Proposal: Leafs acquire a defenseman

[Hunter368]

Yeah what a novel idea right? Leafs obviously need defenseman.

So there is obviously prime aged, young, or prospect level to go for.

Right now we have assets available;

Roster players with value - JVR, Bozak, Soshnikov
Defense (minimal value) - Hunwick, Corrado, Polak

Prospects with value we can part with

Forward - Bracco, Kapanen, Johnson, Lindberg, Leipsic, Timashov, Grundstrom (would hurt)

Defense - Valiev

Goalie - N/A we really only have Andersen and Woll is so far out...

Picks - Pretty much every pick minus our 1st round pick is available.

Cap dumps - We may be able to take a bit of salary back to help facilitate a deal.

Anyone else feel free to bring up, I tried to bring up the notables who'd have value in other fan's eyes.

If you've read this far, you're probably thinking this is all well and good but blah blah, Leaf's scraps again. Not true, some good top 6 talent or projectable top 6 talent. Valiev is a pretty good defensive prospect as well.

So i'd like to throw out some names prospect wise or roster player wise from other teams the Leafs would have varying degrees of interest in and ask if any combination of the above assets would interest you enough to part with that piece? Does your team need more forward prospects or roster players and want to parlay some defense? Re-coup some picks?

Thanks in advance for your constructive contribution to the thread.

Tanev (VAN)
McCavoy (BOS)
Fabbro (NSH)
Carlo (BOS)
Juulsen (MTL)
McKeown (CAR)
Santini (NJD)
Pulock (NYI)
Myers (PHI)
Myers (WPG)
Bowey (WSH)
Honka (DAL)
Schmaltz (STL)
Vannelli (STL)
Trouba (WPG)
Montour (ANA)
Stone (ARI)
Andersson (CAL)
Moverare (LAK)

I did aim pretty high with this and imagine i'll have half the fan bases in the league making some sort of sarcastic comment but I figured it made more sense to base it all in here rather then make 20 threads.

Myers or Trouba from the Jets?

The entire list of players & prospects aren't needed or are just misc depth pieces of no interest.

Jets would have zero interest in any of those pieces as the main return for Myers or Trouba. Easy pass, nothing there even mildly interesting to the Jets as a return for Myers or Trouba. If the Leafs want either, they must offer something that's of high value & need to the Jets......nothing you listed fits the bill.

 

[garyturner3]

Take JVR off the list. Babcock and Lou love him. He is a legit top line LW, that is mentoring all the kids in Toronto. He is unavailable.

He most certainly is not unavailable. They may not be shopping him, but I have no doubt Lou would move him if the right offer came along.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Honestly I think it makes the most sense to keep all three and move a roster Dman at some point between now and expansion. That allows us to protect 3 of our 4 core roster D and maintain our young depth.

I mean more like how do you value the 3 of them, seems like it was 1. Theodore 2. Larsson 3. Montour a year ago

When you say move a roster Dman, is that Stoner/Bieksa? and the 4 core Dmen - Lindholm/Fowler/Vatanen/Manson?

 

[Stu]

He most certainly is not unavailable. They may not be shopping him, but I have no doubt Lou would move him if the right offer came along.

Theoretically yes but realistically no. JvR is having a good start to the season and putting up points but still does not command the value to acquire the quality of defenseman that the Leafs require to significantly upgrade the top-4.

Unless a team like Anaheim with their surplus decides to overpay for offense and we are able to acquire a high-quality defenseman then the Leafs are well positioned to stand pat this season. We still have numerous prospects to be evaluated, the 2017 draft and free agency to address this need, all of which will not necessitate removing an effective player from our team that is currently exceeding expectations.

 

[Halla]

Tanev isn't available for what you have listed. Gudbranson, on the other hand, could be had for something like Kapenen, Dermott/Nielsen, and a cap dump not named Lupul/Horton.

you want our best forward and defensive prospect for gudbransson?
haha, no

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I mean more like how do you value the 3 of them, seems like it was 1. Theodore 2. Larsson 3. Montour a year ago

When you say move a roster Dman, is that Stoner/Bieksa? and the 4 core Dmen - Lindholm/Fowler/Vatanen/Manson?

It's tough to rank the three prospects, I'd probably still stick with the above order based on their overall upside, but it's so close.

The core four are as you've listed them. Lindholm is obviously the keeper, Manson is extremely affordable and unique in what he brings to the team. There's a chance Fowler could be dealt due to contact status but I'd say Vatanen is the guy to move as his role can be immediately replaced by Theodore or Montour.

So we move Vatanen for a core forward, and that allows us to protect all of our vital pieces from expansion.

 

[Halla]

Yeah I don't want to sound like I'm trying to run Vats out of town but out of our pieces with significant value I think he makes the most sense to move, leaving Montour and Theodore to fight for the vacant role.

I don't think we have a great fit with the Leafs though, after the big 3 (who are obviously not moving) I don't see a young forward who lines up with the Ducks needs.

vatanan wouldnt be a fit here. I doubt a 5'10 offensive guy would be able to play effectively with Rielly or Gardiner, so doesnt help our top 4.

The leafs should just wait till vegas grabs a dozen dmen at the expansion draft then tries to move a few of them.

 

[Halla]

It's tough to rank the three prospects, I'd probably still stick with the above order based on their overall upside, but it's so close.

The core four are as you've listed them. Lindholm is obviously the keeper, Manson is extremely affordable and unique in what he brings to the team. There's a chance Fowler could be dealt due to contact status but I'd say Vatanen is the guy to move as his role can be immediately replaced by Theodore or Montour.

So we move Vatanen for a core forward, and that allows us to protect all of our vital pieces from expansion.

How many teams do you realistically think are looking to grab a dman they would need to protect, for young assets that don't need to be protected, prior to the exp. draft?

because I dont think Anaheim moves fowler/vatanen during the season.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

How many teams do you realistically think are looking to grab a dman they would need to protect, for young assets that don't need to be protected, prior to the exp. draft?

because I dont think Anaheim moves fowler/vatanen during the season.

We have room to take on a forward who needs protection, so we can just shoot for the best forward offered.

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Rakell, Silfverberg, Acquired forward, Cogliano (7)

Lindholm, Fowler, Manson (3)

Gibson (1)

All core pieces protected (Ritchie, Theodore, Montour, Larsson and other key prospects are exempt).

Left available would be Vermette and depth guys.

This is far and away the most beneficial route for Anaheim to go.

 

[Halla]

Brown/Kapanen for Moverare

I can't see the leafs sending a 20 year old ppg AHL player, or a young forward coming off a 4 pt game, for a guy they passed over 7 times last year at the draft.

not even close.

 

[67Cup]

Brown/Kapanen for Moverare

Maybe the Leafs should have drafted Moverare in the middle of the 2016 draft 4th round rather than Keaton Middleton. Hey, make that definitely, if you want. But why would they trade a rookie winger who is playing regularly in the NHL on the line which plays the toughest minutes on the team for him? Or a 20 year old scoring more than a ppg in the AHL, a number on highlight reel goals, the top prospect remaining in the pipeline and the centrepiece in a major trade? The price for a Dman is very high just now but that is more than a little steep.

If the Leafs want a prospect several years away from the NHL, they should draft one.

 

[Halla]

We have room to take on a forward who needs protection, so we can just shoot for the best forward offered.

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Rakell, Silfverberg, Acquired forward, Cogliano (7)

Lindholm, Fowler, Manson (3)

Gibson (1)

All core pieces protected (Ritchie, Theodore, Montour, Larsson and other key prospects are exempt).

Left available would be Vermette and depth guys.

this is the scenario if vatanen is traded and bieksa is bought out with no cap savings?

I was ok with a JVR for Fowler swap pre season, but ducks fans seemed to move on from that after fowler had a hot start and I doubt many leafs fans would do it now with JVR now in the top 10 of league scoring. also worth noting is the leafs arent gonna wanna expose connor carrick, if they bring in someone they wouldnt be able to protect him.

probably makes more sense to just see what happens with vegas after the draft (they are likely to have dmen to move) and just draft the best dman available this year. Nielsen and Dermott have both played very well as AHL rookies so all that might be needed is a bit of patience.

 

[Halla]

Maybe the Leafs should have drafted Moverare in the middle of the 2016 draft 4th round rather than Keaton Middleton. Hey, make that definitely, if you want. But why would they trade a rookie winger who is playing regularly in the NHL on the line which plays the toughest minutes on the team for him? Or a 20 year old scoring more than a ppg in the AHL, a number on highlight reel goals, the top prospect remaining in the pipeline and the centrepiece in a major trade? The price for a Dman is very high just now but that is more than a little steep.

If the Leafs want a prospect several years away from the NHL, they should draft one.

I wish we could trade a recent 4th rd pick for another teams top prospect ...

Middleton for Kempe?

 

[Randy Randerson]

It's tough to rank the three prospects, I'd probably still stick with the above order based on their overall upside, but it's so close.

The core four are as you've listed them. Lindholm is obviously the keeper, Manson is extremely affordable and unique in what he brings to the team. There's a chance Fowler could be dealt due to contact status but I'd say Vatanen is the guy to move as his role can be immediately replaced by Theodore or Montour.

So we move Vatanen for a core forward, and that allows us to protect all of our vital pieces from expansion.

Seems like Montour is getting more love than Larsson from outside of the fanbase: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2150859

But it's also easier to boxscore watch Montour

 

[Caesium]

Tryamkin would fit the Leafs well. I also like Pesce.

 

[Sheva7]

Hamonic+ for Kadri

 

[WhatTheDuck]

this is the scenario if vatanen is traded and bieksa is bought out with no cap savings?

I was ok with a JVR for Fowler swap pre season, but ducks fans seemed to move on from that after fowler had a hot start and I doubt many leafs fans would do it now with JVR now in the top 10 of league scoring. also worth noting is the leafs arent gonna wanna expose connor carrick, if they bring in someone they wouldnt be able to protect him.

probably makes more sense to just see what happens with vegas after the draft (they are likely to have dmen to move) and just draft the best dman available this year. Nielsen and Dermott have both played very well as AHL rookies so all that might be needed is a bit of patience.

Yes that is how it would lay out if we moved Vatanen for a forward.

I don't factor Bieksa in when it comes to expansion discussion, I just don't think there's any chance in hell they allow him to eat up a protection slot. If he doesn't waive his NMC, it's worth it to bite the bullet on a buyout in order to protect an important and affordable dman like Manson.

I really do think he'll waive though, it's basically a formality because Vegas would almost certainly pass on him. Bieksa only agreed to a trade because he got a NMC, he doesn't want to move his family. If Murray agrees to honor the NMC after expansion it's probably in Bieksa's best interest to waive.

Seems like Montour is getting more love than Larsson from outside of the fanbase: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2150859

But it's also easier to boxscore watch Montour

With Montour playing in San Diego for the past year putting up gaudy numbers, and Larsson spending most of that time overseas playing a much quieter, more sound style, it's easy for the former to get more fan attention.

It's a really tough comparison to make, Larsson is a fair bit younger and got a taste of the NHL at an age where Montour would have been still tearing up the USHL. They play very different styles with Larsson profiling as more of an efficient game manager and Montour flashing dynamic offensive ability.

Then you factor in Theodore who may be behind Montour offensively, and below Larsson defensively, yet with arguably the greatest overall upside as a guy who can munch big minutes and produce offense.

 

[Starat327]

I don't see Myers from PHI being available. Outside of Gudas, he is our our only natural RHD coming up, and the pieces you have listed dont measure up to what PHI is looking for.

 

[Mitchy]

Our top prospect is now a "spare part". Last year, the ignorant downplayed him because of his production, even though it was good for a 19 year old in the A. Now that he's ppg, they still haven't learned. lol, we'll keep our spare part who has top line potential.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Hamonic+ for Kadri

Hamonic + Cizikas for Kadri +?

Kadri has been tremendous this year for us. Extremely solid defensively, and is the offensive catalyst of his line.

But I'd be willing to move in a package for Ham and Cizikas.

 

[Liferleafer]

I don't think the Leafs will be trading for anybody's young top 4D...to expensive and to many teams with the same needs. I can see the team grabbing UFA vets or....and i can't believe i am saying this, a guy like Staal from the Rangers IF it is worth our while. (like retention or a nice add because of that contract)

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Seems like Montour is getting more love than Larsson from outside of the fanbase: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2150859

But it's also easier to boxscore watch Montour

Larsson doesnt get too much love in general, his style isnt super flashey... he plays outside north america so not easily accesible.

As far as value goes, i think larsson is least likely to move, then it depends on who we move if we move fowler or vatanen. Vatanen moved, i think theodore becomes available, fowler moves i think montour becomes available.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

Can't imagine the Bruins would be at all interested in trading Mac or Carlo. Depends on what for I guess but not for any of what was "available" in the OP

 

[BlueBaron]

Personally, it makes the most sense to draft a defenseman(Foote?) With our top 10 pick this June, and keep the remaining assets.

Thus roling with a top 4 of
Rielly-zaitsev
Gards-draft pick.

Which should all be in their prime in 2-3 seasons when the leafs are rolling.

And Dermott and Nielsen are projecting for top 4 as well.


Makes too much sense IMO...

I agree with this. Our surprising start has many Leaf fans forgetting the rebuild is not over. Another issue with getting a D (which it appears we cannot afford anyway) is that it means we stop developing the ones we have in our bottom part of the rotation.

I for one hope we draft a D this year and this summer I would not object to getting an older Defenseman who is perhaps overpaid but only has a couple years left on his deal, or signing an FA.

As much as everyone is fixated on young players we could probably use a Vet but I am not convinced we need him this year when the prices are so high, better to wait until before the expansion draft and try and get a bargain.

 

[BlueBaron]

He most certainly is not unavailable. They may not be shopping him, but I have no doubt Lou would move him if the right offer came along.

Yep.

http://www.thescore.com/news/937142

They were saying on Sportsnet yesterday that the offer would have to knock their socks off for them to consider it, so while he is technically available he is very much part of the plan going forward.

Our fans will continue to ignore this though because we have nothing to offer in trade proposals.