Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

[inthe6ix]

To me Holl has proven he can play top 4 minutes. He hasn't been flawless but has at least proved he can play there with Muzzin. Dermott has proved he's only a bottom pair D man. You don't protect bottom pair D men in an expansion draft and Dermott will still be on the team after the draft

Agreed, that Muzz/Holl pairing is our shutdown tandem. Not convinced that if Travis was up there with Muzz that it would work half as well.

There has to be more to the McCann / Kerfoot situation.

Hakstol will hopefully get Ronny to do us a solid.

 

[Apex Predator]

Explain why?

This is how I see it:

Seattle gets to pluck someone away for free. That's an asset gone. So you have to look at the McCann situation from a perspective that we're actually trading for Kerfoot / McCann.

If Seattle takes McCann, we paid Hallander and a 7th for a 3C. That's an absolute steal for Kerfoot. If they take Kerfoot, we maintained some depth with an expansion reduced rate to acquire McCann. Kerfoots trade value is higher than McCanns but Hallander and a 7th is still below what McCann is worth.

It's a good trade for Dubas and good expansion maneuvering by the Leafs overall. The vibe I get is the actual professionals feel this way as well.

How are we going to add a potential 40 point depth forward entering his prime, or add another Kerfoot with Hallander + 7th when the expansion draft is over?

Not making the McCann trade is horrible asset management.

Okay you guys convinced me that this is fine and I over reacted.

 

[kb]

throwing assets away is know as "the dubas"

leafs could have easily protected what they want and expose kerfoot anyway...

how far off was hallander to make the NHL anyway? he would have been on his ELC if he could crack the roster in a year or two

You are making no sense again. If Seattle takes Kerfoot, the Leafs still acquired McCann for cheap to, you know, play for the Leafs?.

How is that throwing away assets?

Might wanna go get that checked...

 

[Apex Predator]

Would you have been happy if Hallander was traded to Seattle in place of a player? Worst case scenario is the Leafs essentially lose Hallander in the draft instead of Kerfoot or Dermott. I know people are keen to get rid of Kerfoot, but if we can make the cap work than he's a fine player to keep.

I would have preferred the 7-3-1 keep the extra forward depth.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

To me Holl has proven he can play top 4 minutes. He hasn't been flawless but has at least proved he can play there with Muzzin. Dermott has proved he's only a bottom pair D man. You don't protect bottom pair D men in an expansion draft and Dermott will still be on the team after the draft

It feels to me like some kind of emotional attachment to him by the fanbase. I mean I kind of get it. But he is in his mid 20s at this point and has at no point shown he is anything other then a 3rd pairing left defensemen and arguably our best and most ready prospect fills into literally that exact role.

 

[Gallagbi]

Our defensive depth would not have been "shot" if we lost Dermott or Holl. We would need to sign one guy in UFA to play in our top 6... That is not a big deal.

The Leafs should not be paying Seattle anything. The only side deal that should be in place should be the Leafs receiving an upgraded return on a lesser asset (Engvall or Malgin) for taking on Kerfoot's bonus. Otherwise, let them pick one of McCann, Kerfoot, or Dermott.

Top 4 since Dermott, Lilj, and Sandin aren't ready or capable of playing top 4 RHD right now.

We would have had the depth, but been looking at paying a premium to replace Holl

 

[TheDoldrums]

Remember when we hired Babcock and Lou and had to fork over picks as compensation? Then the league nixed that rule just as teams started to hire away a bunch of our guys?

Anyways, we gave Seattle their head coach. They should really help us out by taking Kerfoot imfo

 

[Mitch nylander]

I hope Mccann is claimed.

It would be the equivalent of losing our 8-9th best prospect and a 7th. over losing Kerfoot or Dermott. We will be back to square 1.

 

[jiggy35]

Our defensive depth would not have been "shot" if we lost Dermott or Holl. We would need to sign one guy in UFA to play in our top 6... That is not a big deal.

The Leafs should not be paying Seattle anything. The only side deal that should be in place should be the Leafs receiving an upgraded return on a lesser asset (Engvall or Malgin) for taking on Kerfoot's bonus. Otherwise, let them pick one of McCann, Kerfoot, or Dermott.

Which UFA dman would you sign to play top-4 for under 2 mil then?

 

[Brobust]

That's a completely separate topic than what you were just whining about. So, no.

Guy literally paid a prospect and is willing to lose Mccann to keep three bottom of the lineup players on the team. That's exactly my point.

 

[ottomaddox]

Fire Dubas!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It feels to me like some kind of emotional attachment to him by the fanbase. I mean I kind of get it. But he is in his mid 20s at this point and has at no point shown he is anything other then a 3rd pairing left defensemen and arguably our best and most ready prospect fills into literally that exact role.

He's played over 100 minutes in our top 4 the past few years when injuries hit and he did not look out of place in them at all. In fact, he was often one of our better defensemen.

Obviously a different beast playing there the entire time, but he has performed extremely well on the bottom pairing for years now and has even performed well in the top 4 but has never received a full time opportunity in the top 4, even though he can play on his off side.

 

[Walshy7]

If we didn’t make the trade it’s is possible maybe even likely seattle end up with McCann and kerfoot and leave us scrambling for a 3c and probably paying over the odds for it. We paid a 7th and a decent prospect to guarantee ourselves we have a 3c after the expansion draft, it’s really very simple. I hope it’s kerfoot they take but if it’s McCann kerfoot was good enough and pretty good in the playoffs

 

[Mess]

Yeah, I'm pretty confident they know Kerfoot is being picked up here. I would have protected Dermott over Holl personally because i do not believe he is a legit top 4 D, where as Dermott given the chance I think could be.

Holl (29) is a journey man Dman, he just looks semi reliable in Toronto because of a comparison to current roster construction. But Dermott is 5 years (24) younger and cheaper and perfect fit for a start up franchise building from the ground up.

Dermott has the higher upside and ceiling and brighter future, but remember Dubas in must win NOW mode or his own longevity will be questioned so its more GM job preservation in the present that would result in Leafs protecting Holl, because at present he can contribute more to next season. and that is more important to what happens in the future as far as the 2 players go when you prioritize things that way.

To me the Leafs protecting Holl, speaks more to how weak the Leafs are upfront because even after adding McCann they still don't even have 7 forwards worth protecting and using the 7-3-1 option, whereas McCann was Pens 8th or 9th best forward and wasn't going to be protected anyways.

 

[ottomaddox]

I hope Mccann is claimed.

It would be the equivalent of losing our 8-9th best prospect and a 7th. over losing Kerfoot or Dermott. We will be back to square 1.

This doesn't make sense to me.

Oh well.

Seattle can only choose 1.

 

[Community]

yes why trade for McCann to lose him in the expansion draft m. If they wanted to protect someone else so bad trade the prospect to Seattle as part of an an agreement.

Because if they deal Hallander to Seattle, they still lose another player in the expansion draft (and Seattle has more bargaining power to ask for more). Now we either lose a guy we traded Hallander for (McCann), have our replacement for Kerfoot, or lose Dermott which the Leafs valued less than Holl and we have 2 prospects that should be given a shot this year.

If Seattle took Kerfoot, we would have needed to trade for another player to play 3C. Now, regardless of who is picked we can fill that slot (Sandin on 3rd pairing to replace Dermott, McCann/Kerfoot at 3C)

 

[93gilmour93]

It feels to me like some kind of emotional attachment to him by the fanbase. I mean I kind of get it. But he is in his mid 20s at this point and has at no point shown he is anything other then a 3rd pairing left defensemen and arguably our best and most ready prospect fills into literally that exact role.

Exactly this

 

[TheBeastCoast]

He's played over 100 minutes in our top 4 the past few years when injuries hit and he did not look out of place in them at all. In fact, he was often one of our better defensemen.

Obviously a different beast playing there the entire time, but he has performed extremely well on the bottom pairing for years now and has even performed well in the top 4 but has never received a full time opportunity in the top 4, even though he can play on his off side.

I don't know I have thought he looked good in short spurts but at no point have I thought this is a guy that has to be moved up the lineup at any point in his time as a Leaf.

 

[Gallagbi]

I hope Mccann is claimed.

It would be the equivalent of losing our 8-9th best prospect and a 7th. over losing Kerfoot or Dermott. We will be back to square 1.

Hallander is a good prospect that I wish we didn't lose, I'd say much better than 8-9, but were losing a good asset mo matter what

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Guy literally paid a prospect and is willing to lose Mccann to keep three bottom of the lineup players on the team. That's exactly my point.

Your original post that I quoted was about the team looking the exact same this coming season as last, and the fan base turning on players/coaches/management (hint - they wont). I have absolutely no idea what the McCann trade has to do with any of that. That's my point.

It's July 18th.

 

[PromisedLand]

let me get this straight....

so people are defending dubas because:

1 asset out due to expansion draft anyway + 1 asset (hallander) + 7th rounder out is OK

scenarios were:

• seattle picks one of kerfoot/dermott (cap space and then re-evaluate)
• leafs trade 2nd (hallander) + 7th for McCaan; seattle goes with above or McCann so our asset poor (no prospects/picks in the system) is gone and people are defending this?

wow just wow

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Which UFA dman would you sign to play top-4 for under 2 mil then?

I would put Dermott there and then I would sign a guy like Cole/Nemeth/Goligoski/Hjalmarsson to play with Liljegren. Dermott is ready to play 20 minutes a night on a regular basis.

Dermott makes less than 2 mill, and all of those UFA's should make less than 2 mill as well.

 

[Cor]

Could've been worse.

We could've exposed two top six forwards to protect two fourth liners like a certain someone.

 

[Dayjobdave]

This boils down to the Leafs prefer Holl, Dermott and one of McCann or Kerfoot to McCann, Kerfoot, and one of Hall or Dermott. So obviously they value Holl


It goes without saying that Hollander is about to be the next Johan Franzen because we are the Leafs.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

For all the people in the fanbase that like to slober all over Lou and are shitting on the Leafs protecting Holl. The Islanders just protected Matt Martin.