Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I thought he played well yesterday, and I say that as someone who isn't a fan of his game, at all. Maybe I wasn't watching closely enough though, but I had no issues with how he played.
LD Shakir Mukhamadullin (2020, 20th, NJD; traded to SJS)
- Thread starter FrankGallagher
- Start date
Players picked in the 20s are not projected to be top pairing or top line players. They may develop into them, but that's not the expectation at the draft.
That's a weird bar you have made for yourself.
That's not a weird bar, that is you mixing up "players" and defencemen. For forwards what you say is true. Defencemen go later in the draft on the average.
Going later doesn't make your statement anymore true.
Do you believe that Schneider, Barron or even Guhle are "top pairing guys with little to no doubt about it"?
No, that's what you ask the guy who foolishly insists that's the bar for grading them.
You keep naming Provorov as the ideal first round defensemen. Provorov went 7th overall. There's a substantial difference between 7th and 20th overall.
You seem unable to distinguish between a players potential at the time of draft and what the player ultimately is able to achieve. Go to any given draft year and take a look at the defensemen drafted in the first round. Over half of them never even make the NHL, let alone come close to being a top pairing defender.
If you're drafting in the top 3-5, maybe deeper in select years, sure.. you're hoping for a top pair defender. If you're selecting later in the first round, you're certainly expecting a mid-pair defender (and a 2nd/3rd line forward). The talent isn't nearly as deep as you seem to think it is. Saying first round defensemen are "mostly future top pairing" is as absurd a claim as I've seen on these boards... there are a dozen plus defenders selected in the first round on average, they're all expected by their teams to be top pair defenders..?
You can like or not like a prospect, that's your opinion and all.. but you seem to have ridiculously high expectations that don't align with reality.
SoundAndFury
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That's not even close to being true. Ryan Murray, for example, went #2 overall despite being projected more as a 2nd pairing D right there on the draft floor.
NHL would be full to the brim of top-pairing Ds if every 1st rounder would be expected to become one. And yet, those are some of the most scarce commodities.
Oh boy.... and Yak went 1OA. Single cases and busts won't help us here. At draft day Ryan Murray was considered that kind of talent(sure thing not a 2nd pairing kind of guy). He did not pan out. Just like Yak, just like tons of others over the decades. It does not mean the expectations for those kind of picks aren't high. Every draft there are players who do not meet the expectations. But picks ARE made on expectations.
1.I don't keep naming Provorov as the ideal 1st round defenceman. I name Provorov as an example of a prospect who is at draft day considered to be a top pairing guy or even 1D. That's a difference.
2.There is a substantial difference between a top10 pick and a bottom10 pick in the 1st. That is why Provorov went 7th and John Carlson 27th. Both are 1D now though.
3.It is actually you who is unable to distinguish the difference between expectations at draft day and how they pan out. This is exactly what I am talking about. Expectations at draft day are what the picks are based on. Expectations aren't always met. Every draft there are busts. Does not mean a player who went 2nd overall wasn't expected to be a top pairing defenceman. Does not mean a guy who went closer to the end of round1 wasn't expected to be that.
4.You vastly exaggerate saying over half of first rounder defencemen were busts as in do not make the NHL. Just go through the drafts. And of course there are always odd years for every side. Some draft has exceptionally high amounts of busts, some draft on the other hand will have more great picks than the average. Again, it is all hindsight. The expectations on draft day were that those guys will be stars. This is how drafts work.
5.You exaggerate again claiming that only a top5(for defencemen no less) pick is expected to be a top pairing guy. There aren't even that many top5 defencemen picks. A D-man who goes top5 is a projected superstar. Again, the expected amount is always bigger than the ones who work out. It can't even be otherwise.
6.A dozen+ defencemen per 1st round is also weird wrong. Do you really think that? Just check it. It's closer to 8-9. In fact in recent years there was I think ONE odd draft with a dozen+ defencemen selected. Means you are wrong by a third with your assumption. And given the rate at which prospects fail, that means there are of course no 8-9 future top pairing guys in the draft.
7.I don't have high expectations. I evealuate the palyer based on what I see and compare that to where he was drafted in this case. In my book Mukhamadullin was drafted maybe a bit high, but that's okay if a team wants a particular player. And I understand why they went high risk, high reward on him. There is still risk involved. Was he the best defenceman still on the board at draft day? Maybe. But for all we know some guy picked after him might as well end up being a better player throughout a pro career.
Have you seen the NJ defense? He might be on the top pair on the left side this season once Murray gets hurt if given the chance.
Thats' the Podkolzin is NHL ready all over again. Even on the worst D-squad, he is obviously not NHL ready at this point, but only very, very few are at 18, so that's not critique at all.
Im just making fun of the NJ defense. I have read enough of your posts to see your criticism of Mukhamadullin. I agree with some of it in principle although I think you see his flaws as more pervasive than others do.
I liken Mukhamadullin to a QB that tries to go through all of his reads before throwing the ball. He’s always trying to get the ball down the field when typically the short route is the correct throw. When it works you get the stretch passes or the hit to break up a play. When it doesn’t he looks like he doesn’t know what’s going on and you get failed passes and turnovers.
It’s fixable with good coaching and experience. A good QB knows where he’s going with the ball before the snap and Mukhamadullin will have to learn that skill.
Filling out and gaining strength will take care of much of the awkward defending where he lacks leverage and looks like he’s leaning on guys rather than hitting them.
I tend to agree with those that see him as showing the skill of a later first round pick but it’s all just an opinion so nobody can be objectively wrong.
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The Crypto Guy
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SteveCangialosi123
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He at least managed to play an entire game without getting tossed unlike that dullard Schneider.
He would have been better for Russia last night if he did get tossed.
The Crypto Guy
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I'll take that one shift over the game Mukhamadullin just played. [MOD]
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Sens of Anarchy
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There is the good Mukhamadullin and the bad Mukhamadullin last night we saw some of the bad.. but he's been solid for the most part IMO. I don't like everyone the Sens pick .. and if I was a NJD fan I would question this one; but he could turn out
Tripod
I hate this team
The big issue with the 1st clip, is that after getting beat, he tries to come back hard....then coasts. And that coast cost them the goal. If he had just kept skating and switched off to the eventual goal scorer, he intercepts that pass and this no goal.
That said, I think he has looked very good at times as well. Such is life for these kids especially young D. They all will have ups and downs. He has 2-4 years to keep getting better before he is in the NHL.
Wierzbowski426
Registered User
Lol, typical rangers fan. That guy is a clown who seems to have some sort of agenda against Mak if you follow his twitter feed at all.
His play has certainly had its ups and downs but I am not sure why so many people seem to hate on this kid. He has a ton of time to improve and adjust his game.
You pick 3 bad highlights and determine he is overwhelmed?
He had a rough game, but there are some things to consider with the highlights you picked. In the first, no russian forward backchecks and the second defender comes to the same side leaving open the pass. Why are people pinning this on him solely? All of Russia messed that up. The second is just a bad shot, o no. The third looks to me like he is leaving the puck for the circling russian and realizes to late that he has looked away.
This post plus your weird flex on Schneider headhunting are a bit much bud.
Pretty much, yes on both counts. He had to switch and didn't do it in time. And Mukhamadullin is still relatively new to playing D so it is to be expected that he will take some time to add those elements, some of which are easy to learn in time. Very intriguing prospect.
Actually it's the backchecking forward Chinakhov who plays it correctly. Mukhamadullin is already beat by Rychlovsky, so Chinakhov has to take him on that side. Then Mukhamadullin has a window to cut off the goal scorer but he is slow to read that he is there, perhaps the trailing D Chistyakov didn't communicate properly, I don't know. And in fairness it is somewhat remarkable that Rychlovsky found Koffer. I don't think it is the most egregious play but it is also mostly Mukhamadullin's misplay, not anyone else's.
Shakir has been a meme prospect long before the Devils drafted him. The Dobber guys in particular, including Dylan, have been picking at him for a solid year now. It's not a Rangers-Devils thing. The kid has plenty of time, I agree on that.
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