hotpaws
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The Pens gutted their team in the mid 80's to draft Mario , tanking is far from new .
Leafs Core Beyond the 2013-14 - EDIT Retool or Blow it up?
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The Pens gutted their team in the mid 80's to draft Mario , tanking is far from new .
johnny_rudeboy
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Well, seeing as we are one of the few teams in the league who have never tried it perhaps we should?
Do you think what ever it is we are doing right now is working? Do you see the current core challenge for the cup within their prime years?
socko
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They have a draft lottery now. Instituted in 1995. I think it was a direct result of the Nordiques tanking for Lindros in 1991. Took them 4 years to make the change. Tanking only gives you a 25% chance of getting the top pick. I guess if there are 2 megastars in the draft tanking would work but I can't recall that ever happening.
hotpaws
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It's funny but i never here posters like you ever explain where we're going to get these mystery star players if not through the draft . You and others keep saying how you don't need a top pick but then never follow through and explain a viable option to the obtain these players without giving value back .
socko
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I've seen a lot of episodes of the Twilight Zone, great old show from the 60s, but none of them were quite as strange as listing Clarkson as a core piece of a hockey team.
hotpaws
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Ovi/Malkin
McDavid/Eichel ?
Also most drafts have quality players at the top , maybe not mega stars but still good enough to be a core piece to a cup team and finishing 30th still guarantee's you a top 2 pick .
socko
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Because this team is so close to competing for a cup.
:23rd,10th*, 26th, 22nd, 29th, and 24th in the last 6 seasons. I really believe they would of missed in 2013 as well if it would of been a full 82 game season.
Shouldn't be that hard to tank, all they need is a little push.
Trapper
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You are travelling through another dimension.
Another dimension that says:
5.25 million for the next 7 years pretty much screams core. What do you call it?
ah yes the same old worn out horse sht eh?
"Tanking only holds value if you draft #1 and it has to be a generational player, because well ,ummm, well to boil it down to such a finite point of definition gives us anti tankers a leg to stand on, ummm well, because we ain't got much else.
I think we'll almost certainly have to get them through the draft, but I also think we can do that without necessarily selling off Kessel, JVR, etc. and icing a team of AHLers to try and secure the #1 overall pick for the next three seasons. It's not so black and white.
I mean, LA didn't have to 'tank' to get Doughty. They were just a bubble team that had a bad year. We already picked up a potential top-pairing d-man in Rielly a couple of years back, we've got the 8th overall this year, and who knows where we'll end up next summer, in what's projected to be one of the strongest drafts in a while.
That's actually kind of what I'm saying. I think if we let these expiring UFAs go, fill their spots with younger guys like Ashton, D'Amigo, Holland, etc., let the team sink or swim next year (more than likely sink, but who knows) and continue building from within, we can put together a solid core without necessarily selling off every valuable asset we have for picks and prospects.
johnny_rudeboy
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Both NBA and NFL teams tank, or go with a "youth movement" as they might prefer to call it. Nothing wrong with that. The system in North American pro sports is constructed so that the worst teams gets to pick the best players. So either you are comfortable with having a strong team that you can tweak a little every season and if they fail, retool around the core and be right back at it again the next season. Or you simply try and get as many picks as possible and rebuild your team so that you in the future can become that comfortable winning franchise who dont need to tan.. go with a youth movement.
I dont know about you but I am not comfortable with the current team at all. 2 epic end of season collapses under two different coaches and an equally epic end to the first playoff series in almost 10 years is not something that screams out a need of minor changes.
Trapper
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We are in the perfect position to do this. Look at out team. If we pick up high end skilled forwards in the next 3 drafts, our current picks who play defense, Rielly,Finn,Percy,Granberg,Nillson will be 23/24 while the elite forwards can grow with a young D core that already has a few years experience. It takes defense a few extra years over forwards kind of like how Keith and Seabrook are 4/5 years older than Kane and Toews.
johnny_rudeboy
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LA picked top 5 three straight years. They did not just have a bad year, the rebuilt. Allowed their younger guys to play a larger role, traded away some vets and beefed up their prospect pool.
We are a bottom 10 team with Kessel so why not trade him away so that he can use his peak years with a team that actually have a chance of winning and allow us to recapture as much as we possible can from what we gave up for him in terms of value. Sure, no one will give us a 2nd and 9th overall for him but at least a couple of good prospect and some high picks.
Kessel will be 27 when next season starts. Wingers who rely on their goal scoring usually start to decline somewhat the closer to the 30´s they get. The players you speak of we should draft this and next year will start to peak when Kessel is declining. The timing is all wrong.
hotpaws
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So basically we're back to building through the draft like we should have done from the beginning .
The reason some people are saying to sell off PK and especially DP now is if we're going to have to wait for the draft to build our team then we're 3 plus years away and by that time the chances of DP being a core piece is slim to none and who knows what type of player PK will be at 30 . Kessel might be at the same level but if drops to a 60ish type of player then it would be prudent to deal him now at his peak instead of waiting until he's an overpaid under performing player relative to his cap hit.
Burke put the cart before the horse and if we're not/can't retool quickly then we shouldn't waste time with this current core and sell off pieces while they still have value . This doesn't mean a complete gut job but it does mean taking a realistic view of the team and making the right moves to elevate us to cup contending status in the future .
johnny_rudeboy
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Exactly. If one look at peak ages for different positions wingers peak first, followed by centers, followed by defenders, followed by goalies. The further away from your own net you are, the quicker you peak.
And considering the Marlies and the system is pretty stacked with good defensive players with character who need some years of development until they are ready, if we went with a youth movement now to add elite talent chances are our long term projects would peak at the same time as the newly acquired highly skilled ones do.
The timing would be perfect.
Kessel's game won't decline that's 100% for sure.
He does not have any major injuries nor does he play a hard hitting style, those are the guys that decline in their thirties i.e Bertuzzi, Lindros etc.
He's going to be a selanne or alfreddsson, as he loses a bit of speed he still has his shot and playmaking ability which is off the charts.
Im worried about Dion declining, but I have no problem saying Kessel will be a consistent near PPG player until around the end of his contract.
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