LD Olli Juolevi - TPS, Liiga (2016, 5th, VAN)

[AlternateSideParking]

Juolevi may turn out to be a better player than Chychrun. Anything is possible.

But you're on some serious sherm if you think he's had a better season than Chychrun.

I'm talking circa-1991 Limelight, Frankie Bones sherm.

 

[BB88]

Remember this:

May I ask how what do you mean by this?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Top line center? What about Nylander and Marner?

As someone else covered the topic really well...

I figure Marner is likely a winger.

Nylander is a good one, I would rather not put all my eggs in the basket of him being a 1C though, plus Matthews-Nylander 1-2 punch down the middle is really appealing.

Other then that though, top pairing guy to play with Rielly long term is a huge need for us.

This draft has some really intriguing blueliners

 

[AlternateSideParking]

May I ask how what do you mean by this?

Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.

While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.

Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:

NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."

or

Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."

****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.

Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.

While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.

Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:

NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."

or

Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."

****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.

Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.

Or perhaps there are some teams who have Juolevi rated ahead of Chychrun. I'd be fairly surprised if all 30 teams regarded Chyrchrun as the best dman in the draft.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Meanwhile, in the NHL...

 

[BB88]

Every year, media types who don't watch/scout the players like to stir the pot and add intrigue to the draft.

While I deeply respect Mr. McKenzie, he doesn't scout amateur players and fully admits he respects the opinions of others. But tweeting the Juolevi thing without any follow up or substance is typical stir-the-pot propaganda.

Did he ask them about Juolevi as the 4th pick? Did they go to him and tell him that's how they felt? All he said there was a discussion about it. The "discussion" could have been:

NHL GM: "Hey Bob, some weirdo online has us picking Juolevi 4th overall ahead of Tkachuk. My scouts think that's bananas."

or

Scout: "Hi Bob. You know, we talked about this Juolevi kid possibly being 4th overall, but no way that ever happens. I want to keep my job."

****....I can "discuss" Andrew Peeke being the best defenseman in the 2016 draft with all our contacts/scouts/SID's. Doesn't mean it's even close to being a possibility, let alone warrant a public conversation.

Not denying Mr. McKenzie's ridiculous contact list and I'm sure there were discussions. But it's not news because frankly, all scouts and GM's do is "discuss" possibilities.

I listen to what Bob says, respect the hell out of it and take his word over the guys you are linking here, he also doesn't just ask by 1 person and if you look at lists it feels like they are 50/50 on Juolevi vs Chychrun these days.

I personnally don't care which one goes 1st, I just don't get the comment that poster made.
To me Juolevis development is much more important than seeing him go 4th, I just hope he goes to a team with good management and of course No to Montreal

edit, Bob also tweeted other draft tweets at the same time, not just the Juolevi tweet.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Or perhaps there are some teams who have Juolevi rated ahead of Chychrun. I'd be fairly surprised if all 30 teams regarded Chyrchrun as the best dman in the draft.

It's not all 30 teams that matter. It's the first 8-12 who are drafting. Those teams want stars to justify the horrid season. The better teams would be just fine with a role player or an occasional contributor.

It was an open-ended tweet without much substance or a follow-up, which sadly is par for the course when its draft related and comes from the mainstream media.

You know what would have been a story:

"Talked to six lottery-team GMs, and four are leaning towards Juolevi as the best dman in the draft"

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Meanwhile, in the NHL...

I don't understand what your point is. All you can say is that Carolina ranked Hanifin ahead of Provorov.

It's not all 30 teams that matter. It's the first 8-12 who are drafting. Those teams want stars to justify the horrid season. The better teams would be just fine with a role player or an occasional contributor.

It was an open-ended tweet without much substance or a follow-up, which sadly is par for the course when its draft related and comes from the mainstream media.

You know what would have been a story:

"Talked to six lottery-team GMs, and four are leaning towards Juolevi as the best dman in the draft"

Why is Juolevi a "role player" or an "occasional contributor"? Because you say so? Chychrun is no guarantee to be a star, nor is he a guarantee to be a better player than Juolevi (or Sergachev for that matter). It's really not difficult to believe there would be a variety of opinions on who the best dman in the draft is.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I listen to what Bob says, respect the hell out of it and take his word over the guys you are linking here, he also doesn't just ask by 1 person and if you look at lists it feels like they are 50/50 on Juolevi vs Chychrun these days.

I personnally don't care which one goes 1st, I just don't get the comment that poster made.
To me Juolevis development is much more important than seeing him go 4th, I just hope he goes to a team with good management and of course No to Montreal

edit, Bob also tweeted other draft tweets at the same time, not just the Juolevi tweet.

My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.

If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.

In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I don't understand what your point is. All you can say is that Carolina ranked Hanifin ahead of Provorov.

Why is Juolevi a "role player" or an "occasional contributor"? Because you say so? Chychrun is no guarantee to be a star, nor is he a guarantee to be a better player than Juolevi (or Sergachev for that matter). It's really not difficult to believe there would be a variety of opinions on who the best dman in the draft is.

Don't disagree at all. But I think you missed my point.

I wasn't calling Juolevi a role player. I said it means more when lottery-team scouts and GMs favor one kid over another because they have way more at stake.

I personally don't care what Stan Bowman or Steve Yzerman think about the top prospects because they have very little at stake. At the end of the day, they're still a powerhouse.

Therefore, I take McKenzie's tweet (or the ones I posted) with heaping of salt because it literally could mean a zillion things.

The fans deserve more than "Scouts might, maybe, could like this kid better..OK bye".

 

[BB88]

My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.

If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.

In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.

If Juolevi turns into Pietrangelo I'd go crazy, that would be fantastic.

Juolevi's passing/IQ are elite, and the way he can escape the D-zone is very wanted in this days NHL same as high IQ, and could see him be a great fit in Toronto and what they are building or in Buffalo with RR.

One could make a case for Juolevi being the best D-player in Helsinki and one of the best players in Helsinki at 17y, you can say the forward group was fantastic which is was but at the same time the defense was an absolute nightmare, so painfull to watch outside of Juolevi so his support group was very weak and he played 30min games and in every situation with limited talent around him on the blueline, he was a key reason for us Finns winning the gold.

He's a rookie in the OHL, his 1st year in smaller rink, and he is the weakest of the big 3 D-prospects so that should just lead to expect him having ton of room to impore/develop.

 

[Loffer]

Remember as well this whining by Pierre McGuire:

 

[1972]

Almost certain Buffalo would be selecting him if available outside the top 4.

 

[traffic cone]

My only criticism of Juolevi is I just don't see star potential. I see a very solid top-pairing guy in the mold of Anton Stralman or Alex Pietrangelo. He does so many things well and does a few at an elite level, but there's something missing. I understood the Provorov/Hanifin duel waaaaay more than Juolevi/Chychrun. I just don't see it as a close race.

If scouts believe Chychrun is more of a risk, they better be right, because not only are you passing on the guy everybody felt was a star in the making, but also passing up on the forwards with star potential.

In our discussions about Juolevi, he's simply the safer pick. Don't know if the team picking 4th OA wants that.

I think you're confusing 'potential' with 'flashiness'.

See: Nick Lidstrom.

 

[199991]

Remember as well this whining by Pierre McGuire:

I remember having the same reaction as Pierre McGuire at the time. But things happen in a draft and I'm pretty sure Tallon doesn't regret his choice right now.
So even if Chychrun seems to be the clear consensus #1 D in the draft, one team might very well have Juolevi ahead of him and he could certainly develop better or as good as Chychrun in a couple of years.

 

[Rielly4]

Personally I have Juolevi ranked as the top D in this draft...Just think hes a much smarter dman and has a higher IQ.

And hes actually taller than Chychrun...Obviously not as physical but i just think he will help your team more in the NHL and will have a better time adjusting to the fast pace of the NHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This is not meant to be hyperbolic, but If I were picking 4th overall right now. I would pick Juolevi. I love his smarts, poise, and his willingness to sacrifice the body to make a play. He is a very cerebral player that just oozes quality.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.

That's an interesting discussion point. All I would expect from an elite D man today is that they can play tough mins, in all situations, and is good all zones. A 45 - 50 point player a year, and I would be very happy.

Doughty and Keith had 46 and 45 points last year. This year they 44 and 42 points a piece.

I think offence is important for accessing a prospective D man's ceiling. But it is certainly only one layer of criteria.

Juolevi has a class to his game in the vein that Keith and Doughty have. I am not saying he is going to be as good as the 2 best D men in the game today. But he has that look as a D man that if you simply measure him in points. You probably will not appreciate him.

I don't think he got a point tonight, but I was very impressed. Passed the eye test easily.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.

I agree on this front. Juolevi is a smart dman no doubt, but Sergachev and Chychrun are both good defensively and might have more to offer on the attacking side of the puck. I personally rate Juolevi lower than both, around #8 on my list right now.

 

[BB88]

I'm not 100% sure if the offensive ability is elite or high end enough to run the offense from the backend at the next level, but his skating is very smooth and very good, positioning is very good, passing is excellent. Only concerns are whether he's going to be a high offensive producer and his less than great physical play/body checking, but doesn't make many mistakes. I still think Chychrun may have a slightly higher ceiling, but Juoelvi has closed the gap considerably.

If Juolevis transition game can be elite in the NHL that would do the trick, transition that will help the team win games but necessary doesn't get Juolevi on score sheet.

Watching the Bruins this year I've learned to appreciate that skill so much, and atleast in Helsinki Juolevi had that ability, turn the play around in a second.
Game is much more than just points, especially for a D-player, would be great if he could remind Josi in the NHL.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

In my opinion Juolevi's biggest assets are his smarts and vision. In the WJC he really shined on the PP and made quick and smart plays which should work in the NHL as well. He seems to lack strength and explosiveness, but that's something that's easy to work on.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

Well if the Canucks stick around their position I know they are getting this kid. I hope we get one of Juolevi or Chychurun

 

[kihei]

This draft has some really intriguing blueliners

What's your take on the Juolevi/Chychrun debate?