Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

[francis246]

I still maintain the only way the deal makes sense is if there is a side deal with Seattle. Trading a good prospect for McCann to protect Kerfoot is one of the most ridiculous plans I've ever heard. The expansion draft was our golden horseshoe with him, he was clearly the best target for Seattle and the Leafs could have done a lot with his cap space. Now, McCann is clearly the top choice to select. But, the Leafs underpayed on him. Which makes sense especially if they have to now pay Seattle to protect him. It's essentially full price in two trades instead of one because of circumstance. What wouldn't make sense would be buying an asset better than the one on the roster for an asset more valuable than him plus a 7th.

I would have much rather had 3.5M in cap space and Hallander than Alex Kerfoot given the slam dunk it appeared to be pre-expansion that he was going. Which is why I just don't buy that something isn't lined up with Seattle. If there isn't he botched an easy lay up at the last second and I am furious to start the off-season.

I just don't think he is dumb enough to do that. McCann was an ideal target who Dubas had a chance to get because of expansion at a slightly reduced price. The 5 day process where no one is speaking is making people look at every angle, like they did with the exposed list, but he made the easy choice like he should of with that. He did the right thing and protected Holl, while leaving Kerfoot exposed, despite getting McCann making it easier to go 7-3-1. So, I'm going to have faith that he worked this out.

it's been reported there is no side deal with Seattle. This McCann deal is THE side deal. I think Dubas again just over thought this, they should have just done nothing and let Seattle take Kerfoot and then sign a cheaper replacement in UFA

 

[tronoleaf]

it's been reported there is no side deal with Seattle. This McCann deal is THE side deal. I think Dubas again just over thought this, they should have just done nothing and let Seattle take Kerfoot and then sign a cheaper replacement in UFA

If Seattle ends up taking McCann I am so done with Dubas.

 

[PromisedLand]

???? It happened to many other teams. You just get upset about it because it is Toronto.

The leafs got hit harder because they had the 2 biggest RFA contract right before

but teams are walking away from talent that would never have been considered before.

look around the league. Toronto actually did better than most navigating the cap.

First. This is not the right way to analyze the scenario. All the GMs in the league had anticipated cap increase and had to modify their plans given pandemic impacted every team in the league not just the Leafs.

Second, no GM in the league was DUMB enough to hand out three 11 AAV contracts on the team. Rantanen, Aho, Kucherov all signed for less than Marner.

How is it that you guys keep supporting the incompetence of dubas that has handcuffed the team and ruined any progress/future of the team; while claiming to be the fans of Toronto Maple Leafs is beyond me

 

[PromisedLand]

I like that Dubas is a creative and smart guy, but between: completely screwing up the Matthews/Marner contract, overpaying for Foligno when he's not what was needed, and protecting Holl (and I'm sure there's more), it's getting harder to defend him.

Committing to a 29 y/o bottom pair defenseman (just because he plays 20 mins doesn't mean he should) because he's 'your guy' is incredibly stubborn. I'll be pretty upset if SEA takes McCann.

did you forget the picks thrown away for Rittich and Hutton? what is "creative and smart" about that? I was supporting dubas' move for foligno until I found out that he was injured; dubas knew and made the trade anyway... i mean how does a competent GM do that? HOW?

 

[francis246]

If Seattle ends up taking McCann I am so done with Dubas.

why... it really isn't that big of a deal. The organization obviously values Kerfoot and what he brings and it makes sense, they frigging traded Kadri for him. So they better damn value him. At the end of the day I do believe in my heart that Kerfoot is who Seattle will take and we will end up with McCann. Kerfoot cost less actual dollars and has more term and can be flipped for assets

 

[Magic Man]

it's been reported there is no side deal with Seattle. This McCann deal is THE side deal. I think Dubas again just over thought this, they should have just done nothing and let Seattle take Kerfoot and then sign a cheaper replacement in UFA

Given how well of a fit McCann would have been on LW in Toronto and how useless Kerfoot is to Toronto. That would leave me pretty bitter. This was an easy situation to deal with coming in. Let them take Kerfoot and gain 3.5M in cap space for the next 2 years. Dermott wasn't close enough in talent to Kerfoot and Seattle needs a center. When the dust settles, now move that cap to fill in the roster with pieces like McCann.

Who was it that said there was no side deal? I think I saw an Athletic article or the start of it with James Mirtle or someone like him, but I think that may have been his own speculation.

 

[PromisedLand]

Do people even watch the games?

The leafs lost 2 years in a row because they couldn’t put the puck in the net when it mattered most. They were solid defensively in the playoffs.

McCann going to Seattle isn’t a foregone conclusion so maybe wait until after Wednesday to comment on that so confidently.

His dufus head coach is currently 2nd in all time NHL HC W%.

yea the offensive juggernauts like CBJ and Habs were shutdown for their offense by the defensive juggernaut called dubas/keefe's team. Bravo!

 

[mydnyte]

If Seattle ends up taking McCann I am so done with Dubas.

you'd have rather lost Kerfoot or Dermott vs Hallander and a 7th?

if Seattle picks McCann, you can just imagine he never existed, because if it wasnt an expansion draft trade, we wouldnt have got him at that price.
if we were 100% sure Seattle will take Johansen or any at risk of being picked player, we maybe could have them for Hallander and a 7th, would you have lamented the loss then too?

 

[WTFMAN99]

you'd have rather lost Kerfoot or Dermott vs Hallander and a 7th?

if Seattle picks McCann, you can just imagine he never existed, because if it wasnt an expansion draft trade, we wouldnt have got him at that price.
if we were 100% sure Seattle will take Johansen or any at risk of being picked player, we maybe could have them for Hallander and a 7th, would you have lamented the loss then too?

You could have kept McCann and Kerfoot.

 

[Leaf Fans]

it's been reported there is no side deal with Seattle. This McCann deal is THE side deal. I think Dubas again just over thought this, they should have just done nothing and let Seattle take Kerfoot and then sign a cheaper replacement in UFA

Hedging your bets in a minor deal is not overthinking. It was the smart move. We lose nothing that we wouldn't have lost anyway.

 

[Stand Witness]

Shiny new toy syndrome.

Its clear the Leafs don’t want to lose Kerfoot. It’s also clear they like McCann. They want to keep Kerfoot, but they are also more than happy to have McCann replace him (and save some cap).

At the end of the day, the cost for a side deal to keep Kerfoot was more than the cost to acquire McCann.

Instead we acquire a player who basically is equivalent to Kerfoot for less than the cost to keep Kerfoot.

I think there is a legit argument to protecting 7/3/1 (I would have). But the Leafs clearly feel the cost to acquire a Holl replacement is more than Hallander + 7th.

 

[PromisedLand]

Steve Dangle explained it if you watch his LFR video and it does make sense. Seattle is asking for a 1st and 3rd in order to not choose Kerfoot. That price is way too high. So Toronto decides lets pay Hallinder and a 7th instead to get Jared McCann. We expose Kerfoot, McCann and Dermott and make Seattle have a very tough decision. If Seattle takes Dermott, then we have McCann and Kerfoot and have filled a spot on the wing because one of them is playing LW and we only lose our 7th defenseman. If Seattle takes McCann, then essentially we payed a prospect and a 7th to keep Kerfoot which is cheaper than a 1st and 3rd. If Seattle takes Kerfoot then we at least have McCann who is probably an upgrade on Kerfoot and a slightly cheaper on the cap.

It's really a win win win situation

They could have gone 7-3-1

1. Matthews
2. Nylander
3. Tavares
4. Marner
5. Kerfoot
6. McCann
7. Spezza/Simmonds

Expose: Spezza/Simmonds

1. Rielly
2. Muzzin
3. Brodie

Expose: Holl/Dermott

Holl is being treated like he is the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr. He is a product of Muzzin; he is the softest tall D that I've ever seen. He doesn't bring any offense either. Guy is freakin' useless

 

[Mess]

C'mon Mess, this makes no sense. Every team (except for Vegas) has to expose players and will lose one. If Seattle takes Kerfoot, then we get to keep McCann...so it's Hallander and a 7th for McCann or Kerfoot.

It is the price of Kerfoot's replacement.

Leaf didn't protect him so the team is down a forward so they traded a prospect and pick for McCann who will take Kerfoot's NHL roster spot.

That is my point.

If the Leafs had protected both Kerfoot and McCann and +1 additional forward like 27 of the other 30 NHL teams going 7-3-1 then had they lost Holl or Dermott they simply could have re-signed Bogosian or promoted Sandin or Lilejren internally to absorb the loss. McCann becomes an addition to the forward ranks and not an instead of scenario.

Leafs were only 3 of 30 teams that valued Holl their 4th Dman worth the loss of protecting 2 extra forwards and going 4-4-1. But if your depth is so shallow at forward because of your top heavy spending on just 4 forwards then you don't have 7 players worth protecting and you have to go and spend more assets to replace and build up that forward group.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Could have kept Kerfoot & McCann

Risk Dermott/Holl

If it's Holl...who cares? People make a big fuss over him playing top 4 for 2M but the reality is he's not that good...we should be looking to upgrade. He's VERY reliant upon Muzzin to look competent.

Plus there's a 50% chance they take Dermott in that scenario vs 33% now. Forcing Seattle to choose between Dermott and Holl is the better play IMO. If we aren't even sure if Dermott could be a suitable or ever superior RD to Holl, Francis certainly isn't. Also would've given us a chance to add another forward better than Engvall and protect them. Our loss won't be significant regardless, but I think 7-3-1 was the better play.

 

[Leaf Fans]

They could have gone 7-3-1

1. Matthews
2. Nylander
3. Tavares
4. Marner
5. Kerfoot
6. McCann
7. Spezza/Simmonds

Expose: Spezza/Simmonds/Mikheyev

1. Rielly
2. Muzzin
3. Brodie

Expose: Holl/Dermott

Holl is being treated like he is the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr. He is a product of Muzzin; he is the softest tall D that I've ever seen. He doesn't bring any offense either. Guy is freakin' useless

Treated as the second coming of Bobby Orr by whom?

 

[mydnyte]

You could have kept McCann and Kerfoot.

maybe they dont really care as much as we do. i thought we'd go 7-3-1 when we got him, but, we dont know what Seattle told Dubas.
maybe they asked us to get McCann for them to pick for all we know because they may have wanted another Pitt player also.

 

[ottomaddox]

The people that are on Twitter schooling everyone seem to be wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the players Seattle can choose from:


Kerfoot, McCann, Dermott, Simmonds, Spezza, Engvall, and Brooks.

?

 

[Leaf Fans]

The people that are on Twitter schooling everyone seem to be wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the players Seattle can choose from:


Kerfoot, McCann, Dermott, Simmonds, Spezza, Engvall, and Brooks.

?

Yes, they can choose any one of those players and even others.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Plus there's a 50% chance they take Dermott in that scenario vs 33% now. Forcing Seattle to choose between Dermott and Holl is the better play IMO. If we aren't even sure if Dermott could be a suitable or ever superior RD to Holl, Francis certainly isn't. Also would've given us a chance to add another forward better than Engvall and protect them. Our loss won't be significant regardless, but I think 7-3-1 was the better play.

In limited sample size, Muzzin and Dermott paired together actually resulted in us outscoring the opposition 7-0

maybe they dont really care as much as we do. i thought we'd go 7-3-1 when we got him, but, we dont know what Seattle told Dubas.
maybe they asked us to get McCann for them to pick for all we know because they may have wanted another Pitt player also.

Is Dubas Seattle's errand boy?

 

[PromisedLand]

Treated as the second coming of Bobby Orr by whom?

Go through the thread and look at the overvaluing of Holl. People are bahving like he is the ultimate D. He sucks without muzzin. doesn't clear the crease, doesn't play body, and doesn't produce offense.

 

[Leaf Fans]

In limited sample size, Muzzin and Dermott paired together actually resulted in us outscoring the opposition 7-0



Is Dubas Seattle's errand boy?

No, of course not.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Go through the thread and look at the overvaluing of Holl. People are bahving like he is the ultimate D. He sucks without muzzin. doesn't clear the crease, doesn't play body, and doesn't produce offense.

He does all those things and still isn't considered close to Bobby Orr. He is however concidered more valuable than Hallander and a 7th.

 

[PromisedLand]

The people that are on Twitter schooling everyone seem to be wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the players Seattle can choose from:


Kerfoot, McCann, Dermott, Simmonds, Spezza, Engvall, and Brooks.

?

NHL Expansion Draft protected list for Kraken released

look for the Leafs under "available" disregard the folks that are UFAs

 

[mydnyte]

In limited sample size, Muzzin and Dermott paired together actually resulted in us outscoring the opposition 7-0



Is Dubas Seattle's errand boy?

Seattle is going to get at least 3 great goalies, i'd like to be on their good side and try to deal for one if i was a GM. ...and also a plethora of young high potential d-men, reciprocity is a good thing.

 

[francis246]

Given how well of a fit McCann would have been on LW in Toronto and how useless Kerfoot is to Toronto. That would leave me pretty bitter. This was an easy situation to deal with coming in. Let them take Kerfoot and gain 3.5M in cap space for the next 2 years. Dermott wasn't close enough in talent to Kerfoot and Seattle needs a center. When the dust settles, now move that cap to fill in the roster with pieces like McCann.

Who was it that said there was no side deal? I think I saw an Athletic article or the start of it with James Mirtle or someone like him, but I think that may have been his own speculation.

the issue with your plan, is we don't get McCann if we stand pat. Because McCann gets moved somewhere else by Pittsburgh or he gets taken by Seattle via Pittsburgh. McCann is a calculated risk. Which I think will work out for the leafs at the end of the day. But I def get where you're coming from.