Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

[egd27]

McCann isn't worth protecting?

Apparently not.

 

[zeke]

All came down to Holl. Leafs like him and they dont want to lose a R D.
All hope is lost for Lilygren .. if they liked him, he would have been up already and they would have made holl available.

They like Holl - thats what this all came down to and didnt want to lose him. Thus trading for McCan and giving Vegas the option of him or Kerfoot and the Leafs are just happy to keep one of those two and Holl - and call it a day.

You think they would inject Liljegren straight into their top shutdown pair?

 

[zeke]

Apparently not.

Or the Leafs just left a number of players worth protecting unprotected.

 

[zeke]

Ideally you’d want a player like Holl on the bottom pair.

Except that muzzin-holl has been one of the better top matchup pairs in hockey since being put together.

 

[freshwind]

regarding liljegren .... the reason he did not get games when sandin did had nothing to do with who they like and everything to do with the salary cap ... lily has performance bonuses that brought his cap hit to 1.2 or 3 mill ......... rasmus had none ... it is THE reason amirov said he did not want performance bonuses in order to speed his shot at the nhl .....

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's fun being so tight up against the cap b/c of 4 players and nothing to show for it

 

[Ziggdiezan]

You think they would inject Liljegren straight into their top shutdown pair?

Evidently that is exactly what a lot of leaf fans want to do judging by lineup projections. Seems like trial by fire to me

 

[Mess]

Ideally you’d want a player like Holl on the bottom pair.

That is because Jake Muzzin carries him, and he is not a stand alone top 4 Dman on his own.

If Muzzin is out and Sandin/Dermott move up into the top 4 to play alongside Holl the Leafs are going to be a lot of trouble if that is their 2nd pairing for any length of time. Holl will not carry his partner.That is a 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing level players.

Holl should be a 3rd pairing guy that steps up and fills in a top 4 during injury time as needed.

Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie is a solid 2nd pairing that earn it on their own merits and if Leafs used them and Reilly and had another true top 4 guy then going with the 4-4-1 would be a no brainer.

 

[seanlinden]

That is because Jake Muzzin carries him, and he is not a stand alone top 4 Dman on his own.

If Muzzin is out and Sandin/Dermott move up into the top 4 to play alongside Holl the Leafs are going to be a lot of trouble if that is their 2nd pairing for any length of time. Holl will not carry his partner.That is a 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing level players.

Holl should be a 3rd pairing guy that steps up and fills in a top 4 during injury time as needed.

Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie is a solid 2nd pairing that earn it on their own merits and if Leafs used them and Reilly and had another true top 4 guy then going with the 4-4-1 would be a no brainer.

For $2m, he doesn't need to be... Holl is fine as a 2nd pairing guy, because of the fit. The key is having quality 3rd pair guys that can step up in case of injury.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That is because Jake Muzzin carries him, and he is not a stand alone top 4 Dman on his own.

If Muzzin is out and Sandin/Dermott move up into the top 4 to play alongside Holl the Leafs are going to be a lot of trouble if that is their 2nd pairing for any length of time. Holl will not carry his partner.That is a 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing level players.

Holl should be a 3rd pairing guy that steps up and fills in a top 4 during injury time as needed.

Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie is a solid 2nd pairing that earn it on their own merits and if Leafs used them and Reilly and had another true top 4 guy then going with the 4-4-1 would be a no brainer.

This is exactly Mess what people don't get here .. luv it when u cut to da chase .. Holl at $2M AAV is paid exactly right maybe even a bit high for a 6/7th guy on a top pro defense .. he plays up on 2nd pair with Leafs where he does not belong but most don't understand that .. not even sure Dubie fully gets it either .. now we will lose one of Dermy, Kerfoot or McCann all of which have more upside than Holl .. for me I am unsure now after playoff performance of Kerfoot as it was best I have seen him as a Leaf but is that da real Kerfoot??????? .. Dermy has all da skills required except SIZE but he did not develop as well as he should of last year (understanding development on D is not linear) .. McCann has a game full of flashes where you think he is something special then many more nights where he blends into da weeds .. oh well we will lose one and based on looking at draft I would think it is Dermy .. Bean, Foote and Dermy are 3 great upside defense and you can trade pieces and you keep 2 and you trade 1 .. then draft 5 solid vets and Seattle is gonna have a solid defense in league ASAP .. also Tarasenko and Johannson will give them CAP min and some offense to start off team .. who knows about Price with his injuries but maybe Seattle goes for it to become a solid team ASAP

 

[The Masters]

All hope is lost by you.

not agreeing with it. theysuck

 

[ACC1224]

That is because Jake Muzzin carries him, and he is not a stand alone top 4 Dman on his own.

If Muzzin is out and Sandin/Dermott move up into the top 4 to play alongside Holl the Leafs are going to be a lot of trouble if that is their 2nd pairing for any length of time. Holl will not carry his partner.That is a 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing level players.

Holl should be a 3rd pairing guy that steps up and fills in a top 4 during injury time as needed.

Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie is a solid 2nd pairing that earn it on their own merits and if Leafs used them and Reilly and had another true top 4 guy then going with the 4-4-1 would be a no brainer.

Exactly that. Credit to him for making a career for himself but he needs to be in his proper role.

 

[zeke]

That is because Jake Muzzin carries him, and he is not a stand alone top 4 Dman on his own.

If Muzzin is out and Sandin/Dermott move up into the top 4 to play alongside Holl the Leafs are going to be a lot of trouble if that is their 2nd pairing for any length of time. Holl will not carry his partner.That is a 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing level players.

Holl should be a 3rd pairing guy that steps up and fills in a top 4 during injury time as needed.

Jake Muzzin and TJ Brodie is a solid 2nd pairing that earn it on their own merits and if Leafs used them and Reilly and had another true top 4 guy then going with the 4-4-1 would be a no brainer.

You spend 20yrs on here yelling "DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS" and then want to throw away half of one of the better matchup pairings in hockey as soon as we put it together. Funny.

 

[zeke]

This is exactly Mess what people don't get here .. luv it when u cut to da chase .. Holl at $2M AAV is paid exactly right maybe even a bit high for a 6/7th guy on a top pro defense .. he plays up on 2nd pair with Leafs where he does not belong but most don't understand that .. not even sure Dubie fully gets it either .. now we will lose one of Dermy, Kerfoot or McCann all of which have more upside than Holl .. for me I am unsure now after playoff performance of Kerfoot as it was best I have seen him as a Leaf but is that da real Kerfoot??????? .. Dermy has all da skills required except SIZE but he did not develop as well as he should of last year (understanding development on D is not linear) .. McCann has a game full of flashes where you think he is something special then many more nights where he blends into da weeds .. oh well we will lose one and based on looking at draft I would think it is Dermy .. Bean, Foote and Dermy are 3 great upside defense and you can trade pieces and you keep 2 and you trade 1 .. then draft 5 solid vets and Seattle is gonna have a solid defense in league ASAP .. also Tarasenko and Johannson will give them CAP min and some offense to start off team .. who knows about Price with his injuries but maybe Seattle goes for it to become a solid team ASAP

#6/7 guys do not form one of the better matchup pairings in hockey over 2 seasons.

 

[TheShape]

You think they would inject Liljegren straight into their top shutdown pair?

I don't understand why people think if Liljegren doesn't replace Holl in the lineup next season then the team have given up on him? I expect Liljegren to slot in as the 6-7th D man next year on the right side. ELC contracts are worth their weight in gold for us next season.

 

[Twine Tickler]

honestly I just have this gut feeling that Kerfoot and McCann are both going to be Seattle Kraken by Tomorrow. They reportedly had been very high on both of the players, and would have under normal circumstances been able to select both player without any price. But now that we have both players, there is going to be a cost to acquire them both. I think in Seattle's mind these were 2 players they likely had penciled into their Mock's for a while now, and have likely orchestrated their cap management around low AAV deal like these 2. That said, If we would have protected them both under a 7F + 3D scenario, it would have only made the return that much greater. I really don't like the current protection scheme that this management group has implemented. I am usually very complimentary of this management group, but this is unacceptable asset management IMO. Timothy Liljegren is only a marginal step backwards from Holl at the current moment, but at some point he is going to have to shit or get off the potty. This was the perfect succession plan to leave Holl exposed, who has completely max'd out his potential. Yet we expose 2 very useful depth forwards at low AAV's and from a positional weakness. I've tried to understand this scheme from another lens, but I will never get it personally. The logic of losing McCann is like losing Hallander and a 7th is completely f***ing stupid IMO. We won the McCann trade from the inception of the trade. We immediately got better with that addition. That was the roster. McCann was part of the roster. We don't lose Hallander and a 7th if they select McCann, we lose a player that should have been playing games for the Leafs next year. I'd say usually Dubas and comapny play 3D Chess while others are playing checkers, but they either do not value McCann at all, or they completely missed the mark on this protection list. Hopefully this begins to make more sense in the coming days

 

[Rob Brown]

They should do the actual draft like that.

They are.

 

[Rob Brown]

Whats the leak?

That they're taking Kerfoot.

 

[ACC1224]

That they're taking Kerfoot.

Thanks, probably a rehearsal.

 

[Rob Brown]

Thanks, probably a rehearsal.

I think the videos are pre-recorded, so unless they are filming a clip for the top few players on every team...

 

[Buds17]

honestly I just have this gut feeling that Kerfoot and McCann are both going to be Seattle Kraken by Tomorrow. They reportedly had been very high on both of the players, and would have under normal circumstances been able to select both player without any price. But now that we have both players, there is going to be a cost to acquire them both. I think in Seattle's mind these were 2 players they likely had penciled into their Mock's for a while now, and have likely orchestrated their cap management around low AAV deal like these 2. That said, If we would have protected them both under a 7F + 3D scenario, it would have only made the return that much greater. I really don't like the current protection scheme that this management group has implemented. I am usually very complimentary of this management group, but this is unacceptable asset management IMO. Timothy Liljegren is only a marginal step backwards from Holl at the current moment, but at some point he is going to have to shit or get off the potty. This was the perfect succession plan to leave Holl exposed, who has completely max'd out his potential. Yet we expose 2 very useful depth forwards at low AAV's and from a positional weakness. I've tried to understand this scheme from another lens, but I will never get it personally. The logic of losing McCann is like losing Hallander and a 7th is completely f***ing stupid IMO. We won the McCann trade from the inception of the trade. We immediately got better with that addition. That was the roster. McCann was part of the roster. We don't lose Hallander and a 7th if they select McCann, we lose a player that should have been playing games for the Leafs next year. I'd say usually Dubas and comapny play 3D Chess while others are playing checkers, but they either do not value McCann at all, or they completely missed the mark on this protection list. Hopefully this begins to make more sense in the coming days

What would be the reason for Toronto to trade the other forward in the event one of the two becomes Seattle's selection for the expansion draft?

 

[ACC1224]

I think the videos are pre-recorded, so unless they are filming a clip for the top few players on every team...

Looks to me like some Leaf twit looking for attention.
You'd expect more leaks than just that one, no?

 

[francis246]

honestly I just have this gut feeling that Kerfoot and McCann are both going to be Seattle Kraken by Tomorrow. They reportedly had been very high on both of the players, and would have under normal circumstances been able to select both player without any price. But now that we have both players, there is going to be a cost to acquire them both. I think in Seattle's mind these were 2 players they likely had penciled into their Mock's for a while now, and have likely orchestrated their cap management around low AAV deal like these 2. That said, If we would have protected them both under a 7F + 3D scenario, it would have only made the return that much greater. I really don't like the current protection scheme that this management group has implemented. I am usually very complimentary of this management group, but this is unacceptable asset management IMO. Timothy Liljegren is only a marginal step backwards from Holl at the current moment, but at some point he is going to have to shit or get off the potty. This was the perfect succession plan to leave Holl exposed, who has completely max'd out his potential. Yet we expose 2 very useful depth forwards at low AAV's and from a positional weakness. I've tried to understand this scheme from another lens, but I will never get it personally. The logic of losing McCann is like losing Hallander and a 7th is completely f***ing stupid IMO. We won the McCann trade from the inception of the trade. We immediately got better with that addition. That was the roster. McCann was part of the roster. We don't lose Hallander and a 7th if they select McCann, we lose a player that should have been playing games for the Leafs next year. I'd say usually Dubas and comapny play 3D Chess while others are playing checkers, but they either do not value McCann at all, or they completely missed the mark on this protection list. Hopefully this begins to make more sense in the coming days

how the f*** would Seattle end up with both? They can only take one player. This is a horrible take. They’ve been high on Kerfoot for the last year, that’s who they are taking. I don’t think it’s a secret. Cost controlled Center with term, it’s really a no brainer. Kerfoot will cost you less than McCann long term, so that’s what Seattle will do.

why would we then trade them McCann in addition to them taking Kerfoot? Makes no sense

 

[Joey Hoser]

honestly I just have this gut feeling that Kerfoot and McCann are both going to be Seattle Kraken by Tomorrow. They reportedly had been very high on both of the players, and would have under normal circumstances been able to select both player without any price. But now that we have both players, there is going to be a cost to acquire them both. I think in Seattle's mind these were 2 players they likely had penciled into their Mock's for a while now, and have likely orchestrated their cap management around low AAV deal like these 2. That said, If we would have protected them both under a 7F + 3D scenario, it would have only made the return that much greater. I really don't like the current protection scheme that this management group has implemented. I am usually very complimentary of this management group, but this is unacceptable asset management IMO. Timothy Liljegren is only a marginal step backwards from Holl at the current moment, but at some point he is going to have to shit or get off the potty. This was the perfect succession plan to leave Holl exposed, who has completely max'd out his potential. Yet we expose 2 very useful depth forwards at low AAV's and from a positional weakness. I've tried to understand this scheme from another lens, but I will never get it personally. The logic of losing McCann is like losing Hallander and a 7th is completely f***ing stupid IMO. We won the McCann trade from the inception of the trade. We immediately got better with that addition. That was the roster. McCann was part of the roster. We don't lose Hallander and a 7th if they select McCann, we lose a player that should have been playing games for the Leafs next year. I'd say usually Dubas and comapny play 3D Chess while others are playing checkers, but they either do not value McCann at all, or they completely missed the mark on this protection list. Hopefully this begins to make more sense in the coming days

Seattle can only take one player from each team.

 

[Twine Tickler]

What would be the reason for Toronto to trade the other forward in the event one of the two becomes Seattle's selection for the expansion draft?

to get back into the first round or recover any draft capital...?

Seattle is almost undoubtingly going to get a ton of picks to select certain players over others. If we can trade McCann to Seattle for draft capital, say 2x 2nd rounders, it would essentially be like trading Hallander and a 7th for 2x second rounders. It would be a quick flip, and would mitigate some of out losses on the draft front from last year. I am not necessarily in support of this logic, I just cannot se any reason why we would leave 2 players that Seattle highly coveted off of our protection list if we were not prepared to lose either one of them. Which in a round about way says they are to some degree available. If we don't value them enough to protect them, and Seattle values them enough to trade for the one that remains after they select our player it seems like there could be a valuable trade to be had should the price make sense. Again, I m not supporting this, but its not that far fetched