Leafs Core Beyond the 2013-14 - EDIT Retool or Blow it up?

[La Bamba]

I ran through the numbers for next year, thanks to Cap Geek.

I think the ideal trade for Kadri is young, controllable players that presumably have fallen out of favour with their current teams.

I wonder how people would feel about trading Kadri and a 3rd/Holland for Yakupov and Nurse. Would Edmonton do it? Would they think about it?

Justing browsing through Leafs forums and saw this...

I had to cringe at that trade proposal. I'm not sure what one could be smoking to even think this is remotely realistic.

 

[ECanuck]

How to explain the leafs core? It's very difficult. You say they have no heart, no leadership and crumble when the pressure is on. Well that is true but not for what you think. Do these guys want to win. Sure they do! Are they trying? Sure they are. Although, it might not look like it on the surface. What we have here is a souped up 1.3L engine. It performs nice under less stressful circumstances. But when the pressure is on it has to compete with 3L and 6L engines. After a few laps the 1.3L has some major breakdowns and is out of the race. This core is not able to perform at that pace when the chips are down against a much more durable opponent.

If you can't see that the core is the problem then nothing will help. Trading Gardiner is not going to fix nothing for you. It's like replacing the air filter and exhaust and thinking the 1.3L is not going to break down again when high speeds are called upon for it to rev at 20000 rpm.

 

[Paradoc]

I ran through the numbers for next year, thanks to Cap Geek.

I think the ideal trade for Kadri is young, controllable players that presumably have fallen out of favour with their current teams.

I wonder how people would feel about trading Kadri and a 3rd/Holland for Yakupov and Nurse. Would Edmonton do it? Would they think about it?

That's like trading Kadri + Rielly for Gagner + 3rd. No way Edmonton does that trade.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

How to explain the leafs core? It's very difficult. You say they have no heart, no leadership and crumble when the pressure is on. Well that is true but not for what you think. Do these guys want to win. Sure they do! Are they trying? Sure they are. Although, it might not look like it on the surface. What we have here is a souped up 1.3L engine. It performs nice under less stressful circumstances. But when the pressure is on it has to compete with 3L and 6L engines. After a few laps the 1.3L has some major breakdowns and is out of the race. This core is not able to perform at that pace when the chips are down against a much more durable opponent.

If you can't see that the core is the problem then nothing will help. Trading Gardiner is not going to fix nothing for you. It's like replacing the air filter and exhaust and thinking the 1.3L is not going to break down again when high speeds are called upon for it to rev at 20000 rpm.

Can't disagree with the first sentence or 2.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

First thing I would look to do at the draft is calling Chuck Fletcher in Minnesota. That team has spent a fortune, trying to take the next step in the west, and are not quite there. the pressure there is on to perform and become one of the elite teams in the west. If they bow out early in the playoffs, they will become desperate; they may be willing to make a bold move. What I propose:

To MIN
Kessel (Wisconsin boy)
Reimer
Percy
Another pick/prospect

To Tor
Charlie Coyle
Matt Dumba
2014 2nd rounder
2015 1st rounder
Danny Heatley (Cap relief for the Wild, only 1 season on contract left.)

Of course, this is all dreaming in technicolor; but BIG moves must be made at this point. Time to look to the future here, and building around a core of Bernier, Rielly, JVR, Coyle, Dumba, and stockpiling early round picks I believe is the way things have to go.

next season would be the best season to be the worst team in the league. Connor McDavid in Blue & White would be the nicest silver lining I can think of. Not to mention we have his high scoring linemate already in our system.

Yeah, I've gone from the encouragement I've felt from the past few seasons to full on Anger; but watching this complete utter Bull$h!t for 30yrs of my life will do that. Time to get serious in TO.

That would definitely be a "sell the farm" for an "all-in now" type trade -> Kessel and some lesser bits for two solid prospects + qty two 1st rounders.

 

[nidnus13]

Here is my bold prediction........Our lame duck GM will sign a defenceman who we could of got for peanuts at the deadline to actually help our playoff push someone like Mike Weaver, then he will re-sign Bolland to a 4-5 year deal, and keep Carlyle around and say something like Burke told us, like he didn't give Carlyle the proper players and he had an injured line-up and he gets another shot this year and it's up to the players now to try harder.

 

[grits207]

Kessel and JVR should be pretty much untouchable. I'd be OK with moving Kadri but only if we got a player of similar age and skill level in return, that seems very unlikely so he is likely staying too. Lupul seems like the most logical member of our top 6 forwards to be traded. We likely wouldn't get a great return for him but it would be worth it just to free up cap space.

On defense, Rielly should be the only untouchable. I would be OK with Gardiner being traded but only if it is part of a package for a top 6 two-way center or a top 4 shutdown defenseman.

All in all I don't think this core really needs to be blown up but we need to do whatever it takes to land a big center and and good defensive defenseman. I know Darren Dreger was saying a couple weeks ago that Carolina would consider trading Eric Staal this summer. If that is true Nonis needs to do absolutely everything he can (aside from trading Rielly or Kessel) to bring him to Toronto.

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

Here is my bold prediction........Our lame duck GM will sign a defenceman who we could of got for peanuts at the deadline to actually help our playoff push someone like Mike Weaver, then he will re-sign Bolland to a 4-5 year deal, and keep Carlyle around and say something like Burke told us, like he didn't give Carlyle the proper players and he had an injured line-up and he gets another shot this year and it's up to the players now to try harder.

I think it'll be more along the lines of "Well, we were a playoff team 90% of the season, if we play this season 100 times I don't think this happens again, etc. etc."

 

[ECanuck]

Kessel and JVR should be pretty much untouchable. I'd be OK with moving Kadri but only if we got a player of similar age and skill level in return, that seems very unlikely so he is likely staying too. Lupul seems like the most logical member of our top 6 forwards to be traded. We likely wouldn't get a great return for him but it would be worth it just to free up cap space.

On defense, Rielly should be the only untouchable. I would be OK with Gardiner being traded but only if it is part of a package for a top 6 two-way center or a top 4 shutdown defenseman.

All in all I don't think this core really needs to be blown up but we need to do whatever it takes to land a big center and and good defensive defenseman. I know Darren Dreger was saying a couple weeks ago that Carolina would consider trading Eric Staal this summer. If that is true Nonis needs to do absolutely everything he can (aside from trading Rielly or Kessel) to bring him to Toronto.

Move him out to a more rounded team where he can just be one of the players. He can just do what he does and score goals.

Number two do NOT want.

We need young guys and I don't mean 30 and getting payed 8 million.

 

[nidnus13]

I think it'll be more along the lines of "Well, we were a playoff team 90% of the season, if we play this season 100 times I don't think this happens again, etc. etc."

Yeah that sounds about right!

 

[Teeder9]

Kessel and JVR should be pretty much untouchable. I'd be OK with moving Kadri but only if we got a player of similar age and skill level in return, that seems very unlikely so he is likely staying too. Lupul seems like the most logical member of our top 6 forwards to be traded. We likely wouldn't get a great return for him but it would be worth it just to free up cap space.

On defense, Rielly should be the only untouchable. I would be OK with Gardiner being traded but only if it is part of a package for a top 6 two-way center or a top 4 shutdown defenseman.

All in all I don't think this core really needs to be blown up but we need to do whatever it takes to land a big center and and good defensive defenseman. I know Darren Dreger was saying a couple weeks ago that Carolina would consider trading Eric Staal this summer. If that is true Nonis needs to do absolutely everything he can (aside from trading Rielly or Kessel) to bring him to Toronto.

Why would Carolina move E.Staal?

 

[rimshot]

The best move the Leafs could make this summer would be to acquire Hitchcock,Tippet or Babcock. Since that isn't going to happen, I would fire all of Carlyle's assistants, especially Farrish and the coach responsible for the worst penalty kill team I have seen since the year before last.

 

[The Legend]

Justing browsing through Leafs forums and saw this...

I had to cringe at that trade proposal. I'm not sure what one could be smoking to even think this is remotely realistic.

Who do you think is more valuable? Kadri or Yakupov?

 

[grits207]

Move him out to a more rounded team where he can just be one of the players. He can just do what he does and score goals.

Number two do NOT want.

We need young guys and I don't mean 30 and getting payed 8 million.

How many young, cheap 1st line centers do you typically see on the trade market? 1st line centers rarely become available, if we are going to add one we aren't exactly going to have many options. I suppose we could always just stick with the status quo...

Why would Carolina move E.Staal?

According to Dreger their owner wants them to cut a bunch of salary.

 

[frankthetank91]

Keep:

Gardiner
Rielly
Bernier
Kessel
JVR

Keep if good contract:

Raymond
Bozak
Lupul
Kulemin
McClement
Gunnarsson
Gleason

Last chance to prove themselves or are gone:

Kadri
Bolland
Reimer
Ranger
Orr

Get rid of:

Phaneuf
Franson
Clarkson

Acquire:

-Players with HEART, who CARE when the team is LOSING.
-I don't believe Carlyle is the problem, I believe that if it wasn't for Carlyle we would be competing for the first overall pick with Buffalo right now. We need players with heart like Grabovski and McCarthur were until the buffoon running this team got rid of them and signed Clark$on.

So let me get this straight. Essentially you want to keep everyone except get rid of the 2 most unmovable contracts on the team + Franson.

Also half the guys in the "keep if good contract" category are already signed. I don't understand.

Also Orr should never be in a "one more chance to prove himself" category. I don't think he's going to round into a top 6 power forward any time soon. He is a ****** 4th liner.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Play with the cap floor and rebuild properly

 

[The Legend]

That's like trading Kadri + Rielly for Gagner + 3rd. No way Edmonton does that trade.

I don't know that much about prospects, just what I've read on the internet and HF. And I don't know much about players, besides just from looking at their regular and advanced stats and Cap Geek pages pretty regularly,

But it seems to me that saying Kadri is equal to Gagner is wrong. That saying Yakupov is equal to Kadri is wrong. And saying that Nurse is equal to Rielly is wrong.

So no - it's not the same at all.

 

[akademiks]

The lineup just needs to be retooled. JVR, Bozak and Kessel won't stay together forever and unless we magically find that #1C, players need to come in and fill certain roles. For instance, keep Kadri, let go of Raymond and Lupul. Keep Bolland and Clarkson (obviously). Keep Kulemin (if possible), somehow get Komarov back and work with the rest that you have.

Something like:

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
______ - Kadri - ______
Kulemin - Bolland - Komarov
Bodie - ______ - Clarkson

With the option to rotate players throughout all the lines as necessary, depending on performance.

Defense should look like this:

Gardiner - Reilly
Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Franson

And find a proper backup to Bernier, I have a feeling there's going to be a good house cleaning in the off season.

 

[dunga]

who they keep. who goes

Another massive collapse. A loser is a loser.

Keep Reilly, Bernier, and the top line. (although I would consider trading the top line players in a perfect deal)

1. Fire Nonis (for Clarkson and Pheneuf deals alone)
2. Fire Randy (a coach cannot come back after 3 complete collapses - not to mention shots against and lack of defense)
3. Take back any other bad contracts necessary to unload Clarkson and Pheneuf. Another 7 years of this will be torture.
4. Do not sign Franson, or Kulemin next year.
5. Trade Kadri.
6. Bring back Bolland only for 1 year - needs to prove he can play again.
7 New role players for next year - bring in some Marlies - they look like a flat out better team.

I can only hope Leiweke goes mental, and brings in some winners.
With the money lost in playoff revenue and TV ratings revenue, the negative impact to Bell and Rogers is massive - they will insist on change.

 

[Audi*]

Keep Nonis
Keep Randy

Franson - can't play defense, defense wins championships
Lupul - can't play defense, defense wins championships
Kadri - can't play defense, defense wins championships
Gardiner - can't play defense, defense wins championships
Kessel - every team needs a 30-40 goal scorer, but if we're offered a package of impact 2 way- forwards in return - can't play defense, defense wins championships

Kulemin is exactly the guy you need to keep , not sure where you're coming up with that

 

[Teeder9]

Another massive collapse. A loser is a loser.

Keep Reilly, Bernier, and the top line. (although I would consider trading the top line players in a perfect deal)

1. Fire Nonis (for Clarkson and Pheneuf deals alone)
2. Fire Randy (a coach cannot come back after 3 complete collapses - not to mention shots against and lack of defense)
3. Take back any other bad contracts necessary to unload Clarkson and Pheneuf. Another 7 years of this will be torture.
4. Do not sign Franson, or Kulemin next year.
5. Trade Kadri.
6. Bring back Bolland only for 1 year - needs to prove he can play again.
7 New role players for next year - bring in some Marlies - they look like a flat out better team.

I can only hope Leiweke goes mental, and brings in some winners.
With the money lost in playoff revenue and TV ratings revenue, the negative impact to Bell and Rogers is massive - they will insist on change.

Not feasible. While we have no money to spend to upgrade, we also still have to stay at a floor. That's 21m spent and unless you are signing free agents, (who is coming to a gutted team?) to huge undeserving contracts, which put us right back to this point anyway, you have no choice but to make the best of it. As long as Bernier, Kessel and JVR want to stay here, Phaneuf, Clarkson, and Lupul are also here. Sucks

 

[DaveT83*]

Another massive collapse. A loser is a loser.

Keep Reilly, Bernier, and the top line. (although I would consider trading the top line players in a perfect deal)

1. Fire Nonis (for Clarkson and Pheneuf deals alone)
2. Fire Randy (a coach cannot come back after 3 complete collapses - not to mention shots against and lack of defense)
3. Take back any other bad contracts necessary to unload Clarkson and Pheneuf. Another 7 years of this will be torture.
4. Do not sign Franson, or Kulemin next year.
5. Trade Kadri.
6. Bring back Bolland only for 1 year - needs to prove he can play again.
7 New role players for next year - bring in some Marlies - they look like a flat out better team.

I can only hope Leiweke goes mental, and brings in some winners.
With the money lost in playoff revenue and TV ratings revenue, the negative impact to Bell and Rogers is massive - they will insist on change.

1. Bernier is not going to be an asset for a rebuilding team. He's a winner. He wants to win. He's proven to the rest of the NHL that he's an ELITE talent. Best to maximize this - rather than Overpaying him which is assuredly what it would take to retain his services.

2. Bolland - has never been able to 'play' - another in a long line of severely overrated players in T.O - go ask Chicago how much they enjoyed having him on their 4th line when he was healthy

Everything else is spot on - not sure what can be done with Kessel (NMC) but its worth looking into receiving anything of value for this puke.

 

[Audi*]

Not feasible. While we have no money to spend to upgrade, we also still have to stay at a floor. That's 21m spent and unless you are signing free agents, (who is coming to a gutted team?) to huge undeserving contracts, which put us right back to this point anyway, you have no choice but to make the best of it. As long as Bernier, Kessel and JVR want to stay here, Phaneuf, Clarkson, and Lupul are also here. Sucks

Lupul is expandable IMO

Phaneuf and Clarkson are staying with Kessel JVR and Bernier no matter which way you spin it

 

[Teeder9]

Lupul is expandable IMO

Phaneuf and Clarkson are staying with Kessel JVR and Bernier no matter which way you spin it

Neither here nor there really. We aren't getting someone better in a trade for Lupul, we have no one in the minors that is better right now (Leivo maybe in 2-3 years), and unless you are signing Moulson to even longer term and money, which is rather stupid all things considered, there is no one in free agency worth it either.

 

[Audi*]

Neither here nor there really. We aren't getting someone better in a trade for Lupul, we have no one in the minors that is better right now (Leivo maybe in 2-3 years), and unless you are signing Moulson to even longer term and money, which is rather stupid all things considered, there is no one in free agency worth it either.

I would look to trade him for a Dman to fill in for Gardiner.

This team will never go anywhere with Gardiner as a top 4 D. He's a puck moving powerplay specialist at best. A worse version of Kaberle. Where has Kaberle ever lead any team? Kid has had enough time to prove that he's too stupid to comprehend simple defensive tasks. Time to go

Hell i'd even package Lupul AND Gardiner for a real DEFENSEman