Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

[Cobra777]

That's what we're saying. That there is an ongoing problem in this city in relation to its hockey team.

Because no matter what year it is, or who is playing on the roster, the results ends up the same, they blow these game 7s or they just blow these entire series. Been going on close to 10 years now. Insert a series victory or two in there and maybe everyone's suspicions drops. But when the same thing happens over and over again with totally different players over the years, then the logical conclusion is that there's a bigger problem at hand. Is it the media? The fans? Team management? Are they blowing these games or throwing these games?

Mabe someone needs to go dig up Ballards coffin and punt an 80 yard field goal with it to break its curse because as you stated its the same miserable script decade after decade, yr. after yr., management after management, player after player you just can't make this stuff up. We could have a team full of Marios, Gretzky's, Dionnes, Yzerman's, Saciks, Gilmours and Clarks etc. mixed with premier defenceman and they would probably get hit by a bus on their way to our Stanley cup final to take it away from us. I seriously have never seen so much freakin plava when it comes to this franchise from missed call in 93 to nuclear cheap polyester suit meltdowns through out the ages and ala 2013 and the past 3 or 4 seasons right to this expletive series weather its key injuries at crucial times in present and many yrs. gone by or just some form of unsightly ugliness to even deny a 1 round victory is freaking unexplainable and unfathomable. Dammit even if you flipped a coin 10 times your bound to get one heads but we keep getting *&^ tails.

We have had players that played for our team who were unsuccessful then dealt become good players over the yrs. and good players from other teams come here and hit a mental wall or players we move come to play us and everyone of them scores a freakin goal in that game just to face wash us.

 

[Rokker]

The playoff results are indisputable and unacceptable. I agree with you. However, I don't think the culture is toxic. I think the entire organization lacks experience and leadership, starting at the top. Shanny himself is a new executive. Dubas and Keefe had zero NHL experience. The young core lacked experience and never accomplished anything in the NHL. Even Tavares -- while a great player -- never won squat in the NHL.

Because of that, Dubas was forced to bring in multiple ex-captains and leaders. The problem -- due to being cap-strapped, the only players he could afford were well past their prime and could only pay dividends in the locker room, not so much on the ice.

The only thing that stinks is the team's reluctance to rebalance the core. That's why a Marner for Jones is crucial.

I agree with you about the goalies, but legit #1's don't grow on trees and they're inconsistent at best. I mean, look at Vegas -- one year Fleury is great, then then he struggles and they bring in Lehner. Then they want to trade Fleury. Then Lehner struggles and they go back to Fleury and he's great again. Look at Carter Hart in Philly - went from hero to zero in 12 months. Unless you're a Vasilevskiy, Helle or Price, you are a wild card. I don't think a platoon of Andersen-Campbell will "win us a Cup" but they also won't "lose us a Cup" if everything else is going right. The reality is, if Matthews and Marner combined for 4 goals instead of 1, we're likely playing Winnipeg on Wed.

Yes, I agree with you on Dubas and his "playoff ready" moves -- and yes, we fell short again.

I want changes too but I don't want scorched earth. Ultimately, Shanny is the most accountable. But so is Dubas and the young core.

All fair takes, well said.

Its time for a shakeup.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Hockey's a physical, team-oriented game, my friend - - ESPECIALLY in the playoffs. Unless you're talking about women's hockey?

You need a good system with buy-in from everyone and a willingness to make the physical sacrifices. That's what won 25 years ago, that's what still wins today. Pretty sure that's what will win 25 years from now.

Toronto didn't have it, and that's why they're one-and-done. Again.

If you think the game hasn't changed in 25 years, then I don't know what to say. Same if you think that "physicality" is the reason why the Leafs do not have success. Our "physical" players were useless in this series, and were useless in our last series.

You want to win, get multi-dimensional skill with IQ and the ability to control possession. See what Matthews did during the regular season, what Hyman does on a regular basis, or even what Nylander and Kerfoot brought to the table in this playoff series... That will win Cups.

Making low IQ plays like Sandin and Marner. Failing to put the puck in the net when you have those opportunities to score (like a bunch of people). Giving up weak goals (Andersen and occasionally Campbell). That will cause you to lose.

The common factor is that a lot of this has very little to do with physicality. In fact, our pursuit for physicality likely cost us this series. If the Leafs chose to use more skilled players than Thornton, Simmonds, and Foligno, that may have been the difference in this series. If the Leafs chose to use Dermott instead of Sandin the entire time, that may have been the difference. There wasn't much that needed to go our way to put away Montreal in 4 or 5 games. We just had a lot of low IQ players out there.

 

[Rokker]

Let's be honest - - there's not a chance in hell Fred will be back with the Leafs next year. And every Leaf fan should be rejoicing that he's gone.

Goaltending is definitely not the reason Toronto lost this series. Campbell played WAY better than Fred ever did. And that $5M in cap space is desperately needed.

Having a starting goalie at only $1.6M is a huge advantage.

Agreed, if he can get you the W that counts.

It wasn't his fault by any means tonight, but I don't feel like he instilled the same type of confidence that Price did with his group.

Thats the difference for me. But im fine with him in a tandem for now.

Agreed, it wont be with Freddy.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Still can’t believe how pathetic these guys are

 

[Arzak]

ok checking again few hours later. Did we really blew up 3- 1 series lead on HABS ? I mean Habs ? really ? Team with Price and nobody...I just watched 7 games and I guess Habs other star was Koskiniemi ? I dunno, beaten by team of third liners...

 

[Arzak]

Still can’t believe how pathetic these guys are

Even pathetic should be enough to not lose three in a row...

 

[ZEBROA]

They should hire us as coach next year. Crowdsourced Coach by Torontos Hfboard. Could not get worse.

Then this year Nylander would have been on pp1, got more time. Spezza got more time. No Thornton . Split or stacked first line. Not shure if Sandin would play . Etc...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Also, tons of successful organizations work their employees to death with unattainable standards. The top talent will still go to those places (look at top law firms, hedge funds or investment banks).

Sure, overpay them. They will be miserable, but they will put up with it for a few years to make a nice pay cheque and have some prestige on their resume until they ultimately leave for a better organization that is even more successful. Those companies' organizational structures are actually a complete mess and they have a really high turnover rate... Some of them pay consulting companies like Deloitte millions of dollars to marginally fix them and get away from that culture. Others just don't care because they are fine with cycling through employees every 2 or 3 years.

I mean if you are fine with top talent walking out the door regularly and figuring out how to replace them, then it works well. Most companies find that to be extremely expensive and often not worthwhile.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Marner: "Ya Obviously looks like we didn't show up again"

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Consistently dramatically out drafting your picks isn't a reliable model. Let's see 2019's players actually do something in the NHL before we start saying its way better, 3 years ago people were just as excited about guys like Grundstrom and Woll.

Maximizing your risk vs. reward ratio relative to pick position is a fairly straight forward method to having very successful drafts (i.e. getting good quality NHLers). It's fairly straight forward.

What goes wonky is that teams pick player profiles that have had very little, if any, success in the NHL. It's as though they ignore history even though it often repeats itself.

Do that and maximize the ratio vs. draft position and you are going to be a good drafting team. Whether you are a good developmental team will determine if you bring a lot of guys you draft into the NHL.

 

[Kypdurron]

I know you guys are mad, but please be respectful to the players... They are human beings, the personnal attacks and all the "piece of shit" comment is uncalled for.

Dont know if you know this, but one of Montreal most skilled player (Jo Drouin) left the team because of a depression. Rumor has it that it was because off all the personnal attacks he received on social media. Comments a bit like the one we are seeing here.

Just never forget it is just a game and they are human beings

 

[Raging Bull]

Gets easier to take every year. Don't know why anyone expected ant different.

 

[Anthrax442]

Gets easier to take every year. Don't know why anyone expected ant different.

Im pretty much numb at this point.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Gets easier to take every year. Don't know why anyone expected ant different.

Yep, after it went to Game 7 not sure how anyone could have expected a Leaf win!

 

[MSZ]

I know you guys are mad, but please be respectful to the players... They are human beings, the personnal attacks and all the "piece of shit" comment is uncalled for.

Dont know if you know this, but one of Montreal most skilled player (Jo Drouin) left the team because of a depression. Rumor has it that it was because off all the personnal attacks he received on social media. Comments a bit like the one we are seeing here.

Just never forget it is just a game and they are human beings

If these professional athletes can't take it, they are mentally weak, which is exactly the reason why the Leafs lost year after year with this core.

 

[lebdafor norris]

I know you guys are mad, but please be respectful to the players... They are human beings, the personnal attacks and all the "piece of shit" comment is uncalled for.

Dont know if you know this, but one of Montreal most skilled player (Jo Drouin) left the team because of a depression. Rumor has it that it was because off all the personnal attacks he received on social media. Comments a bit like the one we are seeing here.

Just never forget it is just a game and they are human beings

Their is no way anyone can stop one of the largest fanbase in hockey from venting their frustrations on the players in this day and age of social media, especially after Marner's father really did him a disservice by going public with the contract talks (he should have just let the agent do all the greasy talking, that is what they were payed to do).

 

[Blowfish]

Really? I mean, I guess I know what you're saying, but Lou did build a juggernaut in NJ that was renowned for it's defensive play, work ethic, compete level and culture. He truly turned the Devils from a laughing stock into a world-class, Cup-winning organization. What often gets overlooked on those "trapping" NJ clubs was their incredible culture -- the Devils had an identity -- and Lou was the architect.

After the Leafs, he immediately goes to a struggling Islanders organization (who just saw Tavares leave for nothing) and he manages to bring in, perhaps, the best coach in the world. Immediately, he leads the Isles to their best two seasons in recent history, and he convinces their top player (Barzal) to give him a hometown discount, signing a multiple year deal for $7 million. This was right after Philly paid Kevin Hayes $7.5 million lol. Under two years of Lou so far, the Islanders made it to the Final 4 last year and are tied 1-1 with Boston in the 2nd round this year. Look at their roster on paper compared to ours. Lou is a genius when it comes to culture.

I think the above is plenty of tangible evidence -- it's real life NHL results -- unlike anything Dubas can claim... or Shanny as an executive for that matter.

IMO the biggest problem with Lou in Toronto is that Shanny and Dubas were always involved in what he wanted to do, and that never works.

this

 

[forecheck]

If this team was owned by an individual and not a "Board" Then these clowns running this team would have been shipped out last year when they didnt even qualify for the playoffs - ENOUGH of this!

 

[Conan]

Just think the knee that knocked out JT is the same knee that scored the game winning goal to knock out the whole team

 

[lebdafor norris]

Im pretty much numb at this point.

Lets be honest, that feeling for the Leafs will be with the fanbase for a while. They can win the president trophy next season, but it'll be hard to maintain a positive outlook until they shown us they can beat any team, whether that be an actual contender like Tampa or Boston or a mere bubble team like the Habs and CBJ, in a 7 game playoff series.

 

[forecheck]

Nathan Mackinnon - 6.3 mill
Marner- 10.9
Mathews - 11

Can you say MISMANAGEMENT

 

[Oilers in NS]

We're 0-5 in our last 5 playoff series.

Thats a toxic culture to me. Something stinks.

Agreed on Marner for Jones. Would be a fantastic get, and would absolutely propel Rielly.

Do not think a Freddy/Jack Campbell gets it done next year though. This team needs a stud who can handle the pressure at all costs

Jack played well. But he didn't win. Not blaming him... But if he stole this series we would be saying just that.

Dubas made a lot of changes last year to get us "Playoff Ready" and went all in this trade deadline. It didn't work, yet again.

Thats why I want change. Who's accountable?

Marner for Jones? Do u mean Seth or his brother. You would have to add big time to get Jones

 

[forecheck]

I have said this for years - I am a Leafs Fan ..but not a fan of this group -= Blow it up Please .

Shanny - Bye bye
Dubas - Bye Bye
Hayley - Bye bye
Keefe- Bye bye
Marner - Bye Bye

Mathews will be gone to LA in 3 years when his contract expires - so may as well cash in on him too .... Another rebuild leafs fans lead by hopefully qualified Hockey People.

 

[Primary Assist]

Fun fact: The Toronto Maple Leafs have never played a game in the month of June. That did not change this year.