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Confirmed with Link: Leafs go 4-4-1 in expansion, Dermott, Kerfoot, McCann, exposed

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I'm really just reserving judgement until we see the whole picture. It makes no sense to react all condescending towards management when we can't even see what's going on yet. If you react negatively to the protection list already, then you're just making a snap judgement. For all we know something is worked out. Now if Dubas makes a deal I don't like, I'm willing to be critical but it's just to early to call anything a "galaxy brain move"
 
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SprDaVE said:
None of those players are easy to replace. I think trying to replace your 2M defenseman that is signed for a couple more years who has shown plenty of good moments and plays a pretty good defensive role is fine to value highly. You're going to have a tough time trying to find a skating right handed 2M 6'5" defenseman on a 2 year deal.
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Holl doesn't play remotely physical so idk why you keep bringing up his size. When people say they want size what they really mean is that they want hitting. I don't really care about size, I just don't think there's a big difference between Holl and Dermott while there is a big difference between McCann and our next best forward.
 
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SprDaVE said:
I think the difference here is that Holl isn't seen as a bottom pairing defenseman and he didn't play bottom pairing minutes. I'm not sure you're going to get better than Holl at 2M for his quality and I think you're being incredibly generous if you think so.
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I think you couldve put Bogosian in his spot and got similar results.

Sure, he plays top 4 minutes. He doesnt play them well.

Just cause he got the minutes there doesnt mean he should have.
 
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TheDoldrums said:
Holl doesn't play remotely physical so idk why you keep bringing up his size. When people say size they actually mean hitting most of the time.
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His reach? His ability to stick check and use his body as a defensive tool rather than a physical one.

Also, Holl was 2nd on the team in total hits for the year. He does hit. He doesn't fight I guess?
 
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SprDaVE said:
His reach? His ability to stick check and use his body as a defensive tool rather than a physical one.

Also, Holl was 2nd on the team in total hits for the year. He does hit. He doesn't fight I guess?
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How many of those hits were memorable? I watched almost every game and I'm struggling to remember one. And yeah, he doesn't fight or stick up for his teammates or most stuff people want from a "big" defenseman.

Again, I don't really care about hitting. But when other people talk about getting a defenseman with size I don't think anyone imagines a Holl type. I'm just annoyed because I don't think there's a real gap between Holl and Dermott but there's a big drop from McCann to our other forwards.
 
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Jozay said:
I think you couldve put Bogosian in his spot and got similar results.

Sure, he plays top 4 minutes. He doesnt play them well.

Just cause he got the minutes there doesnt mean he should have.
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I think that's just not looking at this objectively. "You could put X there and he'd do fine". I can say the same about Kerfoot and say, someone like Brooks if I wanted too.

I think he does play them well for his price tag and I think he's fine.

But at the end of the day, I know this is a very popular opinion to have about Holl. I understand why they protected Holl and would like to keep him. He's cheap, efficient and capable. He's not great though and of course we could do better if the world didn't involve a salary cap.
 
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Outcome 1: kraken take anyone but Mccann - awesome, we took advantage of the situation to get Mccann cheap (hallander+ 7th)

Outcome 2: we make side deal, they take anyone but Mccann- likely still awesome, but depends on the side deal, acquidition cost on Mccann now includes whatever we gave up

Outcome 3: they take MCcann- our side deal was Hallander + 7th to come through expansion unscathed
 
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SprDaVE said:
I think that's just not looking at this objectively. "You could put X there and he'd do fine". I can say the same about Kerfoot and say, someone like Brooks if I wanted too.

I think he does play them well for his price tag and I think he's fine.

But at the end of the day, I know this is a very popular opinion to have. I understand why the protected Holl and would like to keep him. He's cheap, efficient and capable. He's not great though and of course we could do better if the world didn't involve a salary cap.
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Protecting holl means another year where lilijgren won't be in our top 4D. If we bring another 3RHD or Bogo back than he won't be in the NHL in his D+5 season as a full timer

I was hoping to lose holl and have dermott and Lilijgren battle for the 2RHD and 3RHD spots

We need to look at dealing lilijgren if he isn't in the long-term plans
 
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SprDaVE said:
I think that's just, again, just not looking at this objectively. "You could put X there and he'd do fine". I can say the same about Kerfoot and say, someone like Brooks if I wanted too.

I think he does play them well for his price tag and I think he's fine.

But at the end of the day, I know this is a very popular opinion to have. I understand why the protected Holl and would like to keep him. He's cheap, efficient and capable. He's not great though and of course we could do better if the world didn't involve a salary cap.
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You're completely ignoring the fact that he didnt do well in the top 4.

I dont care if you think he did well, you cant show anyone anything that would suggest he did lol

Reality is you think Holl is someone he isnt.

Anyways, if they lose Kerfoot all is well because you could argue that the cap flexibilty is worth it. Lets just hope that happens.
 
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Worse case scenario:

Hallander is our protection deal in that we keep 3 of McCann Kerfoot Dermott and Holl.

No need for another protection deal, we already paid with Hallander and got a 7th back.
 
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Morgs said:
I'm more upset it is sounding like another year of Liljegren not being "good enough" or "blocked" by trash like Holl.
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I get you there and I have him penciled into most of my lineups still, but as the 7th D.

I don't see how they can start him in the lineup without moving Sandin.

Lilj won't start in the top 4 and I don't see them icing a rookie bottom pair after last year. Sandin is ahead of lilj on the depth chart so it makes lilj either 7th or 8th man depending on Dermott.
 
hamzarocks said:
Protecting holl means another year where lilijgren won't be in our top 4D. If we bring another 3RHD or Bogo back than he won't be in the NHL in his D+5 season as a full timer

I was hoping to lose holl and have dermott and Lilijgren battle for the 2RHD and 3RHD spots

We need to look at dealing lilijgren if he isn't in the long-term plans
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It's a long off-season. I'm sure Liljegren will be on the next year, full time. This team has lacked defensive depth for a very long time. I like Lilejgren and all that but it's ok to give yourself some competition. The good players will play.
 
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Griffin76 said:
What is this galaxy brain that keeps getting mentioned? Is it a thing now?
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Urban Dictionary: Galaxy brain

Galaxy brain

Originating from the expanding brain meme, is a word that was once a compliment turned insult. Meaning to be an insult to those who believe they are smarter than they truly are.

"yeah, I thought he was cute but turns out he just another galaxy brained incel"
 
Dubas better have a blockbuster up his sleeve because the fanbase will completely turn on the core players/coaches/management if they intend to basically bring it all back as is except for Hyman and Andersen.
 
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Holl is serviceable at his price, but he's in over his head in the top 4, which was clear as day the last 2 playoff series. He wilted. You lose no size with Holl, just height.

I like protecting Dermott, but I'd gladly pay the 7th, Hallander for Seattle to take Holl.
 
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I don't think they acquire McCann to let him get taken. There must be an understanding already between the Leafs and Seattle.
 
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Brobust said:
Dubas better have a blockbuster up his sleeve because the fanbase will completely turn on the core players/coaches/management if they intend to basically bring it all back as is except for Hyman and Andersen.
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No, they won't.

Regardless, it's clear changes will be made. It's July 18th.
 
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