Post-Game Talk: Leafs in OT 5-4 (Yes, OT you read that right)

[ToneDog]

Keefe started 64, 37 and 38 in OT. He is definitely reading this board. Funny thing is that some of the suggestions he gets on this board work for him. LOL.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Gee willikers Shanahan. I think Nylander is good.

About to head to the store to hit a sick pump and flirt with the yoga class next door.

 

[Mugzy97]

Leafs top 4 score most of the goals:

Critics: “Too top heavy need more depth scoring!”

Leafs top 4 don’t score enough:

Critics: “Top 4 are paid too much not to produce!”

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Gee willikers Shanahan. I think Nylander is good.

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About to head to the store to hit a sick pump and flirt with the yoga class next door.

I guess that makes Shanahan the main hero?

Shanahan "Up and at them."
"No, it's up and atom."
Shanahan "Up and at them."

 

[MAB1]

He's generally had one better player and one worse player on his wing compared to his time with the Islanders, and while he's played with better players on the PP over the past couple years, he also doesn't have the PP run through him anymore like he did on the Isles. And he's not been worse. Despite moving further out of his prime, his 5v5 P/60 increased from 2.07 in his last 4 years with the Isles, to 2.26 with the Leafs. On the PP, he's gone from 5.57 P/60 to 6.27 with the Leafs. He's just playing less, because he's not the primary option anymore.

Well, putting aside the fact that you can't just pick and choose which elite players you want... Eichel has a whole 1 point more than Tavares, and Kane has 8 less points, for the record. Heck, even Panarin (who makes even more than Tavares) was basically PPG until a hot streak over the past few games.

1. P/60 stats will increase if you play less, that doesn't mean he hasn't fallen off. If you can seriously sit there and say the Leafs got Isles JT consistently you're lying to yourself.

2. While he doesn't have the pp run through him anymore, he's also not facing top QoC like he was on the Isles, he has the Matthews line to share that load.

3. Kane had 92 points as a 32 year old on a rebuilding Hawks team. None of the forwards I mentioned play with a talent like Marner on their line.

 

[MAB1]

He was also on the ice and doing nothing on both the 5-on-5 goals by Calgary, and coughed up the puck in the slot which almost cost us another.

He won the draw at the end, so he picked up an assist, but he has just one ES point in his last seven games, and only 13 all season.

Careful now, some Leaf fans don't like when you critic JT. Seems more and more like this dude came here to cash in a cheque rather than actually being a superstar.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think a lot of credit needs to go to Liljegren and Sandin. Both have been absolute insane since Muzzin/Rielly and Brodie (now returned) got injured. Justin Holl stepped up his play as well

+1

Careful now, some Leaf fans don't like when you critic JT. Seems more and more like this dude came here to cash in a cheque and raise a family rather than actually being a superstar.

Criticism is fine, but this seems like a bit much. Overall JT has been very good for us, he has played up to at least the level expected of him when he was signed and I see no reason whatsoever to question his effort and level of commitment. I would also say I'm not sure I'd ever have labelled him a superstar. Star yes, superstar not really.

 

[MCR74]

Now that Sutter has cried about the refs, what's the over/under on there being a two part thread about it on the mains?

 

[Dekes For Days]

P/60 stats will increase if you play less

No, they don't.

While he doesn't have the pp run through him anymore, he's also not facing top QoC like he was on the Isles, he has the Matthews line to share that load.

He still receives high quality of competition. QOC differences for elite players tend to be wildly exaggerated, especially in the regular season. That's more of a top-6 vs. 3rd line vs. 4th line thing, or maybe a playoffs thing with a hard-matching coach vs. one who doesn't care much. Being 2nd choice for the most prime offensive situations and having less run through him would hurt him way more than any QOC impacts.

Kane had 92 points as a 32 year old on a rebuilding Hawks team. None of the forwards I mentioned play with a talent like Marner on their line.
Do Panarin and Eichel play with a Marner level forward full time? Nope

So do "Those guys produce no matter what." or not? Because you made that statement, and now you're talking about what they did in the past, or what you think they might do with Marner, and ignoring that the majority of the players you mentioned are producing equal to or less than Tavares, and the other (who makes more than Tavares) was as well up to a week ago. Tavares has not been with Marner "full time" (he played with him 4 years ago and now most of the past ~15 games), and while the other players don't play with a Marner, they also don't play with a rotating cast of Malgin, Robertson, etc.

It sucks that the cap stagnated after we signed him, and he's not in his prime anymore, but he's holding up extremely well into his 30s. Tavares is PPG, he brings a lot of value to this team outside of individual point totals, and the team is winning left and right. Weird time to start complaining about him.

 

[MAB1]

No, they don't.

He still receives high quality of competition. QOC differences for elite players tend to be wildly exaggerated, especially in the regular season. That's more of a top-6 vs. 3rd line vs. 4th line thing, or maybe a playoffs thing with a hard-matching coach vs. one who doesn't care much. Being 2nd choice for the most prime offensive situations and having less run through him would hurt him way more than any QOC impacts.

So do "Those guys produce no matter what." or not? Because you made that statement, and now you're talking about what they did in the past, or what you think they might do with Marner, and ignoring that the majority of the players you mentioned are producing equal to or less than Tavares, and the other (who makes more than Tavares) was as well up to a week ago. Tavares has not been with Marner "full time" (he played with him 4 years ago and now most of the past ~15 games), and while the other players don't play with a Marner, they also don't play with a rotating cast of Malgin, Robertson, etc.

It sucks that the cap stagnated after we signed him, and he's not in his prime anymore, but he's holding up extremely well into his 30s. Tavares is PPG, he brings a lot of value to this team outside of individual point totals, and the team is winning left and right. Weird time to start complaining about him.

1. Yes, on average they do. If you actually look at how that stat is derived it's obvious.

2. Ik you geek out over stats but if you don't think there's a QoC difference coming from the Isles to the Leafs idk what to tell you. It's pretty straightforward. On the Isles, JT would get the Bergeron's of the world, now he doesn't.

3. Those guys do produce no matter what, as evidenced by their numbers at JT's age (I'm comparing them to the age JT is now) vastly outproducing him. My point was those guys do it even without a guy like Marner on their line. Imagine if they did have Marner.

4. The team is winning in spite of him. 31 points in 28 games last year playing with Nylander, exactly ppg this year with Marner and you see no issues?

5. Your act is to give the impression there's very few issues with the Leafs by using select stats, and then when the Leafs flop in the spring you go into hiding and then repeat the whole process the next season.

 

[therealkoho]

Hey its a legit stat. We are also doing well without jarnkrok right? People can read into the stat how they want or find other stats, but I think its worth mentioning considering most would have thought the leafs would be going off a cliff without you know who. Obviously they didn’t and I have my opinions as to why they haven’t

The Maple Leafs have a winning record when 34 is out.

The Leafs conversely have the kind of record that gets you a top ten pick when JT is out.

Perhaps we could package Reilly and AM and send them to San Jose for EK, Logan Couture, a prospect and a 1st.

Just sayin

 

[ULF_55]

9-0-1 without the prodigal son

The missing left winger?

 

[robertmac43]

Nylander had himself a night. Single handily brought me back in fantasy this week lol

 

[therealkoho]

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wow Oklahoma Cowboys I think eh? A 1 or 2 season WHA wonder and Ron Chipperfield awesome

 

[Metroid]

Now that Sutter has cried about the refs, what's the over/under on there being a two part thread about it on the mains?

Hfboards need the traffic/revenue it'll stay up forever.

Leafs run this site too lol

 

[Legion34]

Crazy the pace those teams are on.

Boston on pace for 136 points - on pace for best points of all time (132 is the record)
NJ on pace for 131 points - on pace for 2nd best points of all time
Tor on pace for 119 points - on pace for 12th best points of all time

Perfect time to make my public plea to get Rid of the 3 point game

2 points. Regulation win
1.5 points for ot shootout win. And .5 points for ot shoutout loss.

It keeps the integrity of the 2 point records, incentivizes teams to actually win. Basketball/baseball do half games so we can figure it out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, on average they do.

No, they don't. Certainly not at these ice time levels and discrepancies.

Ik you geek out over stats but if you don't think there's a QoC difference coming from the Isles to the Leafs idk what to tell you.

As somebody with a good understanding of statistics and impacting factors, I know that QOC impacts between elite players are often greatly exaggerated, and they are often used, without evidence, to justify incorrect arguments. Line matching in the regular season isn't nearly as strict as people seem to think (biggest priorities tend to be effectively countering elite players, giving your elite players the prime offensive situations, and sheltering the 4th line), and you're facing a wide variety of teams with different team make-ups (which usually feature the ability to defend against more than one line/elite player) and matchup strategies. Whatever your opponent is trying to do, your team has last change to do the opposite half the time, and being 2nd choice for the most prime offensive situations and having less run through him would hurt him way more than any QOC impacts.

Those guys do produce no matter what, as evidenced by their numbers at JT's age (I'm comparing them to the age JT is now) vastly outproducing him.

Lol. You weren't talking about "at the same age" originally. It was "Those guys produce no matter what.", which then, when you were shown to be wrong, turned into those guys produced sometime in the past, and those guys might produce more if they had Marner and we ignored the other winger. Eichel is in the middle of his prime and scoring at about the same pace, for the record. I don't know why we're talking about these players in the first place. It does no good to cherry pick out other players you wish we had instead and complain that the green grass we didn't have to expend assets to get isn't green enough for you, much less when we're winning.

The team is winning in spite of him.

That is absolutely not true. He's a significant part of the team's success.

Your act is to give the impression there's very few issues with the Leafs by using select stats, and then when the Leafs flop in the spring you go into hiding and then repeat the whole process the next season.

Everything you said there is wrong. The only thing I do is discuss the facts. The fact is that there are relatively few issues with the Leafs. We are one of the best teams in the league, and have been for some time now. I do not use select stats. I use a wider variety of stats than anybody in this forum, and have extensively justified, supported, and explained their use. The Leafs have never "flopped" in the spring. They have lost series that go to the limit, for reasons entirely different than what you seem to think. And I've never gone into hiding. I've always been here throughout the summer, listening to and disproving the ridiculous narratives that get thrown around.

 

[ACC1224]

I knew this was going to be an odd night when I witnessed a young lady wearing an Engvall shirt and then 5 minutes later a young lady wearing a Holl shirt. Both of those were firsts for me.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We have 1 regulation loss in the last 20 games, but hey its the Leafs so someone always needs to be on the firing line apparently.

JT was really good early when we needed him, when Matthews and Marner started slow.

I don't understand why some people always have to be upset about something.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We have 1 regulation loss in the last 20 games, but hey its the Leafs so someone always needs to be on the firing line apparently.

JT was really good early when we needed him, when Matthews and Marner started slow.

That's pretty f***ing incredible, the most impressive run I've seen this team have in my 50+ years of watching. Rolling like this with a depleted blueline, amazing stuff. I mean I get it, it doesn't mean anything, playoffs are what counts etc. but geez, on one hand while I sure as hell wouldn't go bragging about our streak on the main boards, I'm enjoying the hell out of it all the same and there's nothing whatsoever to complain about this point.

 

[MCR74]

Hfboards need the traffic/revenue it'll stay up forever.

Leafs run this site too lol

It's a beautiful thing, isn't it?

 

[Auston 316]

That's pretty f***ing incredible, the most impressive run I've seen this team have in my 50+ years of watching. Rolling like this with a depleted blueline, amazing stuff. I mean I get it, it doesn't mean anything, playoffs are what counts etc. but geez, on one hand while I sure as hell wouldn't go bragging about our streak on the main boards, I'm enjoying the hell out of it all the same and there's nothing whatsoever to complain about this point.

The last time I remember a run like this from them was the 2001-2002 season. I believe they were unbeaten in like 16. Won a big New Year’s Eve game against the Canucks to keep the streak going. And hey, they made the conference finals that year

 

[Auston 316]

The last time I remember a run like this from them was the 2001-2002 season. I believe they were unbeaten in like 16. Won a big New Year’s Eve game against the Canucks to keep the streak going. And hey, they made the conference finals that year

I’m just did a little digging and I’m definitely mixing something up lol - the Canucks game was 2002 New Year’s Eve (2002-2003 season) but I do remember a huge unbeaten streak during one of the seasons and they definitely made it out of the first round lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

The last time I remember a run like this from them was the 2001-2002 season. I believe they were unbeaten in like 16. Won a big New Year’s Eve game against the Canucks to keep the streak going. And hey, they made the conference finals that year

So right after I moved to europe and wasn't paying close attention, figures.

 

[mogs]

listening to murray post game, dude doesnt even care. he knows we won, hes not down on himself at all. super refreshing tbh lol.

He sounded exactly like he did after the shutout win. Yep another game, another win. He knows he wasn't amazing but they won, no need to be on the verge of tears. Very refreshing.