Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

[Leaf Fans]

NHL Expansion Draft protected list for Kraken released

look for the Leafs under "available" disregard the folks that are UFAs

Not nessessarily, they could be in negotiations with a UFA right now.

 

[93WrapAround]

I'm pretty lost at the takes I've seen about how stupid it would be to trade for McCann by giving up a couple of assets, only to lose him shortly after - thus seemingly giving away those 2 assets for nothing.

It's actually wildly simple folks - we accumulated an asset (that we deemed greater than the 2 assets we traded away, else we wouldn't have made the deal) that wasn't there prior to the trade. Ie. we now have more assets than we had two days ago. Hence, whether McCann is the asset that Seattle takes, or it's someone else, we will still have more assets after that expansion draft than we would have had if we didn't make the trade.

 

[yubbers]

First. This is not the right way to analyze the scenario. All the GMs in the league had anticipated cap increase and had to modify their plans given pandemic impacted every team in the league not just the Leafs.

Second, no GM in the league was DUMB enough to hand out three 11 AAV contracts on the team. Rantanen, Aho, Kucherov all signed for less than Marner.

How is it that you guys keep supporting the incompetence of dubas that has handcuffed the team and ruined any progress/future of the team; while claiming to be the fans of Toronto Maple Leafs is beyond me

It reminds me of the political climate in the west theses days. Ppl will just continue to shill for their 'team' regardless of what the results yield. Nobody can just call a spade a spade anymore. Ppl are incapable of admitting they got something wrong.

It's so weird watching ppl defend the undefendable. Why? Let's call bad stuff out so we can fix it ffs. Identity politics is cancer. Everyone is just dug into their tribe and it's leaking into every day life.

 

[francis246]

They could have gone 7-3-1

1. Matthews
2. Nylander
3. Tavares
4. Marner
5. Kerfoot
6. McCann
7. Spezza/Simmonds

Expose: Spezza/Simmonds

1. Rielly
2. Muzzin
3. Brodie

Expose: Holl/Dermott

Holl is being treated like he is the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr. He is a product of Muzzin; he is the softest tall D that I've ever seen. He doesn't bring any offense either. Guy is freakin' useless

I don't disagree with you, but I understand the desire to keep him. 6'4 RHD at 2 million don't grow on trees. To replace him you'd probably have to pay more especially through UFA. So to bring in David Savard for example would cost you maybe 3 million with more term and is he THAT much better than Justin Holl? idk, but I think Holl is a better skater. So it just depends on what the organization values right?

 

[4thline]

So where do people draw the line on a side deal to keep McCann over Kerfoot?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don't mind it because cap space is king and you can do a lot with $3.5 million. At this point, I just want us to keep the cheaper, younger, better player in McCann.

Define "better"? Does that mean he scores more points and fits right in with the soft as butter crew, or does he have grit in his game?

 

[Stephen]

There we have dirrefent view, because I think getting those top4 dmans is actually pretty hard for rebuilding team. We are forward heavy, because in our drafts there haven't been any franchise dmans available. I mean guys like Hedman and Doughty, even with Hedman it took years that he got onto that Norris level. Trough trading it's hard or why Lamoriellos best aquisition was Zaitsev?

Teams value defense over offense. I bet we would have liked to trade Kapanen, Johnson etc. for young dman on that same calibre. I think that is the reason we wanted to keep Holl here, because this game is so fast nowadays that you need those right handed dmans and it's just natural that there is more lefties than righties. Which makes it even harder find. If you look up drafts from 2004 to 2021 there isn't that many star dmans on that round or if there is it might beg from 25th pick onwards or took years for that player to reach potential.

As captain hindsight it's easy to say now that we should have drafted Werenski instead of Marner, but the irony is that if we'd do that we wouldn't have forgive our front office on passing Marner when he starts his career the way he started it. Though we got extremely lucky that all our star picks panned out that way in Nylander, Marner and Matthews. In trade capital I think Marner and Nylander won't go 1on1 to same calibre defender, because those top2 dmans are so rare and sought after players.

Trouba is anomaly, because he wanted to play in Rangers. Jets wouldn't have traded him otherwise and he was off the market even then. Hamilton is in my books overrated and journeyman, but yeah have been available. We don't understand how lucky we are for having Rielly, what we paid for Muzzin is what you pay for experienced defense in the NHL. Vegas took lot of defenders and I think Seattle will too, then we should strike and find suitable trades if there is any.

About those Marner talks, if they leak you damn better be ready to trade him, because that trust factor between player and organization is out of the door that same day that happens. Players say that this is business and you can't never be sure, but if you know your on the market that stirs the pot and adds friction to the dressing room. I don't think this is the summer you want that.

Edit. If you analyze drafts those Schneider picks are usually pretty rare to hit.

I don’t know if it’s a matter of necessarily hitting on the picks but just demonstrate that those “fridge” picks are part of a healthy diet of draft selections. Like Fedor Gordeev was a big project pick. Didn’t work out. But once in a while go take another look, see if you can grab an Erik Cernak.

 

[A1LeafNation]

So where do people draw the line on a side deal to keep McCann over Kerfoot?

I don't see the point. They are the same tier of player.

Hallander was our side deal instead of dealing a 1st and and 3rd to Seattle, Leafs and Pens curved them.

 

[francis246]

So where do people draw the line on a side deal to keep McCann over Kerfoot?

why would the leafs do that, make seattle choose and be done with it. there is still a 33% chance dermott is the guy Seattle takes

 

[Leaf Fans]

It reminds me of the political climate in the west theses days. Ppl will just continue to shill for their 'team' regardless of what the results yield. Nobody can just call a spade a spade anymore. Ppl are incapable of admitting they got something wrong.

It's so weird watching ppl defend the undefendable. Why? Let's call bad stuff out so we can fix it ffs. Identity politics is cancer. Everyone is just dug into their tribe and it's leaking into every day life.

Yes, that is what people should do. Lately, it has been the cronic complainers crap posting all the time. If people don't like the results this team or any other team is getting, the don't have to stick with the team. There are plenty of other teams to support.

 

[4thline]

I don't see the point. They are the same tier of player.

Hallander was our side deal instead of dealing a 1st and and 3rd to Seattle, Leafs and Pens curved them.

why would the leafs do that, make seattle choose and be done with it. there is still a 33% chance dermott is the guy Seattle takes

It's a hypothetical. Some posters in this thread clearly value McCann higher than Kerfoot, I'm curious to see how much higher.

 

[Leaf Fans]

why would the leafs do that, make seattle choose and be done with it. there is still a 33% chance dermott is the guy Seattle takes

Not exactly 1/3 Seattle could sign a free agent, they might like the size in Engvall or the hustle of Brooks. Or someone else. Admittedly, low probabilities, but certainly possibilities.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Seattle is going to get at least 3 great goalies, i'd like to be on their good side and try to deal for one if i was a GM. ...and also a plethora of young high potential d-men, reciprocity is a good thing.

Kahkonen
N.Ritchie

and to a much lesser extent, Zadorov would be of interest to me looking at the protection lists that we could realistically fit in our cap structure.

Kahkonen would be a ridiculous add.

 

[egd27]

why... it really isn't that big of a deal. The organization obviously values Kerfoot and what he brings and it makes sense, they frigging traded Kadri for him. So they better damn value him. At the end of the day I do believe in my heart that Kerfoot is who Seattle will take and we will end up with McCann. Kerfoot cost less actual dollars and has more term and can be flipped for assets

I wonder how much of this is actually valuing Kerfoot versus Kid Kyle trying to save face by not losing both assets acquired in the Kadri trade within 2 seasons for nothing.

Losing assets for nothing (or very very little) seems to be a recurring theme under his stewardship.

 

[LeafGrief]

That's a bit of a spin.

For one thing, Hallander is a recent second round pick and someone the Leafs "loved" in his draft year, and some have been penciling him in for a lengthier audition this fall as recently as 48 hours ago, so we need to move off the idea that Hallander is a disposable nothing piece.

The second one is there's a reality where Toronto could have protected McCann AND Kerfoot and solidified their middle six, top nine while having to find a Holl replacement which isn't impossible in a flat cap world. You can even make the argument that Holl ought to be upgraded from because he's basically just a passable warm body who plays with Muzzin.

It's not that I think Hallander is a disposable piece, it's that he's a prospect and not on the team. We've been worried about whether we lose our #4D or our younger #6 with potential. To lose Hallander instead of that is absolutely a positive in my book. He's not a nothing, he's a good prospect, but as a solid prospect I think he still ranks well below Travis Dermott in terms of importance to the organization.

I really think that many people are underestimating the value of Holl. #4D making 2m/yr is already ultra-important to a cap starved team like us. Then consider the fact that Seattle is going to be picking up the #4D from almost 10 teams in the league. Cost effective defensemen are extremely hard to find, we spent over 10 years trying to find guys who can play a steady right side. There's going to be a severe shortage of available defensemen this summer as every UFA with a pulse is going to be targeted. You're setting yourself up to try and replace Holl in the middle of a bidding war. And the idea that Holl is a warm body is silly. Everyone around here likes to talk as if results are the only thing that matters. You're getting #4D results from Justin Holl for just 2m/yr. It doesn't matter if he's getting carried by Muzzin, you're getting #4D results and results are what matters. Why do we need to upgrade on him when we're getting the results? When we talk about forwards, people rave about how players like Crosby or Tavares (in his Islanders days) take random third liners and make them rich. Even if Justin Holl is just a guy, Jake Muzzin is giving you the Crosby special and turning your 2m guy into a solid #4. Take the cap savings and run, instead of worrying about the name on the back of the jersey. You're getting your results, and you're getting your cap savings.

 

[Mess]

NHL Expansion Draft protected list for Kraken released

look for the Leafs under "available" disregard the folks that are UFAs

Lets be honest here and point out the elephant in the room, and the one sitting on the GMs lap.

The fact that Leafs spend 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards, really exposes how little depth the team has around them, as they don't even have enough forwards worth protecting using the 7-3-1 like 90% of all the other NHL teams did EVEN after they acquired McCann.

Making 4-4-1 and protecting 2 less skaters their only real option where they valued their 4th dman Holl worth the price of 3 forward protection spots.

Lets ponder that thought and let it sink in for a second, the Leafs could have (if they had any) protected the core 4 F + 3 additions forwards at the expense of Justin Holl.

This is a team that claims its Cup competitive and doesn't have even 7 forwards of the 12 you dress in a normal game worth protecting from expansion loss.

Now that is the definition of being in Cap Hell when even an expansion team is struggling with who to take as your willing to give them your 5th best forward and anyone else below that!!! Even bottom feeding teams like Ottawa, Detroit and Buffalo have 7 forwards they want to keep and protect from expansion, but not our Leafs who only have 5 and 6 after McCann was added.

 

[ottomaddox]

NHL Expansion Draft protected list for Kraken released

look for the Leafs under "available" disregard the folks that are UFAs

Thanks because people on this board are using Twitter quotes to "school" people, and the Twitter quotes are wild.

 

[francis246]

I wonder how much of this is actually valuing Kerfoot versus Kid Kyle trying to save face by not losing both assets acquired in the Kadri trade within 2 seasons for nothing.

Losing assets for nothing (or very very little) seems to be a recurring theme under his stewardship.

agreed 100 and like I said my post, they better damn value Kerfoot, they traded Kadri for him which I think was such a mistake. Value 3rd line center on a good contract.

 

[ottomaddox]

Lets be honest here and point out the elephant in the room.

View attachment 453955

The fact that Leafs spend 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards, really exposes how little depth the team has around them, as they don't even have enough forwards worth protecting using the 7-3-1 like 90% of all the other NHL teams did EVEN after they acquired McCann.

Making 4-4-1 and protecting 2 less skaters their only real option where they valued their 4th dman Holl worth the price of 3 forward protection spots.

Lets ponder that thought for a second Leafs could have (if they had any) protected the core 4 F + 3 additions forwards at the expense of Justin Holl.

This is a team that claims its Cup competitive and doesn't have even 7 forwards of the 12 you dress in a normal game worth protecting from expansion loss. Now that is the definition of being in Cap Hell when even an expansion team is struggling with who to take as your willing to give them your 5th best forward and anyone else below that!!! Even bottom feeding teams like Ottawa, Detroit and Buffalo have 7 forwards they want to keep and protect from expansion, but not our Leafs who only have 5 and 6 after McCann was added.

This is hard to argue against.

Also

Hard to hold back my tears.

 

[4thline]

Lets be honest here and point out the elephant in the room, and the one sitting on the GMs lap.

View attachment 453955

The fact that Leafs spend 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards, really exposes how little depth the team has around them, as they don't even have enough forwards worth protecting using the 7-3-1 like 90% of all the other NHL teams did EVEN after they acquired McCann.

Making 4-4-1 and protecting 2 less skaters their only real option where they valued their 4th dman Holl worth the price of 3 forward protection spots.

Lets ponder that thought and let it sink in for a second, the Leafs could have (if they had any) protected the core 4 F + 3 additions forwards at the expense of Justin Holl.

This is a team that claims its Cup competitive and doesn't have even 7 forwards of the 12 you dress in a normal game worth protecting from expansion loss.

Now that is the definition of being in Cap Hell when even an expansion team is struggling with who to take as your willing to give them your 5th best forward and anyone else below that!!! Even bottom feeding teams like Ottawa, Detroit and Buffalo have 7 forwards they want to keep and protect from expansion, but not our Leafs who only have 5 and 6 after McCann was added.

The bolded is almost as nonsensical as when you dreamed up the convoluted bullshit that Horton's LTIR cancelled out Marleau's contract.

It's a 1v1 comparison of 4th d vs. 5th forward. Only one player gets selected.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I wonder how much of this is actually valuing Kerfoot versus Kid Kyle trying to save face by not losing both assets acquired in the Kadri trade within 2 seasons for nothing.

Losing assets for nothing (or very very little) seems to be a recurring theme under his stewardship.

Dubas wouldn't be losing face, so it wouldn't be fear of losing face. Dubas brings more assets than he loses.

 

[Mess]

This is hard to argue against.

Also

Hard to hold back my tears.

 

[PromisedLand]

Lets be honest here and point out the elephant in the room, and the one sitting on the GMs lap.

View attachment 453955

The fact that Leafs spend 1/2 their cap on just 4 forwards, really exposes how little depth the team has around them, as they don't even have enough forwards worth protecting using the 7-3-1 like 90% of all the other NHL teams did EVEN after they acquired McCann.

Making 4-4-1 and protecting 2 less skaters their only real option where they valued their 4th dman Holl worth the price of 3 forward protection spots.

Lets ponder that thought and let it sink in for a second, the Leafs could have (if they had any) protected the core 4 F + 3 additions forwards at the expense of Justin Holl.

This is a team that claims its Cup competitive and doesn't have even 7 forwards of the 12 you dress in a normal game worth protecting from expansion loss.

Now that is the definition of being in Cap Hell when even an expansion team is struggling with who to take as your willing to give them your 5th best forward and anyone else below that!!! Even bottom feeding teams like Ottawa, Detroit and Buffalo have 7 forwards they want to keep and protect from expansion, but not our Leafs who only have 5 and 6 after McCann was added.

"We can and we will" ------>>>> SUCK!

 

[Beaumaris]

It's not that I think Hallander is a disposable piece, it's that he's a prospect and not on the team. We've been worried about whether we lose our #4D or our younger #6 with potential. To lose Hallander instead of that is absolutely a positive in my book. He's not a nothing, he's a good prospect, but as a solid prospect I think he still ranks well below Travis Dermott in terms of importance to the organization.

I really think that many people are underestimating the value of Holl. #4D making 2m/yr is already ultra-important to a cap starved team like us. Then consider the fact that Seattle is going to be picking up the #4D from almost 10 teams in the league. Cost effective defensemen are extremely hard to find, we spent over 10 years trying to find guys who can play a steady right side. There's going to be a severe shortage of available defensemen this summer as every UFA with a pulse is going to be targeted. You're setting yourself up to try and replace Holl in the middle of a bidding war. And the idea that Holl is a warm body is silly. Everyone around here likes to talk as if results are the only thing that matters. You're getting #4D results from Justin Holl for just 2m/yr. It doesn't matter if he's getting carried by Muzzin, you're getting #4D results and results are what matters. Why do we need to upgrade on him when we're getting the results? When we talk about forwards, people rave about how players like Crosby or Tavares (in his Islanders days) take random third liners and make them rich. Even if Justin Holl is just a guy, Jake Muzzin is giving you the Crosby special and turning your 2m guy into a solid #4. Take the cap savings and run, instead of worrying about the name on the back of the jersey. You're getting your results, and you're getting your cap savings.

Calm,sensible prognosis doc.

 

[Leaf Fans]

"We can and we will" ------>>>> SUCK!

Yeah, but back to the Leafs.