Proposal: Leafs - Flyers

[embracedbias]

18 year old SHL seasons, > 20 GP
Naslund: 39 GP, 39 pts, 1 PPG
Sandstrom: 36 GP, 36 pts, 1 PPG
Nylander: 21 GP, 20 pts, .952 PPG
D. Sedin: 50 GP, 42 pts, .84 PPG
Andersson: 38 GP, 31 pts, .816 PPG
Steen: 23 GP, 17 pts, .739 PPG
Forsberg: 39 GP, 28 pts, .718 PPG
H. Sedin: 49 GP, 34 pts, .694 PPG

18 year old AHL seasons, > 20 GP
Dome: 36 GP, 46 pts, 1.278 PPG
Pastrnak: 25 GP, 28 pts, 1.12 PPG
Nylander: 37 GP, 32 pts, .865 PPG
Filatov: 39 GP, 32 pts, .821 PPG
Prospal: 55 GP, 35 pts, .636 PPG
Bergfors: 65 GP, 40 pts, .615 PPG
Fiala: 33 GP, 20 pts, .606 PPG

19 year old AHL seasons
Spezza: 43 GP, 54 pts, 1.256 PPG
Nylander: 38 GP, 45 pts, 1.184 PPG
Rantanen: 52 GP, 60 pts, 1.154 PPG
Demitra: 41 GP, 41 pts, 1 PPG
Vrana; 36 GP, 34 pts, .944 PPG
Bergeron: 68 GP, 61 pts, .897 PPG
Voloshenko: 69 GP, 60 pts, .870 PPG
Hudler: 57 GP, 49 pts, .860 PPG
Elias: 74 GP, 63 pts, .851 PPG

 

[LoovTrain]

Wait a second.... Leafs Fans actually think Nylander is worth Provorov right now?


Holy ****.

So very predictable... and pathetic.

Credibility? You have none.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Close it up

Neither team really wants it

 

[WTFMAN99]

18 year old SHL seasons, > 20 GP
Naslund: 39 GP, 39 pts, 1 PPG
Sandstrom: 36 GP, 36 pts, 1 PPG
Nylander: 21 GP, 20 pts, .952 PPG
D. Sedin: 50 GP, 42 pts, .84 PPG
Andersson: 38 GP, 31 pts, .816 PPG
Steen: 23 GP, 17 pts, .739 PPG
Forsberg: 39 GP, 28 pts, .718 PPG
H. Sedin: 49 GP, 34 pts, .694 PPG

18 year old AHL seasons, > 20 GP
Dome: 36 GP, 46 pts, 1.278 PPG
Pastrnak: 25 GP, 28 pts, 1.12 PPG
Nylander: 37 GP, 32 pts, .865 PPG
Filatov: 39 GP, 32 pts, .821 PPG
Prospal: 55 GP, 35 pts, .636 PPG
Bergfors: 65 GP, 40 pts, .615 PPG
Fiala: 33 GP, 20 pts, .606 PPG

19 year old AHL seasons
Spezza: 43 GP, 54 pts, 1.256 PPG
Nylander: 38 GP, 45 pts, 1.184 PPG
Rantanen: 52 GP, 60 pts, 1.154 PPG
Demitra: 41 GP, 41 pts, 1 PPG
Vrana; 36 GP, 34 pts, .944 PPG
Bergeron: 68 GP, 61 pts, .897 PPG
Voloshenko: 69 GP, 60 pts, .870 PPG
Hudler: 57 GP, 49 pts, .860 PPG
Elias: 74 GP, 63 pts, .851 PPG

Before that concussion, I think Nylander could have improved upon that PT/Game.

 

[1865]

Talent wise they're certainly on par, but a #1D is more valuable and harder to find than a #1W so we keep Provo.

 

[bauer]

Centre, let's be fair here. Nylander played all of last year in the AHL and NHL as a centre. He's going to start at wing this year because we won Matthews, we have a lot of centre depth and it is easier to help him break into the league as a winger, no different then Zetterberg back in the day or Larkin last season with Detroit.

#1C would be his potential.

#1D would be Provorov's potential

We just saw Johansen go for Jones. I say both are equally valuable but it would depend on what what your defense and centre depth looks like when you make that trade.

It was easy for Nashville to do that - They had Weber (now Subban) and Ellis to hold down 1-2 RD slots.

Columbus got a wicked defenseman but nothing on the horizon really as a true #1C.

Leafs will play Nylander on the wing, that's the plan isn't it? he's not surpassing Matthews as the team's future #1 center. he'll either play on the wing, or be #2C.

that was an easy move for Nashville to make because they had no #1 C, and already had 2 elite D. no other team had that problem. you won't normally see trades like that. would Columbus trade Werenski for Nylander? I don't think they would. would the Canes trade Hanifin for Nylander? nope. it's no offence to Nylander, he'll be a great player. but those young top D prospects just have more value. because they are much, much harder to get.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Leafs will play Nylander on the wing, that's the plan isn't it? he's not surpassing Matthews as the team's future #1 center. he'll either play on the wing, or be #2C.

that was an easy move for Nashville to make because they had no #1 C, and already had 2 elite D. no other team had that problem. you won't normally see trades like that. would Columbus trade Werenski for Nylander? I don't think they would. would the Canes trade Hanifin for Nylander? nope. it's no offence to Nylander, he'll be a great player. but those young top D prospects just have more value. because they are much, much harder to get.

It's hard to say what teams would do RE: Carolina and Columbus. Their fans on HF have opinions of course, but we all see tons of deals each year that team's respective fan bases hate (and a lot of the time change their tune once they see the player that came in play more). So I can't say Hanifin/Werenski = or > Nylander. I think Werenski's value is probably on par with Nylander's value while Hanifin may have a touch more as he was taken higher in a recent draft. We're splitting hairs though, honestly it's very close.

Nylander was the #1C of the future but we lucked out big time and got Matthews and basically have great depth at centre right now, so we're going to break in Nylander on the wing this season, likely up until the trade deadline and if Nylander is doing well it is very possible you see Bozak dealt and Nylander shifts back into his preferred position of centre.

Basically Nylander for someone else's top prospect (in general) isn't really a giant insult of an offer as it's being made out to be on here.

I'm inclined to keep him as the 1-2 punch with Matthews of the future, but I'd be open minded if a high end RHD at the right age was made available but no need to shove him out the door, you know?

 

[4thline]

Leafs will play Nylander on the wing, that's the plan isn't it? he's not surpassing Matthews as the team's future #1 center. he'll either play on the wing, or be #2C.

He will be broken in on the wing this year, while taking rs faceoffs and gradually moving back to centre.

This has zero bearing on his value as a prospect. 1C potential before Matthews, 1C with Matthews. He can still hit that playing behind Matthews, or is Malkin a 2C right now?

 

[Starat327]

No offence taken and I will absolutely defer to the masses of scouts should they disagree but I've never heard or read these reports and find it surprising most professional scouts have that opinion. Any chance you could post some of the links to these consensus rankings, I would appreciate it and it will help me better understand what I'm obviously incapable of recognizing on my own.
Thank you.

I wouldnt say you are incapable of recognizing anything. And it's not all scouts saying this, but a decent amount are of the opinion that Sanheim is a little more boom-or-bust style, where his floor is probably a #4, but his ceiling is an elite #1. Provorov is the safer bet, which is why he gets ranked higher, because well, hes more likely to be the #1.

Ill try and find the links when i get home from work though.

 

[YEM]

if we could only combine the leafs' O prospects and the flyers D prospects onto one team building toward the future one of our teams might actually win a Cup this century...

 

[WTFMAN99]

if we could only combine the leafs' O prospects and the flyers D prospects onto one team building toward the future one of our teams might actually win a Cup this century...

Ha, it would actually be a sick team to watch.

 

[TOGuy14]

Talent wise they're certainly on par, but a #1D is more valuable and harder to find than a #1W so we keep Provo.

Where is the winger in this proposal? I thought we were talking about Nylander here...

 

[Gavy]

Brown doesn't have near the value of Sanheim. Sanheim doesn't have near the value of Nylander.
Nylander for Provorov is equal value wise but you don't trade blue chip prospects like Provorov and Nylander.

 

[Redline]

I wouldnt say you are incapable of recognizing anything. And it's not all scouts saying this, but a decent amount are of the opinion that Sanheim is a little more boom-or-bust style, where his floor is probably a #4, but his ceiling is an elite #1. Provorov is the safer bet, which is why he gets ranked higher, because well, hes more likely to be the #1.

Ill try and find the links when i get home from work though.

Never meant to suggest you would, it was strictly a self evaluation.
I wasn't implying anything of a confrontational nature I genuinely want to improve my ability to assess talent. I could see where some scouts based strictly on offensive creativity would prefer Sanheim but once all elements of a defenseman's responsibilities are factored in I wholeheartedly go with Provorov.
Again, two fantastic prospects you have there and IMO being out-rated by Provorov is no insult whatsoever, as nearly every defense prospect is in the same boat.

 

[Atomos2]

What are the Leafs adding for Proporov?

(-)Nylander

 

[Kamiccolo]

Where is the winger in this proposal? I thought we were talking about Nylander here...

This has been a trend to try and devalue him in any way they can, despite management being on ecord saying he is a C in the future, he had 22 points in 30 something games in the NHL as a C, and record breaking pro seasons at C.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Flyers have the d prospect depth to do this.


For the Leafs this is digging one hole to fill a different hole. Makes no sense for them.

 

[DrTucker]

It's hard to say what teams would do RE: Carolina and Columbus. Their fans on HF have opinions of course, but we all see tons of deals each year that team's respective fan bases hate (and a lot of the time change their tune once they see the player that came in play more). So I can't say Hanifin/Werenski = or > Nylander. I think Werenski's value is probably on par with Nylander's value while Hanifin may have a touch more as he was taken higher in a recent draft. We're splitting hairs though, honestly it's very close.

Nylander was the #1C of the future but we lucked out big time and got Matthews and basically have great depth at centre right now, so we're going to break in Nylander on the wing this season, likely up until the trade deadline and if Nylander is doing well it is very possible you see Bozak dealt and Nylander shifts back into his preferred position of centre.

Basically Nylander for someone else's top prospect (in general) isn't really a giant insult of an offer as it's being made out to be on here.

I'm inclined to keep him as the 1-2 punch with Matthews of the future, but I'd be open minded if a high end RHD at the right age was made available but no need to shove him out the door, you know?

+1 This is a pretty unbias, reasonable look at it.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Never meant to suggest you would, it was strictly a self evaluation.
I wasn't implying anything of a confrontational nature I genuinely want to improve my ability to assess talent. I could see where some scouts based strictly on offensive creativity would prefer Sanheim but once all elements of a defenseman's responsibilities are factored in I wholeheartedly go with Provorov.
Again, two fantastic prospects you have there and IMO being out-rated by Provorov is no insult whatsoever, as nearly every defense prospect is in the same boat.

Yeah, the argument for Sanheim's ceiling over Provorov's is basically the former's offensive dynamism and its relative value in today's game. It's the ability to get to the high percentage areas with the puck and the difficulty of effectively checking him 1v1.

For the record, I voted Provorov #1 in our board's poll, but do think Sanheim has a higher absolute ceiling, albeit one far less likely to be hit. I caught roughly 20+ games of Calgary and Brandon online this year, but did not see either in person if that matters to you.

 

[Starat327]

Never meant to suggest you would, it was strictly a self evaluation.
I wasn't implying anything of a confrontational nature I genuinely want to improve my ability to assess talent. I could see where some scouts based strictly on offensive creativity would prefer Sanheim but once all elements of a defenseman's responsibilities are factored in I wholeheartedly go with Provorov.
Again, two fantastic prospects you have there and IMO being out-rated by Provorov is no insult whatsoever, as nearly every defense prospect is in the same boat.

The idea is that if Sanheim reaches his absolute ceiling, its like mini-Karlsson. Lots of people talk about his lack of defensive play, but he isnt nearly as bad as he is made out to be. Its just HF rhetoric that an 'offensive' d-man cant be good at actual defense (read: Karlsson, Letang, Subban) when they actually arent bad at all. They just have an offensive game on a different level. Whereas Provorov is more well rounded, and his defensive game isnt far behind his offensive, if at all.

At the end of the day though, I agree with you I would take Provorov over Sanheim. It's like saying what would you rather have, ignoring age and contract of course - Doughty or Karlsson? And no, im not equating the flyers prospects to the players - just the roles.

 

[Halla]

Travis Sanheim for William Nylander

Leafs get their potential #1D prospect, Flyers get their potential #1C prospect

this is horribad for the leafs. want nylander? provorov would be the ask

 

[Halla]

What is wrong with Leaf fans...Nylander is the solution not the problem

the OP is an obvious flyers fan

 

[Halla]

Wait a second.... Leafs Fans actually think Nylander is worth Provorov right now?


Holy ****.

leafs fans think the guy tsn had rated as the #1 prospect not in the NHL ahead of someone else?


NOOOOOOOO...couldnt be. not hard to pinpoint the exact spot this thread devolved. silly leafs fans. how dare you think the leafs #8 pick is even in the same stratosphere as the flyers #7 pick lol

end thread/

 

[KingTux]

Neutral fan here (well more or less but you know), but Nylander for Provorov seems like a fair deal value and need wise.

 

[Tripod]

Neutral fan here (well more or less but you know), but Nylander for Provorov seems like a fair deal value and need wise.

Need wise???

Philly has Giroux and Couts at C....and MDZ and Gudas as a top pairing. How is trading Provy better for their needs?