Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-1 To VGK

[Mess]

He is fine he retuned 10 minutes later and played the rest of the game.

Just took a friendly fire shot right in the knee.

 

[ULF_55]

But that isn't how it is used, or looked at.

It is used that way on this site.

Matthews doesn't have to change anything because his expected results are good.

Again, I didn't see last nights game, but the games I've seen haven't shown a positive light on what I've witnessed from Matthews. He's shooting yes, but they just look like shots than anyone can take. So because there was a shot there was an expectation it could go in.

I questioned earlier whether or not he's 100%.

 

[ACC1224]

Imagine watching that garbage and the only criticism you can find is Clifford and Simmonds played.

 

[Dekes For Days]

inherent randomness of hockey came into play
See that's where it is a built in excuse.

An excuse is not the purpose, but there's no benefit to ignoring the fact that there is a certain level of inherent randomness in hockey outcomes. And if a disparity becomes the trend, you probably have a goalie problem.

 

[rdogg]

I'm really starting to think the Leafs will miss the playoffs this year. They're average at best, and the previous bottom feeders of the conference are starting to turn things around.

 

[IPS]

As I've said in the trade thread.. I see two main problems. (Matty's issue will fix itself).

1. Muzzin was our shutdown D pair... He made Holl look like a passable second liner, and NHLer... without Muzzin, Holl isn't the former, and not sure he's the latter.

2. Brodie doesn't seem capable of babysitting Rielly anymore. Morgan has never been good defensively, might have actually gotten worse. I don't know if that's a Brodie problem, or Morgan problem.

I'm not even sure how this gets fixed if Muzzin is done. It would be an extremely tough, and unpopular move, but I feel like Mo and Holl should go, bring in Chych to replace Mo and then a Murphy/Mayfield for a new shutdown pairing...

Regarding #2, this is simply what happens when you have to play Rielly against top competition. He can't handle it. It's definitely not a TJ Brodie problem, he's actually been fine. It appears teams target Rielly's side because of how bad he is on straight man-to-man defense.

Muzzin is the best defensive player on the team who also happened to be a physical beast. There is nobody on the organization who can replicate what he brings. The whole team is going to suffer with his absence just like it did last year.

Acquire a D who can comfortably play against top competition alongside Brodie, find another cheap Lyubushkin type to pair with Rielly and play them against lesser competition, and wait until Liljegren returns to reunite the Gio-Lilly pairing.

We have virtually no cap flexiblity and this is about the best thing we can do to improve the D.

 

[Fogelhund]

It is used that way on this site.

Matthews doesn't have to change anything because his expected results are good.

Again, I didn't see last nights game, but the games I've seen haven't shown a positive light on what I've witnessed from Matthews. He's shooting yes, but they just look like shots than anyone can take. So because there was a shot there was an expectation it could go in.

I questioned earlier whether or not he's 100%.

I wonder the same (highlighted). @JT AM da real deal suggests maybe he isn't in great shape.

We don't know those answers. I've seen a number of opportunities, where last year he'd bury the shot. He's not this year. He's not doing well in the faceoffs. Is his wonky wrist acting up? I don't know.

Some people on this site may use stats as such, but just because some do, without looking at other things, doesn't invalidate their usefulness. There is more to it... as there should be.

 

[Fogelhund]

Regarding #2, this is simply what happens when you have to play Rielly against top competition. He can't handle it. It's definitely not a TJ Brodie problem, he's actually been fine. It appears teams target Rielly's side because of how bad he is on straight man-to-man defense.

Muzzin is the best defensive player on the team who also happened to be a physical beast. There is nobody on the organization who can replicate what he brings. The whole team is going to suffer with his absence just like it did last year.

Acquire a D who can comfortably play against top competition alongside Brodie, find another cheap Lyubushkin type to pair with Rielly and play them against lesser competition, and wait until Liljegren returns to reunite the Gio-Lilly pairing.

We have virtually no cap flexiblity and this is about the best thing we can do to improve the D.

Reasonable well thought out response. Perhaps if we do, and can replace Muzzin (if needed), these issues **might** go away. **If** Muzzin is done, and permanently LTIR'd, we could afford under the cap a Murphy/Mayfield/

 

[Mess]

I'm really starting to think the Leafs will miss the playoffs this year. They're average at best, and the previous bottom feeders of the conference are starting to turn things around.

The gap between the have (playoff teams) and have-nots (non playoff teams is certainly closing.

The teams below the Leafs have been refuelling with high draft picks the past few years and starting to impact the top teams ..

If the playoffs started today the Leafs would not be in them.

 

[The Podium]

Imagine watching that garbage and the only criticism you can find is Clifford and Simmonds played.

The team obviously didn’t play well, but Clifford especially hasn’t proven to provide any positive value to this team in over a year. Have NAK or ZAR been good this season? No, however both thus far have provided more than Clifford.

NAK, for example, had 11 goals in 67 games last season, that’s more than Clifford’s last 3 seasons combined (144 GP).

Roster decisions made from an intangible belief, that hasn’t been consistently proven true, is hurting the team more than it is helping. Irrespective of the fact that the rest of the team needs to be better.

Not to mention my comment was tongue in cheek anyway. Obviously there are bigger concerns right now than the 4th line.

 

[Gabriel426]

I missed the game and I think they didn’t played well at all. Still I don’t think we need to start scoreboard watching and worrying about the standing just yet.

 

[KingsHockey24]

like I mean how you can point the blame on Clifford and everyone else gets a pass, wow that pushing some weird agenda. Clifford played 6 minutes and change lmao!

And in those 6 minutes he and Simmer were leading the way with hits. Like what're your expectations for your 4th liners.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The team obviously didn’t play well, but Clifford especially hasn’t proven to provide any positive value to this team in over a year. Have NAK or ZAR been good this season? No, however both thus far have provided more than Clifford.

NAK, for example, had 11 goals in 67 games last season, that’s more than Clifford’s last 3 seasons combined (144 GP).

Roster decisions made from an intangible belief, that hasn’t been consistently proven true, is hurting the team more than it is helping. Irrespective of the fact that the rest of the team needs to be better.

Not to mention my comment was tongue in cheek anyway. Obviously there are bigger concerns right now than the 4th line.

Reality is the team doesn't have the horses to win most nights when AM and MM don't produce.

We built a team around 4 cornerstones. The rest has minimal impact on our outcomes.

 

[CelticDruid]

Marner played 26 mins last night and was invisible

 

[Niagara Bill]

Kerfoot's selfish penalties are killing us. Jarnkrok is legitimately useless. There's actually no point of him. Kyle's genius coming into play again. All these people saying we have so much depth are out to lunch.

We're probably the most shallow in the division. The bottom 6 sums Kyle up really well. No rhyme nor reason. Just bargain big players spewing out from all directions.

What an absolute terrible job of constructing a roster.

Mason Marchment for Smurf Malgin. What a true find Malgin is, what a steal. Where would be be without him.
And that Mete...wow, how did the rest of the NHL miss him. And he is the best of the Marlie dmen.

 

[Mess]

The team obviously didn’t play well, but Clifford especially hasn’t proven to provide any positive value to this team in over a year. Have NAK or ZAR been good this season? No, however both thus far have provided more than Clifford.

NAK, for example, had 11 goals in 67 games last season, that’s more than Clifford’s last 3 seasons combined (144 GP).

Roster decisions made from an intangible belief, that hasn’t been consistently proven true, is hurting the team more than it is helping. Irrespective of the fact that the rest of the team needs to be better.

Not to mention my comment was tongue in cheek anyway. Obviously there are bigger concerns right now than the 4th line.

Nicolas Aube-Kubel has played 5 games posting 0-0-0 points with -2 +/- & 4 Pims & ATOI/G = 9 minutes and has registered 1 shot on goal.

 

[The Podium]

Nicolas Aube-Kubel has played 5 games posting 0-0-0 points with -2 +/- & 4 Pims & ATOI/G = 9 minutes and has registered 1 shot on goal.

Exactly… 5 games

 

[egd27]

Understanding the reasons for failure assists in succeeding in the future.

and yet.............

 

[Blanche Blanche]

I'm really starting to think the Leafs will miss the playoffs this year. They're average at best, and the previous bottom feeders of the conference are starting to turn things around.

I’ll wait another 10 games or so before I make my mind up. But holy crap this can be a reality so quickly.

Dubas is crappping his trousers

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Reality is the team doesn't have the horses to win most nights when AM and MM don't produce.

We built a team around 4 cornerstones. The rest has minimal impact on our outcomes.

And those 4 cornerstones are now on their way to 30 years old.

Seems like Dubas is more concerned with the team he's trying to build for 2026 than care about what he has now, which is funny because he also trades his 1st rounders for garbage which means his 2026 team will suck from view of well balanced.

All these posts I am seeing prove we are too far away from fixing holes and need to go all in with the This Is Sparta small elite group and trade the 2026 lottery team (i dont actually mean its a lottery team, just an insult that hes botching this core like they dont even exist) to win now with this core.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

One of the worst games of Rielly’s career.

After watching the game I PVR'd this morning, I could not believe how truly horrendous Rielly was. No regard for playing defence, out of position up ice, not boxing out around the crease, etc, just brutal. Defence overall was just awful.

Kerfoot with another dumb penalty in the offensive zone. He's not the brightest when he plays. He's also part of that third line that has contributed virtually nothing to the team's offence.

We need scoring from someone other than the 2nd line. The 1st line tried, but I think Matthews is trying too hard, it's going to come. I'm more concerned about Marner's demeanour on the ice. As for the 4th line, aside from Kampf, that line with Clifford on it is no better than the line with the hyphen twins on it.

On the positive side, Samsonov was really good. Keeping Vegas to only 3 goals with how that defence played is not easy.

 

[Mess]

Exactly… 5 games

Kyle Clifford has played 2 games posting 0-1-1 points with +1 +/- & 2 Pims & ATOI/G = 7:54 minutes and has registered 2 shot on goal.

Exactly .. 2 games and been better than NAK in 5 games in almost every category.

Nicolas Aube-Kubel has played 5 games posting 0-0-0 points with -2 +/- & 4 Pims & ATOI/G = 9:00 minutes and has registered 1 shot on goal.
Zach Aston-Reese . has played 6 games posting 0-0-0 points with -3 +/- & 2 Pims & ATOI/G = 9:22 minutes and has registered 2 shot on goal.
Pierre Engvall .......... has played 6 games posting 0-0-0 points with -2 +/- & 2 Pims & ATOI/G = 11:42 minutes and has registered 7 shot on goal.
Denis Malgin .......... has played 4 games posting 1-0-1 points with +2 +/- & 2 Pims & ATOI/G = 11:17 minutes and has registered 2 shot on goal.

What exactly are the Leafs missing out on by playing Clifford at the expense of players like these & NAK ?

Dubas spent the summer trying to rebuild the bottom 6 forwards and Adam Gaudette cleared waivers and is in the AHL and Nicolas Aube-Kubel, Zach Aston-Reese, Denis Malgin are all in the pressbox and we're only at game #7. Dubas also resigned Simmonds and Clifford and despite both tough guys already clearing waivers unclaimed they appear to be providing more then the new recruits.

 

[IPS]

The team obviously didn’t play well, but Clifford especially hasn’t proven to provide any positive value to this team in over a year. Have NAK or ZAR been good this season? No, however both thus far have provided more than Clifford.

NAK, for example, had 11 goals in 67 games last season, that’s more than Clifford’s last 3 seasons combined (144 GP).

Roster decisions made from an intangible belief, that hasn’t been consistently proven true, is hurting the team more than it is helping. Irrespective of the fact that the rest of the team needs to be better.

Not to mention my comment was tongue in cheek anyway. Obviously there are bigger concerns right now than the 4th line.

Nobody's talking about who's provided more value over the last year.

They're talking about last night's game, just like the thread is for.

Singling out Clifford after how the whole team played last night reeks of agenda pushing.

 

[Mess]

Reality is the team doesn't have the horses to win most nights when AM and MM don't produce.

We built a team around 4 cornerstones. The rest has minimal impact on our outcomes.

During the regular season you can get away with it enough to qualify for the playoffs, but that point of yours really rings true come playoff time, where when you lose you go home.

When people claim the Leafs are flawed because they have too much Cap in too few players this is exactly what they're talking about.!!!!

All any team needs to really do is focus on 4 Leaf forwards and minimize or play them even and the Leafs will struggle for wins.

Its what Keefe was eluding to with his comment about Leafs having star players and when they don't show up its tough sledding even against weak non playoff teams without star players. His comment was exactly your point here, as he was speaking to those very same 4 players.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I wonder the same (highlighted). @JT AM da real deal suggests maybe he isn't in great shape.

We don't know those answers. I've seen a number of opportunities, where last year he'd bury the shot. He's not this year. He's not doing well in the faceoffs. Is his wonky wrist acting up? I don't know.

Some people on this site may use stats as such, but just because some do, without looking at other things, doesn't invalidate their usefulness. There is more to it... as there should be.

It won't come up in media unless Leafs want it too which they don't (contract, feelings, etc) .. and now they are pumping up JT's tires in media (which is really on Willy's back) .. I figure another week of games and practices and he should be fine again .. da Leafs are between a rock and a hard place with Matty .. but to me it speaks to his professional character .. yes he is one of best players in game when he is fit and not injured but when you are da teams best player and you show up to camp like a blimp it sends a loud message to your team mates .. I would be looking to trade him to Oil land or Avs land straight up if that opportunity arose .. if not one of those 2 guys forget it no interest in losing any other deal .. it is possible we expect too much of our players as Canadians where hockey is our religion .. as a season ticket holder and sponsor of team i find it very frustrating to watch now .. you guys can blame depth or blame Mitch or blame Keefer and/or his lines but no pro team is winning when their best player is da 10,000 pound gorilla in da room