Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
Kerfoot seeing these lineups is probably taking a couple Tylenol and doing some deep breath meditation. He knows he's in for a rough night.
GDT: Leafs @ Flames 9:00pm on SN1 and SNO
- Thread starter Burnie97
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Once
Stop ******* crying bro
- Jul 16, 2010
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Let's see how Joey Anderson play's but if he plays good, fully healthy, this seems the most logical for me.
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kerfoot-Mikheyev
Anderson-Boyd-Simmonds
Jumbo
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Bogosian
Campbell
Andersen
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
Outside of Barabanov, Simmonds has clearly been the worst player on this team. Like his numbers are straight up bottom of the NHL bad. Vesey has been a drag on possession as well, but not anywhere near as bad as Barabanov, Simmonds, or Spezza.
He's basically just saying Kerfoot is playing with two shit players
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
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Interesting stuff. I just looked at it briefly. When Bogosian is paired with any of Dermott or Lehtonen so his normal partners, he does well.
Dermott and Bogosian have been paired for over 50 minutes, and come out looking strong. Lehtonen and Bogosian have been paired for just 4 minutes, and look good but obviously small sample size.
To your first point, Bogosian and Muzzin have been paired for 8 minutes, and numbers are ugly which is likely being stuck after an expiring PK. You won't really ever see that pairing 5 on 5 in an actual shift.
Once
Stop ******* crying bro
- Jul 16, 2010
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I didn't see the context but agreed. Kerfs looked terrific this year.
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
I mean we are probably losing Dermott after this season regardless of how much he plays. Hasn't been able to push further up the lineup in the years he has been in the lineup. Bogo fills a role. I understand why he would be rotated out occasionally and it isn't the end of the world.
Leafsfan74
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2018
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I'm not sure why you and a few others target Bogosian. I will keep speaking the reality because I've seen how soft this defense has looked the last number of years. Are we going to go back to leaving Muzzin out there alone to deal with the physicality of the game? Dubas wanted a presence. Bogosian is one of those guys that provides a presence. I'm seeing the entire D play with more commitment this year.
Bogosian has 11 hits this year, only two back of Muzzin for the D lead and he plays far fewer minutes as a bottom pair. In the last win he blocked 5 shots, most on the team (second was Matthews with 2). Last game I saw Leaf teammates patting Bogosian on the back as he made his way to the bench after blocking a shot on the PK. Teams win Cups with guys like these. The D is more built for a playoff series and we haven't even seen them play their best yet.
Of all the ridiculous stuff I have heard from Leaf fans, going after Bogosian, a bottom pair guy who kills penalties and gets credit from his goalies and teammates alike for playing with a pair, is right up there. Might not be as bad as some who yelled that Matthews should be traded a couple of years ago, but I have to wonder if everyone is watching the same games I have been watching.
I normally wouldn't care to constantly make the point, but I feel the criticism is so off the mark it has to be said. Last year we were talking about how weak this D was. Were you posting advanced stats of our team after we got knocked out once again, by a more committed team? Or were those stats not available?
Leafsfan74
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- Jul 2, 2018
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I think taking Bogo out of the line up would be an awful decision. Making no sense whatsoever from what I have seen. We need defenseman to play D first and make it difficult for opposing teams to drive the net. Not an easy chore for even the best.
I'm not a loyal fan of Brian Burke, but he wasn't wrong about Leafs needing to be tougher to play against this year. For the first time in awhile, I was hoping Leafs could re-sign a player like Clifford. I think he would have been a great guy to have here this year in this lineup. Simply due to the sprint to the finish and constant games against the same teams, and we know the hockey is going to get more desperate, sooner.
You can have all the skill in the world up front, if you don't have committed, solid D in the back, you are wasting all of your cap space on a quick playoff exit.
stickty111
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2017
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Leafs offered a 3 year deal, he didn't take it.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
Honestly, I don't remember Cliff looking all that tough last year...
I'd rather bring in some guys that can skate, forecheck effectively, hit when they have the D on their heels, etc. Clifford could skate alright but he never really threw his body around too much for us.
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
To me he looked to slow to actually effectively forecheck anyone. By the time he got to the defenders the puck was long gone. I was extremely happy he wasn't brought back after what I saw last season while he was here.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
Exactly, he could never get to the puck carrier to make the hit, and couldn't read the play well enough to anticipate where the puck was going.
Hockey Crazy
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- Dec 30, 2008
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Leafsfan74
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2018
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In theory, yes, I'd prefer players who can provide some offensive upside up front. However, he could be a crasher on the 4th line to put some traffic in front if that was what his role was to be.
For me the Leafs biggest deficits was lack of toughness on D (overall yes, but lacking it in the backend is horrific) and lack of desire to get a net presence.
I'm seeing guys do it more this year. Certainly Matthews did against the Habs. Clifford could have played that role and also engaged in extra curriculum activities if needed. I don't think he found his game totally as he came in at the deadline.
Evidence of how much Dubas valued him is the fact he offered him a 2 year deal, if reports are correct. For Dubas to do that, suggests he realized how important his presence was.
That word, presence. I first heard it referred to by Dubas in the offseason and I couldn't find a better word if I could recite the entire lexicon of the English language. This is indeed what this young-ish, team needed.
Leafsfan74
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2018
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Oh it was three, I thought it was only two. Wow. That puts an exclamation point on the value Dubas placed on him. Not misfounded, I would suggest, and I'm not the guy looking for a goon. All NHLers can play, he was only fighting to generate a spark.
I don't know what was going on obviously, but, Clifford might have overvalued the market not appreciating the entire Covid-19 issue. I liked what he brought because he did it without taking unnecessary penalties. A nice, solid presence and a big body who was legit for his role.
This team can use that on the 4th line. If not him, the guys in there have to bring that forecheck and spark via a drive to the net. That's what I personally ask from depth players in particular. They don't have to fight, but they need to compete and get on their D.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Eh I'm not married to bogo fulltime but he's been mostly fine so far and I'm not too eager to put either dermott or lehtonen on the right side.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Would be an awesome night if we can get 2 points in regulation and TkaSUCKS face lands on a knuckles sandwiches from Simmonds
Warden of the North
Ned Stark's head
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
losing dermott to expansion will be stupid asset management. At present; Leafs top4 has no space with Rielly-Brodie and Muzzin-Holl. It is less about Dermott's capability. I am sure we will be able to re-sign Rielly at a reasonable cap hit; incase Mo walks as a UFA we will need someone to fill his spot. I dont expect Sandin/Lily to fill top4 duties right off the bat
Nylander88
Registered User
Never know. It could work. Vesey has been known to hit or fight at times. Not often, but like Hyman often. Maybe pairing him with Simmonds will work. Kerfoot when he gets a bit fiesty can be very effective...maybe this line will work the cycle around nicely.
I won't bash it until I see it. Thornton on the top line made no sense to me, yet it kinda works somehow
Nylander88
Registered User
I agree. Read that we're off to our best defensive start in some time. Why mess with it? Bogo has done his job as a bottom pairing vet imo
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