Excellent number 2? Phaneuf is so overated around here, he is one of the slowest guys in the league, he is soft, he doesn't hit very much, he definitely isn't tough and he is way too offense minded always pinching and behind the oppositions goal line more times than some of our forwards. He telegraphs his passes there is nothing slick or deceptive about his game.
Leafs Core Beyond the 2013-14 - EDIT Retool or Blow it up?
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Excellent number 2? Phaneuf is so overated around here, he is one of the slowest guys in the league, he is soft, he doesn't hit very much, he definitely isn't tough and he is way too offense minded always pinching and behind the oppositions goal line more times than some of our forwards. He telegraphs his passes there is nothing slick or deceptive about his game.
In only 15 games did we outshoot a team
The goals that we gave up last night we because of turning over the puck. This has been an issue with this team for as long as I can remember. You cant blame that on the coach.
You can bring in a coach with a new approach but it is not going to change the fact that we as a team are not committed to playing the game the right way.
We have to get players that manage the puck better.
And as I heard on the game last night teams are saying that our forwards dont support our D ( which is also visable when you watch these clowns.
They dont wish to play that way or dont give a ****.
Half or more of these players need to go.
TheVision
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First thing I would look to do at the draft is calling Chuck Fletcher in Minnesota. That team has spent a fortune, trying to take the next step in the west, and are not quite there. the pressure there is on to perform and become one of the elite teams in the west. If they bow out early in the playoffs, they will become desperate; they may be willing to make a bold move. What I propose:
To MIN
Kessel (Wisconsin boy)
Reimer
Percy
Another pick/prospect
To Tor
Charlie Coyle
Matt Dumba
2014 2nd rounder
2015 1st rounder
Danny Heatley (Cap relief for the Wild, only 1 season on contract left.)
Of course, this is all dreaming in technicolor; but BIG moves must be made at this point. Time to look to the future here, and building around a core of Bernier, Rielly, JVR, Coyle, Dumba, and stockpiling early round picks I believe is the way things have to go.
next season would be the best season to be the worst team in the league. Connor McDavid in Blue & White would be the nicest silver lining I can think of. Not to mention we have his high scoring linemate already in our system.
Yeah, I've gone from the encouragement I've felt from the past few seasons to full on Anger; but watching this complete utter Bull$h!t for 30yrs of my life will do that. Time to get serious in TO.
To MIN
Kessel (Wisconsin boy)
Reimer
Percy
Another pick/prospect
To Tor
Charlie Coyle
Matt Dumba
2014 2nd rounder
2015 1st rounder
Danny Heatley (Cap relief for the Wild, only 1 season on contract left.)
Of course, this is all dreaming in technicolor; but BIG moves must be made at this point. Time to look to the future here, and building around a core of Bernier, Rielly, JVR, Coyle, Dumba, and stockpiling early round picks I believe is the way things have to go.
next season would be the best season to be the worst team in the league. Connor McDavid in Blue & White would be the nicest silver lining I can think of. Not to mention we have his high scoring linemate already in our system.
Yeah, I've gone from the encouragement I've felt from the past few seasons to full on Anger; but watching this complete utter Bull$h!t for 30yrs of my life will do that. Time to get serious in TO.
HoweHullOrr
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Tavares would be great. Not sure Islanders would be interested. Kadri has offensive talent, but so far hasn't shown he has the necessary defensive skills and acumen to be a top echelon player. Kessel while being one of the very best sniper's in the league is not an all-three zone player.
Neither of the two players were clutch last night when we needed it the most.
If we are going to talk about Tavares, why not throw Toews into the mix?
Sadly, I think the Leafs will have to be patient. Hitting home runs through FA and trades is very difficult and a slippery slope. Been there, done that.
The Buds definitely need some additions to their blue line. They have some good young pieces already now (Reilly, and even Gardiner who I think has the tools and will become more solid over time). Perhaps they have players in their system that can help and eventually step up. We have to hope these players pan out after a "10-year rebuild".
Unfortunately Phaneuf's physical skills/capabilities will diminish as the years progress. If we are projecting a few years out (e.g. 3 - 4) when Reilly and Gardiner are starting to hit their prime, I can see Phaneuf not being a core piece or part of the picture. But that situation will likely be put on hold in the near term and will be addressed down the road.
The overall team D needs to tighten up and the GA problem needs to be addressed. This could be in part coaching and lack of system. If there are problems here, they need to be addressed, regardless of which direction those adjustments push us in.
Some patience is required. If we are going to get a 10 - 14 range pick this summer, and maybe next, then its time to take advantage of this. That is the purpose of the draft. Of course, we'll see what kind of scouting and talent evaluation personnel Burke really acquired during his tenure.
We would absolutely be a great #2. You forget that for most of the season he was a stalwart on the Leafs blue line. Psychologically though he bviously can't take the pressure of the role he's been given, as evidenced by the last month and last year's playoffs.
Insulate him and he'll be of real value.
Unless you're getting a better player in the deal, which is near impossible, it would be extremely foolish to trade Kessel. He's one of the best in the league at doing what he does, which is produce offensively. Lack of defensive leadership and defensive play is not the fault of a young elite winger.
TheVision
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He is absolutely one of the best in the league at scoring, no question. But how's that working out for the Leafs the last 4 seasons? If he has to become a sacrificial lamb to get a nice hefty return of decent-very good futures, I make that trade in a heartbeat. How many more years can we sit and watch him being one of the best on a VERY bad team. I'd much rather trade watching Phil being one of the best pure goal scorers in the NHL for a package that can be a big part of a rebuild for the future of the TEAM. Realistically, who on this team will get you ANYTHING of great value in return? Cody Franson? james Reimer? Kadri? Even Phaneuf wouldn't get you as much as you think in return. Oh I forgot David Clarkson, he would bring back the most hands down.
Like I said, if you can get a better player out of it than Kessel, fantastic. But you suggest giving him up for a package of lesser assets. I don't think that's going to help the Leafs win hockey games. You win games by putting the puck in more than the other team. Don't sacrifice your ability to score to MAYBE improve team defense.
Kessel played great in the Boston series last year and was even hard in his own zone. He is pretty much the same as Patrick Kane. Would the Hawks trade Kane?
The difference is the talent support Kane has is unreal and the Leafs not so much. Give Kessel a 2nd line that can score and a coach who demands accountability like Joel Quenville and you will not be talking about moving Kessel
TheVision
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Again, I won't disagree with this at all. I like Phil, even if he is a giveaway machine; he does make up for that in many other ways.
And yes, if the Hawks had to, they'd move Kane as well. Nobody is untouchable. The point I'm making is 1) Kessel will fetch the absolute most in trade and 2) there are teams desperate enough to part with some very nice pieces to obtain a guy like Phil to put them in a better position to become an elite team.
How do you propose they go find a 2nd line of scoring? Lupul is made of glass, and as much as I like Joffrey as a person and leader, he just won't get you much in return. Kadri, I've been a broken record on how much I just can't stand him for years, so I will go no further on that one. And....oh right the other winger on the 2nd line, who is that again?
Quick rebuild/ retool:
Kessel--> anaheim for linholm +etem + otta 1st (drastisl, dal colle)
Phaneuf+ kadri--> edmontons 1st (ekblad)
Lupul---> anywhere for a late 1st +
Our pick--> draft ritchie/mccan/ho-sang
Build through the ****ing draft just build it properly
Kessel--> anaheim for linholm +etem + otta 1st (drastisl, dal colle)
Phaneuf+ kadri--> edmontons 1st (ekblad)
Lupul---> anywhere for a late 1st +
Our pick--> draft ritchie/mccan/ho-sang
Build through the ****ing draft just build it properly
HoweHullOrr
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CerebralDevil
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Holy S***! Im not down for all of that, although I do believe getting rid of some dead weight but Kessel should not be traded. Kessel is the only one working out there and showing frustration. Phaneuf will not get what people think, and Lupal isn't at fault when his center has disappeared for the past 21 games, and Kulemin is offensively Pejorative Slured.
Heatley is a UFA at year's end. No need to include him
I think your proposal is a bit too outlandish for both sides. But I do think Minnesota is feeling the pressure. They keep going out and throwing picks away to bring in guys but still aren't winning.
Phaneuf for Brodin +
Brodin is 20 and playing 20+ minutes a night in Minnesota. I bet the Wild would love to have Dion to pair with Suter.
If you trade Phaneuf, then package Lupul then the core of the team is all 25 and under (except Bozak).
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Now that everyone has had a night to sleep on it, the good news is Colorado and TB finished last and 3rd last last season and now find themselves in the playoffs in one year.
Maybe the Leafs can emulate this with the proper addition of players.
Maybe the Leafs can emulate this with the proper addition of players.
Bardown warrior
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The difference is they got guys with all the potential in the world. aka Duchene, Orielly. They were only that bad because they needed time to grow and develop.. Maybe you can say the same thing about Toronto with young guys like Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri We'll see.
A better notable would be Montreal from a couple years back when they got the 3rd overall pick in Galchenyuk... That season was really odd
Atomos2
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If we are trading Kessel to Minni, Brodin is in play. I won't except anything else
weems
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Why would Minny do this?
Brodin is a absolute stud. Even tho he's not been as good this season compared to last, he costs only 800 grand next season and has the potential to be almost just as good as Phaneuf right now. If I was them I wouldnt be giving up such a talented young player for a guy whos looking like quite the albatross going forward.
Them giving up Brodin for Kessel makes alot of sense.....Not Phaneuf
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Let's tank it out, and hopefully draft a guy like Bennett and add him to Rielly.
Bozak, Kessel, and JVR are still one of the top lines in hockey, Bernier is still one of the top goalies in the NHL, Gunnar a solid D man.
As for the rest. Dion, Kadri, Gardiner, Lupul, Clarkson, Reimer. Move some of these one flawed pieces this summer and go from there.
Just Rude
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Because Minnesota isn't looking for potential right now -- they're looking for results. Why did LA trade guys with potential in Simmonds and Schenn? Why did Columbus trade a guy with potential in Couturier?
Minnesota has 20 million in cap space next season with their core intact. Do you not think they'd like a pairing of Phaneuf - Suter going into next season? I don't know if they have time to wait for guys to develop. Their core are all about 30.
Just Rude
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This. I tended to defend Phaneuf earlier, although I never considered him "elite" by any stretch. I thought he was just under the microscope, so every flaw was magnified.
I was wrong. While he may be a "horse" on this team, the constant brain cramps and bad decisions are becoming evident.
He is not a $7 million player. Get him the hell out of here and give someone else the 'C'.
weems
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Minny's problem isnt on the defensive side tho.
They are ranked 9th overall in goals allowed. Scoring goals is the problem so I dont see how aquiring Phaneuf who has 7 years left at 7 million per is a good idea when you could very possibly get similar production from Brodin (who's shown tons of flashs that hes going to be REALLY REALLY good). You obviously have a much higher opinion on Phaneuf then me so I dont really think we would agree on a topic like this.
Them giving up Brodin for a elite offensive player I could see.
Trapper
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Half blow up, half retool.
Every year it's the same thing. Some kind of collapse happens. We've made the playoffs 1 time in 8 years. When we did make it, we collapsed on the way out. We are not even sure if this team can make it next year with this core. So 1 or 2 players from the core need to be changed.
We can't trade Clarkson or Gleason.
Doubtful we touch the 1st line.
That leaves Phaneuf and Lupul.
Let's bring up a lot of Marlies in the year of McDavid and see what happens. We can add them to what we have. If we suck so be it because that's the result most of the time.
Every year it's the same thing. Some kind of collapse happens. We've made the playoffs 1 time in 8 years. When we did make it, we collapsed on the way out. We are not even sure if this team can make it next year with this core. So 1 or 2 players from the core need to be changed.
We can't trade Clarkson or Gleason.
Doubtful we touch the 1st line.
That leaves Phaneuf and Lupul.
Let's bring up a lot of Marlies in the year of McDavid and see what happens. We can add them to what we have. If we suck so be it because that's the result most of the time.
I do tend to agree with you. That they'd likely want an elite forward in return. But that would leave their D fairly thin: Suter, Spurgeon, Scandella, and... ? Plus there are rumours that Vanek may be headed there. Phaneuf shores up their D while Vanek provides scoring.
That said, I don't know whether they'd be willing to sacrifice a good young player; whether they want an upgrade on D; or whether Nonis would be willing to trade Dion.
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