Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

[Twine Tickler]

They can only take one player.

they would trade for the other player that was not selected..... that is how

 

[Twine Tickler]

Seattle can only take one player from each team.

trade for the other player....if they wanted both before, they likely still do now. Which means there is a potential return that might better serve us in the long term over whatever player remains between McCann and Kerf

 

[Buds17]

to get back into the first round or recover any draft capital...?

Seattle is almost undoubtingly going to get a ton of picks to select certain players over others. If we can trade McCann to Seattle for draft capital, say 2x 2nd rounders, it would essentially be like trading Hallander and a 7th for 2x second rounders. It would be a quick flip, and would mitigate some of out losses on the draft front from last year. I am not necessarily in support of this logic, I just cannot se any reason why we would leave 2 players that Seattle highly coveted off of our protection list if we were not prepared to lose either one of them. Which in a round about way says they are to some degree available. If we don't value them enough to protect them, and Seattle values them enough to trade for the one that remains after they select our player it seems like there could be a valuable trade to be had should the price make sense. Again, I m not supporting this, but its not that far fetched

Fair enough. I'm still leaning towards Kerfoot being Seattle's selection (hopefully it comes without enticement from the Leafs). I can't remember if there's been any previous history of a team trading for an expansion eligible player only to then lose him in the draft? I'd be curious to know if Pittsburgh knew - or just made an educated guess - about losing McCann specifically to Seattle without that trade to Toronto happening? I think Dubas (and maybe Francis) value Holl quite well. Additional draft capital is always a bonus. Toronto would still need to bring in a forward to replace Kerfoot/McCann and possibly also Hyman as well though.

 

[francis246]

trade for the other player....if they wanted both before, they likely still do now. Which means there is a potential return that might better serve us in the long term over whatever player remains between McCann and Kerf

I can’t see the leafs doing that. I get your line of thinking. But I think the leafs are high on both Kerfoot and McCann and are secretly hoping Dermott is Seattle’s pick. I do not see them trading the other forward for draft capital. But I can understand why you think they may

 

[Mess]

This is exactly Mess what people don't get here .. luv it when u cut to da chase .. Holl at $2M AAV is paid exactly right maybe even a bit high for a 6/7th guy on a top pro defense .. he plays up on 2nd pair with Leafs where he does not belong but most don't understand that.

Holl is a 3rd pairing guy on merit and on contract and a 2nd pairing guy worthy of protection only because he is a good fit with Muzzin who carries him as he would anyone paired with him. People have it backwards its not how are you going to find a 2nd pairing guy making $2mil to replace him if lost, but rather recognizing he isn't a stand alone 2nd pairing player on his own merits, and should be in your 3rd pairing as he is being paid relatively high for a 3rd pairing guy and easily replaceable in that role by simply re-signing Bogosian (~@ $1.5 mil) for less and playing him as your RHD?

But what if that situation changes?

Jake Muzzin got hurt in game #6 (early) in the playoffs and Leafs went on to lose both games #6 and #7 as his injury exposed the Leafs defense that they only had 2 top 4 dmen left in Reilly and Brodie . In game #7 Corey Perry is standing all alone beside the side of the net tipping in the series winning goal without Jake standing there beside Holl on the PK.

Picture Leafs defense without Muzzin (injured) and Holl as your top 2nd pairing defender expected to carry the load of that duo.

Reilly --- Brodie
Sandin -- Holl
**Dermott -- Lilegren

Yikes !!!

** If Seattle takes McCann or Kerfoot. (and weakens Leaf forward group even more).

Letting Holl go to Seattle and reclaiming his $2 mil and then topping that up to$4 mil and adding a real 2nd pairing RHD Dman would be an option worth considering. IMO

 

[zeke]

Holl is a 3rd pairing guy on merit

Holl has been part of one of the better matchup pairings in hockey for the last 2 seasons. And only costs $2m.

and as you say, Defense Wins Championships.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Fair enough. I'm still leaning towards Kerfoot being Seattle's selection (hopefully it comes without enticement from the Leafs). I can't remember if there's been any previous history of a team trading for an expansion eligible player only to then lose him in the draft? I'd be curious to know if Pittsburgh knew - or just made an educated guess - about losing McCann specifically to Seattle without that trade to Toronto happening? I think Dubas (and maybe Francis) value Holl quite well. Additional draft capital is always a bonus. Toronto would still need to bring in a forward to replace Kerfoot/McCann and possibly also Hyman as well though.

ya for sure, I think the idea would be that prior to the McCann trade from Pittsburgh it was almost a sure thing that Pitt would lose McCann for nothing, and Leafs would lose Kerfoot. In KD's mind maybe he was like, ok well if these 2 are undoubtingly getting selected by Seattle lets see if we can lose 1 to them, and then trade the other to them for a higher cost than Hallander and a 7th. Pitt wins because they don't lose McCann for nothing, and TOR potentially wins because they do a quick flip of Hallander and 7th for 2 higher draft picks. This scenario also free's up cap space to sign bigger name free agents, possibly even be in the running for Landeskog. I guess the reason I am suggesting this to be possible is that I just don't see the logic of leaving McCann unprotected if we wanted to use him as an player on our active roster next year. If Seattle covets both of these players, they will have to pay price to trade for the remaining player they cannot select.

 

[Buds17]

ya for sure, I think the idea would be that prior to the McCann trade from Pittsburgh it was almost a sure thing that Pitt would lose McCann for nothing, and Leafs would lose Kerfoot. In KD's mind maybe he was like, ok well if these 2 are undoubtingly getting selected by Seattle lets see if we can lose 1 to them, and then trade the other to them for a higher cost than Hallander and a 7th. Pitt wins because they don't lose McCann for nothing, and TOR potentially wins because they do a quick flip of Hallander and 7th for 2 higher draft picks. This scenario also free's up cap space to sign bigger name free agents, possibly even be in the running for Landeskog. I guess the reason I am suggesting this to be possible is that I just don't see the logic of leaving McCann unprotected if we wanted to use him as an player on our active roster next year. If Seattle covets both of these players, they will have to pay price to trade for the remaining player they cannot select.

It might very well be an all or nothing situation with McCann and the Leafs. He was either acquired because:

a) he will be the one lost to Seattle via the expansion draft or
b) Dubas made this trade knowing that Seattle will be looking elsewhere on the unprotected list (with or without a side deal).

I can't really envision Seattle selecting anyone other than Kerfoot or McCann from Toronto. This should be a more exciting draft (for Toronto) compared to the one that stocked VGK. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that!

 

[Discoverer]

ya for sure, I think the idea would be that prior to the McCann trade from Pittsburgh it was almost a sure thing that Pitt would lose McCann for nothing, and Leafs would lose Kerfoot. In KD's mind maybe he was like, ok well if these 2 are undoubtingly getting selected by Seattle lets see if we can lose 1 to them, and then trade the other to them for a higher cost than Hallander and a 7th. Pitt wins because they don't lose McCann for nothing, and TOR potentially wins because they do a quick flip of Hallander and 7th for 2 higher draft picks. This scenario also free's up cap space to sign bigger name free agents, possibly even be in the running for Landeskog. I guess the reason I am suggesting this to be possible is that I just don't see the logic of leaving McCann unprotected if we wanted to use him as an player on our active roster next year. If Seattle covets both of these players, they will have to pay price to trade for the remaining player they cannot select.

I think it's way, way simpler than that. The Leafs wanted to protect 4 D, so they were going to lose a forward (Kerfoot) and would need to replace him. Instead, they got the replacement at a discounted rate (because Pittsburgh was going to lose him anyway, so they took a "better than nothing" return) and now they have two guys to fill one role. One gets picked, they keep the other. Done.

 

[Twine Tickler]

It might very well be an all or nothing situation with McCann and the Leafs. He was either acquired because:

a) he will be the one lost to Seattle via the expansion draft or
b) Dubas made this trade knowing that Seattle will be looking elsewhere on the unprotected list (with or without a side deal).

I can't really envision Seattle selecting anyone other than Kerfoot or McCann from Toronto. This should be a more exciting draft (for Toronto) compared to the one that stocked VGK. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that!

I am with you on this. I really hope Seattle selects Kerf. I just think we can put that 3.5 towards a guy like Blake Coleman and come out as a wash on the whole thing. I think Kerf is a good player, but I really don't see him excelling past a 2nd line role. McCann has some real offensive upside. I am a bit nervous on his reported character issues. I remember the fanbase here in Vancouver was outraged when they moved him years back because he really did look good for the Canucks. Only to have Benning rationalize the move as saying Jared was one of the most difficult players he has ever had to manage. Extremely rare for any GM to speak openly to the media about a player's character like that. I guess time will tell. I have always like McCann's game on the ice, and I really think he can be an asset if he's got it figured out in between the ears. But he is on his 4th team already. Sometimes where there is smoke there is fire.

like I said, hopefully they select Kerf because I do think he is the inferior player over McCann. That said, I think that leaked video is probably just nonsense. They likely have video of every potential pick.

should be exciting nonetheless

 

[Leaf Fans]

Looks to me like some Leaf twit looking for attention.
You'd expect more leaks than just that one, no?

It might be a rehearsal. But it is Kevin Weeks in the video for sure.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I think it's way, way simpler than that. The Leafs wanted to protect 4 D, so they were going to lose a forward (Kerfoot) and would need to replace him. Instead, they got the replacement at a discounted rate (because Pittsburgh was going to lose him anyway, so they took a "better than nothing" return) and now they have two guys to fill one role. One gets picked, they keep the other. Done.

ya or sure, that's the narrative that has been thrown around for a while. I guess in my mind I value McCann as a higher value player over Kerfoot. And quite frankly I was ok with the Leafs losing Kerfoot. Not because I think he is shit, far from it. I just feel like we can find a suitable replacement for around the same AAV in UFA. I just don't see the same when it comes to McCann. McCann is far exceeding his current AAV and is still under team control after next season. I honestly have no clue why Seattle would value Kerf over him personally. By leaving them both exposed, in my mind we are hoping that Seattle drops the ball and takes Kerf. But hey, maybe there was some handshake agreement that was made that we are not privy to

 

[Racer88]

ya for sure, I think the idea would be that prior to the McCann trade from Pittsburgh it was almost a sure thing that Pitt would lose McCann for nothing, and Leafs would lose Kerfoot. In KD's mind maybe he was like, ok well if these 2 are undoubtingly getting selected by Seattle lets see if we can lose 1 to them, and then trade the other to them for a higher cost than Hallander and a 7th. Pitt wins because they don't lose McCann for nothing, and TOR potentially wins because they do a quick flip of Hallander and 7th for 2 higher draft picks. This scenario also free's up cap space to sign bigger name free agents, possibly even be in the running for Landeskog. I guess the reason I am suggesting this to be possible is that I just don't see the logic of leaving McCann unprotected if we wanted to use him as an player on our active roster next year. If Seattle covets both of these players, they will have to pay price to trade for the remaining player they cannot select.

I doubt Seattle “covets” either of those 2 players. They have to pick a player from both team and will,pick the best player left unprotected. I highly doubt they will make those 2 picks then trade for a 3rd player

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The easiest way for the fanbase to appreciate Holl would be for Dubas to have left him exposed. There's zero reason to be okay with giving up on a top 4 defenseman who makes 2 million a year. Especially considering how terrible the Leafs defense was until Holl solidified the top 4

 

[Mess]

The easiest way for the fanbase to appreciate Holl would be for Dubas to have left him exposed. There's zero reason to be okay with giving up on a top 4 defenseman who makes 2 million a year. Especially considering how terrible the Leafs defense was until Holl solidified the top 4

Protecting Holl suggests Leafs are not looking to upgrade the defense by any significant additions coming.

Going out and getting a Dougie Hamilton and then pushing Holl into the 3rd pairing makes protecting him a questionable decision, particularly if its a forward the Leafs lose to expansion.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

#6/7 guys do not form one of the better matchup pairings in hockey over 2 seasons.

It is only one of better match up pairs because Muzzy is a solid #2 on almost every team in league like he did in LA with Doughty .. ask Drew who carried da mail? and he will tell you Muzzy .. says a lot .. when you put a #2 with a #6 it works fine

 

[rumman]

The easiest way for the fanbase to appreciate Holl would be for Dubas to have left him exposed. There's zero reason to be okay with giving up on a top 4 defenseman who makes 2 million a year. Especially considering how terrible the Leafs defense was until Holl solidified the top 4

Holl’s a solid third pairing D man, no more, no less.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The easiest way for the fanbase to appreciate Holl would be for Dubas to have left him exposed. There's zero reason to be okay with giving up on a top 4 defenseman who makes 2 million a year. Especially considering how terrible the Leafs defense was until Holl solidified the top 4

Yeah I don't get the guy is a bargain

 

[zeke]

It is only one of better match up pairs because Muzzy is a solid #2 on almost every team in league like he did in LA with Doughty .. ask Drew who carried da mail? and he will tell you Muzzy .. says a lot .. when you put a #2 with a #6 it works fine

If you think muzzin is good enough to carry a 6/7 dman and make it one of the better matchup pairings then you think he's a Norris contender.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If you think muzzin is good enough to carry a 6/7 dman and make it one of the better matchup pairings then you think he's a Norris contender.

No I don't .. I think he is a top end defensive defender who has learned all da ropes and knows how to clean up a ton of Holl's mistakes .. he would do same for Dermy and all of you fans would think Dermy was a little better than he is too

 

[zeke]

No I don't .. I think he is a top end defensive defender who has learned all da ropes and knows how to clean up a ton of Holl's mistakes .. he would do same for Dermy and all of you fans would think Dermy was a little better than he is too

that's one of the better top matchup pairs in hockey the past 2yrs.

Either Muzzin is flat out elite, or Holl is pretty damn good too.

 

[zeke]

Protecting Holl suggests Leafs are not looking to upgrade the defense by any significant additions coming.

Going out and getting a Dougie Hamilton and then pushing Holl into the 3rd pairing makes protecting him a questionable decision, particularly if its a forward the Leafs lose to expansion.

Did you not enjoy giving up the 7th fewest goals in hockey this past year? even with sub-par goaltending?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

that's one of the better top matchup pairs in hockey the past 2yrs.

Either Muzzin is flat out elite, or Holl is pretty damn good too.

Muzzy is a top 5 defensive defender in league .. it is too bad Rielly doesn't have da lateral skating ability and hand eye to play right side like Dermy has ..

Muzzy - Brodie would be best defensive pair in league .. by far top pair .. with no one else even close

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Holl’s a solid third pairing D man, no more, no less.

he plays in the top 4 and has good results, so you are wrong

 

[Racer88]

Protecting Holl suggests Leafs are not looking to upgrade the defense by any significant additions coming.

Going out and getting a Dougie Hamilton and then pushing Holl into the 3rd pairing makes protecting him a questionable decision, particularly if its a forward the Leafs lose to expansion.

Sadly I don’t think we are getting any significant additions anytime soon