Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-1 To VGK

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Can't wait for him to win the Smythe and multiple cups whereever he ends up.

I only saw the first and part of the second but it was an awful game by us. Again though, we did this last year as well. First 10 games are a write off. If they are playing like this at game 20 then I think we have a reason to be concerned and IMO management needs to do something.
Give it up already, sick of these GTHL dinosaurs loving on Marner cause they watched him since he was 10 years old. The guys making twice as much as he should because of media narrative and he blows chunks when the going is tough.

Ottawa and Montreal didn't need 10 games to get their legs to blow out bad teams like Arizona with 6 goals. They don't have 40 mil tied up in 4 forwards who can't get it done in any situation. A second line that hasn't even been able to dominate other teams second pair matchup. A worrying trend for more than just this season.

The players blow or the system blows. Nothing to do with the bottom 6 either.
 
x-stats can be interesting but they're historical and irrelevant since accomplishing something is better than almost accomplishing something.

Trying and succeeding is better than trying and failing which is better than not trying.

Using x-stats to excuse failure doesn't change failure into success.

Succeeding of course is the goal.
I leave it up to da actuaries who work in stats as every time I talk to my daughter at Sun life I lose a few days of my life trying to understand it
 
Truly pathetic effort last night. The boys absolutely hung Sammy out to dry. It should have been 10-bagel for the knights. What an absolute waste of good goaltending. I really hope you east coasters didn't stay up to watch that shit.

Clearly the boys were thinking about their plans for the night, nursing a hangover from the night prior, or both. Getting to stay in Veggy until Wednesday after arriving on Saturday was always a scheduled green light. I know last night was painful for those who watched, but hopefully that effort was because they are having too much fun in Vegas.

I know we all think these guys are professional's and that they should be on the ball all the time, but being in Vegas from Saturday night to Wednesday was always going to be a time for these guys. We obviously took the bad from it last night, but I firmly believe a trip like this will bring the group closer in the end. You gotta have fun as a team if you want to win it all. Unfortunately this is just the byproduct of playing guilty sometimes.

On to the next one

We did the same shit game 4 vs Tampa when we decided not to play and Matthews had a ridiculous tan on the bench
 
Leafs are going to be in tough. Currently 6th in division with Tampa on their heels….
 
Give it up already, sick of these GTHL dinosaurs loving on Marner cause they watched him since he was 10 years old. The guys making twice as much as he should because of media narrative and he blows chunks when the going is tough.

Ottawa and Montreal didn't need 10 games to get their legs to blow out bad teams like Arizona with 6 goals. They don't have 40 mil tied up in 4 forwards who can't get it done in any situation. A second line that hasn't even been able to dominate other teams second pair matchup. A worrying trend for more than just this season.

The players blow or the system blows. Nothing to do with the bottom 6 either.

Hot take narrative, blasting on a media narrative. Ironic.
 
Getting some bad vibes nice and early this season.

I am not sure playoffs are a given like we think they are. Florida, Tampa, Buffalo and Ottawa are all going to be right there. Detroit may also make some noise.

We've lost our talent advantage that carried us so long. It's pretty obvious that as Matthews and Marner go, so does the whole team.
 
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Well, funny enough, while everybody is panicking over our skaters, the fact that we have the 3rd best goalie in the league so far has kinda flown under the radar.
True but I don't think that will last. Samsonov had a lot of hot and cold stretches with Washington. Ideally the skaters will get it together and it won't matter, but their underlying numbers are pretty mediocre
 
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x-stats can be interesting but they're historical and irrelevant since accomplishing something is better than almost accomplishing something.

Trying and succeeding is better than trying and failing which is better than not trying.

Using x-stats to excuse failure doesn't change failure into success.

Succeeding of course is the goal.
I wish I knew how they input data to come up with an X stat.

For e.g., how dId they record the Amadio goal? Ive tried to keep up with some games on natural stattrick and how they interpreted plays did not jive with what I saw. Especially, high danger scoring chances were recorded but literally there was no way the puck was ever going in the net
 
Who holds more trade value between Rielly and Chychrun?

That's the question right?

Since the beginning of the 2018-19 season, Rielly has 169 points to Chychrun's 108. Mo's played 273 games Chych 219. Rielly is signed longer, Chych has the cheaper contract.

More points, more durable, longer contract... vs. Cheaper contract and perceived future growth on a better team.
 
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Nobody uses expected stats to excuse failure. People utilize expected stats to identify the reasons for the failure. Understanding the reasons for failure assists in succeeding in the future.

When someone uses expected stats to say the team played better than their results that doesn't really provide room for improvement, it just permits the use of bad luck as an excuse.

"Do better!"

"My expected results say I should have done better so I don't have to change anything."
 
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When someone uses expected stats to say the team played better than their results that doesn't really provide room for improvement, it just permits the use of bad luck as an excuse.
Expected stats can be utilized to identify which portion of the team was lacking - offense, defense, goaltender, and by extension, which players you may need to work with, switch out, etc. It can also help you identify what type of issue it was to develop strategies against it, and the extents to which the inherent randomness of hockey came into play vs. just bad play.
 
We have a GM who goes to the grocery store with his budget and buys 4 fillet minion steaks and 16 cans of spaghetti for suppers. He doesn't have enough experience to cook the fillets properly so 2 of the 4 nights he eats fillet they are awful. All the canned spaghetti he bought isn't enough to save a meal.
 
That's the question right?

Since the beginning of the 2018-19 season, Rielly has 169 points to Chychrun's 108. Mo's played 273 games Chych 219. Rielly is signed longer, Chych has the cheaper contract.

More points, more durable, longer contract... vs. Cheaper contract and perceived future growth on a better team.

I'd make the trade, straight up- but I'm not sure Arizona would. I think we're paying too much for Rielly.
 
Samsonov is Mr. October and this loss was his 1st October loss in regulation time in a game he started in his entire career.

He had a few OT losses but otherwise he starts the new seasons on fire and the same is happening here in Toronto coming in strong out of the gate.

He certainly held Leafs in that game yesterday or it would have been a blowout.
 
Reilly is not going anywhere (just signed extension, for one).

He's still a valuable player, not to mention the fact that he jumped in after that hit on Robertson - that's a guy this team needs more of. Sure his defensive play has fallen off, so that needs to be addressed incl. managing his zone starts (though more difficult with Muzzin out) but for now, he's what we've got and like most of the rest of the team he simply has to be better.

Samsonov is Mr. October and this loss was his 1st October loss in regulation time in a game he started in his entire career.

The Maple Leafs: Where goalie streaks and careers go to die.
 
When someone uses expected stats to say the team played better than their results that doesn't really provide room for improvement, it just permits the use of bad luck as an excuse.

"Do better!"

"My expected results say I should have done better so I don't have to change anything."

If you choose to use it as an excuse to not address problem areas, that is the hallmark of a loser org.

If you use it to address what is working, but you are not getting the results, and try to find the way to get the results you want, that is the hallmark of a winning org. There are indeed times, when everything is working, but you didn't get the win, that you need to keep doing what you are... but then, if you look at the stats, you will also probably find out why you didn't win.

For example, Matthews has 33 shots. Getting shots is good. If he's shooting at his normal expected success rate, he has 5-6 goals, and our team is probably winning more games. His xGF is indeed much higher than his actual. So the question then becomes, what is going on, that has him shooting at 3%, and not 16.2%, and how do we address that? Overall that line is playing well, xGF vs. xGA is quite positive, getting chances... just not finishing.. so yes, it can help.

Another example... Samsanov has played above what we would think he's capable of..... he's saved our butts a bit at times... that could easily swing the other way too, so we better address our D issues before that happens, or we are truly in trouble.

We've all seen, and posted when the team is winning, but we know that they shouldn't... if you look at the stats, they likely agree that we shouldn't be winning... sometimes it's the other way around too...

Of course, there is far more to winning and losing, than what we are talking about here too... but you shouldn't use any one stat to be a definitive answer, because sport, individuals are more complex... but having more info, is never a bad thing either. (if you do something with it, that helps achieve your target goals)

Reilly is not going anywhere (just signed extension, for one).

He's still a valuable player, not to mention the fact that he jumped in after that hit on Robertson - that's a guy this team needs more of. Sure his defensive play has fallen off, so that needs to be addressed incl. managing his zone starts (though more difficult with Muzzin out) but for now, he's what we've got and like most of the rest of the team he simply has to be better.


...and that's the problem. Valuing a player, more than the team.
 
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True but I don't think that will last. Samsonov had a lot of hot and cold stretches with Washington. Ideally the skaters will get it together and it won't matter, but their underlying numbers are pretty mediocre
Samsonov will likely came back to earth a bit, but there's even more reason to believe that the rest of the team will come back to life. Our underlying numbers in this game were horrible, but overall on the season they're not that bad, and I don't think anybody thinks we're playing at our potential yet.

Point was that goalie was our biggest area of concern by far, and funny enough, that's the area that's going very well.
 
Expected stats can be utilized to identify which portion of the team was lacking - offense, defense, goaltender, and by extension, which players you may need to work with, switch out, etc. It can also help you identify what type of issue it was to develop strategies against it, and the extents to which the inherent randomness of hockey came into play vs. just bad play.
inherent randomness of hockey came into play

See that's where it is a built in excuse.

I don't have to change what I'm doing, it was just randomness.
 
Not trying to be doom and gloom'r - when we lose.

But this team hasn't given me any confidence that there won't be another bipolar, inconsistent playoffs...

I think we are basically the same team as last year with a few deck chairs shuffled. The main difference is that a few people (Matthews/Marner/Rielly) have not started as hot. We also have a few injuries (Muzzin/Lily) that would help. With that said, I think going into the off season with this team as is is probably unlikely. I don't think Dubas/Keefe would roll the dice like this.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander

^^^Assuming Robertson can keep it together, I think the top 6 is in good shape. The bottom 6 needs to get ironed out and find some chemistry and a way to chip in more I think.

Kerfoot - Trade for a REAL 3C - Trade for a Real 3W
Engvall - Kampf - Jarnkrok

Rielly - Brodie
Gio - Lily
Muzzin - Sandin

^^^I think when defense is healthy we are probably in good shape. With Benn and Mete as 7-8 we can probably look to make Holl disappear. I think if Muzzin can get healthy, Leafs need to think about load managing him a bit to get him through the season. In the playoffs he can be a difference maker I feel like.

Goaltending is not any worse then last year IMO. If Murray can stay healthy to be a 1B/backup and Samsanov can keep going, they are probably good enough.
 
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We have a GM who goes to the grocery store with his budget and buys 4 fillet minion steaks and 16 cans of spaghetti for suppers. He doesn't have enough experience to cook the fillets properly so 2 of the 4 nights he eats fillet they are awful. All the canned spaghetti he bought isn't enough to save a meal.
But it's Chef Boyardee!
 

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