Confirmed with Link: Leafs hire new assistant coach Dean Chynoweth

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[Avilaj07]

I have been thinking the same thing regarding Babcock and him not giving in to the “core” forwards. And I think Keefe (and Dubas) are the exact opposite. Makes you wonder who is really in charge.

Couldn't agree more. Seems like Dubas and Keefe are more concerned about not hurting anyone's feelings as opposed to doing what's best for the team. Unfortunately, I don't think that changes unless either both of them are gone or you make a bold move and shake up the roster and show the players that no one is safe and it's not going to be a country club attitude again.

 

[Bluelines]

He brought in Lou for the short-term and Dubas for the medium & long-term.

Im not sure what your point is here.

What does this have to do with the fact that experience level has no correlation with future success in hockey management and coaching? Honestly, it’s not even an arguable thing, so I’m not sure what this dance around goal posts you are doing is.

There’s experienced people who get hired and do really well, and some that do poorly. There’s inexperienced people who get hired and do really well, and some that do poorly.

That’s a matter of fact.

I don't disagree but even the most inexperienced NHL GM's have a pretty deep resume. So in a sense they do have experience, maybe not as a GM of a NHL team. For example Julien Brisbois has 3 years experience as a NHL GM, but has 8 years as an AGM, years as a AHL GM, 8 years with the Montreal Canadiens and so on.

I feel for a NHL GM to be effective, experience or no experience, it's no different than a person who runs a multi-millon dollar retail shop, you have to surround yourself with elite managers. you set the tone and then get the f out of the way and let your people so what they do best. Don't micro manage but be aware of every critical decision and course correct when necessary.

 

[Bluelines]

Couldn't agree more. Seems like Dubas and Keefe are more concerned about not hurting anyone's feelings as opposed to doing what's best for the team. Unfortunately, I don't think that changes unless either both of them are gone or you make a bold move and shake up the roster and show the players that no one is safe and it's not going to be a country club attitude again.

It's a sign of the times, the younger generation has to be treated differently to get the most out of them to be effective. If you try to be Sargent Slaughter with the 20's something crowd, they will just shut down. IMO an early 20's person has the emotional quotient of a person who was in their mid teens in my generation. They mature later and don't handle stress as well. Not saying its better or worse , just different.

 

[Dreakmur]

He brought in Lou for the short-term and Dubas for the medium & long-term.

What does this have to do with the fact that experience level has no correlation with future success in hockey management and coaching?Honestly, it’s not even an arguable thing, so I’m not sure what this dance around goal posts you are doing is.

There’s experienced people who get hired and do really well, and some that do poorly. There’s inexperienced people who get hired and do really well, and some that do poorly.

That’s a matter of fact.

Just because it's possible for anyone to succeed or fail doesn't mean there's no correlation between experience and success.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It's a sign of the times, the younger generation has to be treated differently to get the most out of them to be effective. If you try to be Sargent Slaughter with the 20's something crowd, they will just shut down. IMO an early 20's person has the emotional quotient of a person who was in their mid teens in my generation. They mature later and don't handle stress as well. Not saying its better or worse , just different.

Yes but a true leader always does what is in da best interest of their company/team and that will be respected .. for instance you can't HELP out Freddy cause he is best friends with Matty and you don't want to piss off Matty .. this is not leadership it is being a follower

 

[Mickey Marner]

Hopefully he helps our PK, but only so much you can do with our personnel.

 

[Avilaj07]

It's a sign of the times, the younger generation has to be treated differently to get the most out of them to be effective. If you try to be Sargent Slaughter with the 20's something crowd, they will just shut down. IMO an early 20's person has the emotional quotient of a person who was in their mid teens in my generation. They mature later and don't handle stress as well. Not saying its better or worse , just different.

While I agree that times are definitely different in terms of sensitivity, etc etc, that's still no excuse to ignoring your job as the general manager of the TEAM, not solely on a couple of players. I'm sure it affects other players on the team as well when Dubas and Keefe keep promoting the core 4 and they never suffer any consequences. Being the highest paid players on the team also comes with the highest responsibilities on the team, and if you're not putting in the effort as a leader well then you shouldn't have the salary

 

[Bluelines]

Yes but a true leader always does what is in da best interest of their company/team and that will be respected .. for instance you can't HELP out Freddy cause he is best friends with Matty and you don't want to piss off Matty .. this is not leadership it is being a follower

Agreed, that scenario has been floated around here, seems to be more fan fiction than a real situation.

Assume that scenario is true, if Matty has that attitude, regardless of his talent, he would not be a guy I would want on my team. This is is what a leader is, constantly assessing, will or skill. Is the issue with employee X a will issue (IE they are just lazy, a dick, bad apple, ect) or is it a skill issue ( they don't know what they don't know). If he is just a selfish dick and will pout and be a cancer because buddy is not resigned, buh bye, see ya later, dont unpack your bags ... if it is a skill thing where he does not understand the mechanics of a good team, take the time to teach him.

Edit: Thinking about our executive leadership, something inside me says, you almost need to have a person who is not familiar with Toronto, it's history or it's toxic media. Growing up in Ontario, how can Dubas and Shanny decision making not be affected?

 

[Cor]

Just because it's possible for anyone to succeed or fail doesn't mean there's no correlation between experience and success.

It's exactly what it means.

Tampa Bay was built by a first time GM, and taken over by a first time GM. Brian McLellan? first time GM. Stan Bowman? first time GM. Then you have experienced guys like Lombardi, Ruthorford and Armstrong in there.

and it's the same thing on the other side. There's first time GM's who do awful (Fenton, Chyaka) and some experienced GM's who do end up doing awful despite previous success (Chiarelli, Holland)

 

[egd27]

They were trying to get him fired by not trying during games.

Quit while your sanity is still in tact.

 

[Duffman955]

I thought Haxtol was in charge of defense and PK. He did a pretty dam good job.

Hopefully this new guy can do what he did in carolina

 

[rumman]

Dougie Hamilton is definitely not the answer, butter soft player whose bounced around the league because he doesn’t fit with any team he’s been on.

 

[Bluelines]

Dougie Hamilton is definitely not the answer, butter soft player whose bounced around the league because he doesn’t fit with any team he’s been on.

You're right for his size 6'6, 235lbs he is not a bruiser. What he is, is a really good PP QB a guy who is a danger to score from the point, really good point shot, this makes all our forwards more dangerous on the PP.

Dougie 42pts in 55 games
Morgan 35 points in 55 games,

Although those stats are close, Morgan had the luxury of playing with Matthews and Marner, granted our PP sucked. It's been said before, teams don't fear Morgan's shot, to a certain extent I agree with that statement, so they can cheat towards Mitch and Matthews. Teams would have to pick their poison, Matthews /Marner or Dougie.

The possibility of picking up Dougie and trading Morgan and not losing anything from the back end plus picking up assets in a trade interest me. Big picture I think it makes our team better.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's exactly what it means.

Tampa Bay was built by a first time GM, and taken over by a first time GM. Brian McLellan? first time GM. Stan Bowman? first time GM. Then you have experienced guys like Lombardi, Ruthorford and Armstrong in there.

and it's the same thing on the other side. There's first time GM's who do awful (Fenton, Chyaka) and some experienced GM's who do end up doing awful despite previous success (Chiarelli, Holland)

Chayka never should have been an NHL GM. He's inexperienced from an inexperienced perspective and there is a reason he has not been hired in any capacity since leaving Arizona.

 

[rumman]

You're right for his size 6'6, 235lbs he is not a bruiser. What he is, is a really good PP QB a guy who is a danger to score from the point, really good point shot, this makes all our forwards more dangerous on the PP.

Dougie 42pts in 55 games
Morgan 35 points in 55 games,

Although those stats are close, Morgan had the luxury of playing with Matthews and Marner, granted our PP sucked. It's been said before, teams don't fear Morgan's shot, to a certain extent I agree with that statement, so they can cheat towards Mitch and Matthews. Teams would have to pick their poison, Matthews /Marner or Dougie.

The possibility of picking up Dougie and trading Morgan and not losing anything from the back end plus picking up assets in a trade interest me. Big picture I think it makes our team better.

Disagree completely for the reasons I previously stated. Not only do the Leafs need players with bite, they also need players with good character. I’m not saying the guy’s a cancer, but it’s been said he’s a odd duck at best, not exactly the kind of guy I want not withstanding his PP prowess.

 

[barilko05]

You don't bring a ROOK into da PRIME time NHL gig ..you find a young rock star who learned/won somewhere else and then steal him over with progressive $$$$ based on ongoing performance.. like Detroit did with Stevie Y

The 2004 Boston Red Sox and Theo Epstein (never played a pro game in this life) say hello...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The 2004 Boston Red Sox and Theo Epstein (never played a pro game in this life) say hello...

Miracles can happen anywhere I guess .. but take a look at what he inherited 4 world class superstars, 3 other allstars + pedro wake and lowe .. lots of people could have got lucky with that roster .. but again he did .. i love it baby .. Go Red Sox

Jason Varitek#	31	142	521	451	63	123	31	1	25	85	3	2	51	106	.273	.351	.512	.863	120	231	10	7	5	7	8
2	1B	Kevin Millar	31	148	618	544	83	150	30	1	25	96	3	2	60	108	.276	.348	.472	.820	110	257	14	5	0	9	5
3	2B	Todd Walker*	30	144	647	587	92	166	38	4	13	85	1	1	48	54	.283	.333	.428	.760	95	251	17	1	1	10	0
4	SS	Nomar Garciaparra	29	156	719	658	120	198	37	13	28	105	19	5	39	61	.301	.345	.524	.870	121	345	10	11	1	10	1
5	3B	Bill Mueller#	32	146	600	524	85	171	45	5	19	85	1	4	59	77	.326	.398	.540	.938	140	283	11	7	4	6	2
6	LF	Manny Ramirez	31	154	679	569	117	185	36	1	37	104	3	1	97	94	.325	.427	.587	1.014	160	334	22	8	0	5	28
7	CF	Johnny Damon*	29	145	690	608	103	166	32	6	12	67	30	6	68	74	.273	.345	.405	.750	94	246	5	2	6	6	4
8	RF	Trot Nixon*	29	134	513	441	81	135	24	6	28	87	4	2	65	96	.306	.396	.578	.975	149	255	3	3	1	3	4
9	DH	David Ortiz*	27	128	509	448	79	129	39	2	31	101	0	0	58	83	.288	.369	.592	.961	144	265	9	1	0	2	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[yubbers]

It's a sign of the times, the younger generation has to be treated differently to get the most out of them to be effective. If you try to be Sargent Slaughter with the 20's something crowd, they will just shut down. IMO an early 20's person has the emotional quotient of a person who was in their mid teens in my generation. They mature later and don't handle stress as well. Not saying its better or worse , just different.

Oh it's much worse. Not handling stress well is of no benefit to anyone.

 

[The Podium]

You don't bring a ROOK into da PRIME time NHL gig ..you find a young rock star who learned/won somewhere else and then steal him over with progressive $$$$ based on ongoing performance.. like Detroit did with Stevie Y

Stevie Y technically never won anything, he also quit Tampa for Detroit to be close to his family so Detroit didn’t even steal him…

 

[rumman]

It's a sign of the times, the younger generation has to be treated differently to get the most out of them to be effective. If you try to be Sargent Slaughter with the 20's something crowd, they will just shut down. IMO an early 20's person has the emotional quotient of a person who was in their mid teens in my generation. They mature later and don't handle stress as well. Not saying its better or worse , just different.

hockey, much like society is going to hell in a hand basket because of the above description. Want a sobering thought? These kids will be running things when were old and feeble, when we'll actually need help existing.

 

[The Podium]

hockey, much like society is going to hell in a hand basket because of the above description. Want a sobering thought? These kids will be running things when were old and feeble, when we'll actually need help existing.

I think these kids today are in a better position than previous generation.

Want a sobering thought, the old and feeble have been raped, killed and largely ignored under the guidance of your generation. I hate how sensitive the world has become, but worrying about being taken care of is a strange concern.

Plus, may be an unpopular opinion but the millennials have had it harder than any generation since WW2.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Stevie Y technically never won anything, he also quit Tampa for Detroit to be close to his family so Detroit didn’t even steal him…

Yeah neither did Murray in Anaheim .. always remember one thing in life .. your family is more important than anything else in life .. your career your job your business your house your golf or hockey buddies whatever .. everything else should come 2nd

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You're right for his size 6'6, 235lbs he is not a bruiser. What he is, is a really good PP QB a guy who is a danger to score from the point, really good point shot, this makes all our forwards more dangerous on the PP.

Dougie 42pts in 55 games
Morgan 35 points in 55 games,

Although those stats are close, Morgan had the luxury of playing with Matthews and Marner, granted our PP sucked. It's been said before, teams don't fear Morgan's shot, to a certain extent I agree with that statement, so they can cheat towards Mitch and Matthews. Teams would have to pick their poison, Matthews /Marner or Dougie.

The possibility of picking up Dougie and trading Morgan and not losing anything from the back end plus picking up assets in a trade interest me. Big picture I think it makes our team better.

Teams will still cover Matthews/Mitch before they would cover Dougie shooting from the blueline. It really would not change the dynamic all that much besides seeing our defenseman take twice as many shooting opportunities with only a small uptick in the overall scoring rate. I don't think giving Marner a big PP point shot is going to fix his major short comings, especially one with Hamilton's track record.

If we adjust Hamilton to the amount of shooting opportunities Rielly takes, he would have 14 career PP goals. Rielly has 10. How much more are you willing to pay Hamilton to put up 4 extra PP goals over an 8.5 year NHL career, especially since his shot is one of his most defining features. I don't think he is a better puck mover or skater than Rielly (if anything, he is worse). So you would need to hope he can bring a lot defensively, and there are not major criticisms thrown his way in that regard too.

 

[Brobust]

Dougie Hamilton is definitely not the answer, butter soft player whose bounced around the league because he doesn’t fit with any team he’s been on.

Now I'm all in on Dougie Hamilton.