LD Juuso Valimaki (2017, 16th, CAL)

[Ippenator]

It's only terrible asset management if you are certain Kulak is more than a #6 and you're worried about resigning Valimaki post ELC.

If you can show me proof of either event occurring then your argument has merit. Otherwise you're just putting too much stock into the potential value of a tweener AHL defenseman.



This!

Yep, this is simply how it is. It is plain horrible management in general if you play a worse player over the better player. Whatever their contract or age is, you just don't do it. If they are clearly very even as players, then I can see the point. But if there is a difference between the quality of the players, you just simply ALWAYS play the better player.

Honestly though I can't compare Kulak and Välimäki, as I have not really seen Kulak play much. Välimäki has impressed me pretty much, but I have seen him play so far only against players of his own age, so it is pretty difficult to say how well he could do against adult men already. He does seem quite developed physically though, and even quite mature mentally for his age, so who knows, maybe he could even be pretty good in the NHL? But the key is still also of course what is Kulak's quality in the NHL? Seems that at least people here have pretty differing opinions about him.

 

[DJJones]

But the key is still also of course what is Kulak's quality in the NHL? Seems that at least people here have pretty differing opinions about him.

Seems like the more people watch Kulak the more people like him. Him and Jankowski were by far the best players on the Heat last year.

And there's so many examples of lesser players playing due to contract reasons. Probably been five situations like that in the last 3 years on Calgary alone haha.

 

[Flameshomer]

Seems like the more people watch Kulak the more people like him. Him and Jankowski were by far the best players on the Heat last year.

And there's so many examples of lesser players playing due to contract reasons. Probably been five situations like that in the last 3 years on Calgary alone haha.

And every single time this happens our board erupts in anguish. I can't think of a time where I've liked the decision, so why should we be hoping it happens again?

Also the more I see of Kulak the more I question what others see in him. He was fine in the A, but so are a lot of guys.

 

[madmike77]

It's a #6 job. Whoever wins the spot will only get about 12 minutes a game.

Kulak
Andersson
Kylington
Healy
Bartowski
Wotherspoon

All of them make a lot more sense in terms of contracts than Valimaki. Kulak looked fantastic on the Heat last year. I think he'll outplay Valimaki straight up.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

This is my concern. No matter how well he plays, the top 4 in Calgary is set and Valamaki won't crack it. So the question is whether he's better off playing 12 minutes a night in the NHL, or getting steady minutes in a top-4 role in the AHL.

The guy does look great though.

 

[L13]

Valimaki is not better than Kulak right now, so this discussion is moot. The poster who said Kulak has been "mediocre to poor" in the NHL so far is very wrong about that.

 

[Volica]

Juuso is going to get a bunch of years to develop.
His contract can slide twice; and anyone who thinks Tre won't take full advantage of that is kidding themselves. He'll playing in the WHL this year, and the AHL next year; his contract slides even with a professional year under his belt. It gives Calgary 2 extra years of control on his contract and on a cheap ELC.

Juuso won't be an NHL regular until 2019-2020; but this kid is a stud. That ceiling is a #1 all purpose.

 

[Flameshomer]

So the question is whether he's better off playing 12 minutes a night in the NHL, or getting steady minutes in a top-4 role in the AHL.

Except that he can't play in the AHL, and has already dominated in the WHL. I don't see any point in sending him back to learn bad defensive tendencies in the dub.

Valimaki is not better than Kulak right now, so this discussion is moot. The poster who said Kulak has been "mediocre to poor" in the NHL so far is very wrong about that.

Your opinion is worth just as much as mine unless you can prove it. Go ahead and try. Poor by the eye test, poor by the stat test. Not sure why he has so many defenders. The guy got surpassed by Bartkowski.

Juuso is going to get a bunch of years to develop.
His contract can slide twice; and anyone who thinks Tre won't take full advantage of that is kidding themselves. He'll playing in the WHL this year, and the AHL next year; his contract slides even with a professional year under his belt. It gives Calgary 2 extra years of control on his contract and on a cheap ELC.

Juuso won't be an NHL regular until 2019-2020; but this kid is a stud. That ceiling is a #1 all purpose.

WHY would we want that though? Defensive players need discipline to develop, not free wheeling junior hockey. sure his confidence might go up because he'd be one of the best on the ice. IMO the dub is a bad place to sit a finish-ed prospect.

 

[Figgy44]

Juuso is going to get a bunch of years to develop.
His contract can slide twice; and anyone who thinks Tre won't take full advantage of that is kidding themselves. He'll playing in the WHL this year, and the AHL next year; his contract slides even with a professional year under his belt. It gives Calgary 2 extra years of control on his contract and on a cheap ELC.

Juuso won't be an NHL regular until 2019-2020; but this kid is a stud. That ceiling is a #1 all purpose.

Agree. Having a player like Valimaki on his ELC emulating a Gio who has fallen from the 1st pairing IMO is a great way to deal with Gio's diminishing years. I wouldn't want to throw that option away since our scouts say Valimaki plays a style with similarities to Gio and having no inexpensive talent to play out Gio's contract would really hurt.


Playing the best player and ignoring contracts isn't always a great idea. You have to factor in the cost of turfing the player with a higher contract with playing said player. Sometimes it works out that you shake loose a player you can get decent assets in a trade. But buyouts or losing asset value etc. isn't smart.

For instance, playing Valimaki this season loses contract value. His ELC sliding is worth value. It also means it's a loss in value (though little, it's still a loss in value) or TSpoon or Kulak. Furthermore you risk rushing the player like a Lazar situation.

Furthermore, the comment about dominating the WHL doesn't even make sense. Valimaki was ranked 68th overall in points. He was the 7th highest in dmen for points. He definitely could continue to learn and develop in the WHL but he definitely did not dominate that league as you imply. He can be given a clear mandate to develop his defensive game in the WHL and he can work on it there. Throwing him at the NHL because you're all excited about him does not seem like a good idea at all. Cup of coffee? Sure. But not NHL regular.

 

[madmike77]

Except that he can't play in the AHL, and has already dominated in the WHL. I don't see any point in sending him back to learn bad defensive tendencies in the dub.



Your opinion is worth just as much as mine unless you can prove it. Go ahead and try. Poor by the eye test, poor by the stat test. Not sure why he has so many defenders. The guy got surpassed by Bartkowski.



WHY would we want that though? Defensive players need discipline to develop, not free wheeling junior hockey. sure his confidence might go up because he'd be one of the best on the ice. IMO the dub is a bad place to sit a finish-ed prospect.

I forgot about the stupid AHL rule. I'd likely just let him play in Europe then. I can't see the CHL doing anything for his development.

 

[Figgy44]

I forgot about the stupid AHL rule. I'd likely just let him play in Europe then. I can't see the CHL doing anything for his development.

That rule is a part of the reason why I don't mind a 19 age draft. Being drafted and unable to go to a higher league is silly.

 

[Flameshomer]

Are we all impressed with the development of Olli Juloevi in arguably a better league last year? I know I'm not. Valimaki needs strong development if he's going to slot in as our gio replacement, and there's nothing at all indicating the dub is the place to do that.

Valimaki dominated for a draft eligible player in the dub. If you limit it to draft eligible he was the highest scoring defenseman in the league.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Are we all impressed with the development of Olli Juloevi in arguably a better league last year? I know I'm not. Valimaki needs strong development if he's going to slot in as our gio replacement, and there's nothing at all indicating the dub is the place to do that.

Valimaki dominated for a draft eligible player in the dub. If you limit it to draft eligible he was the highest scoring defenseman in the league.

There is nothing indicating that returning Valimaki to the WHL would hinder his development in any way whatsoever.

It didn't hurt Provorov to return to the WHL after putting up an identical 61 points in 60 games during his draft year.

 

[Figgy44]

Are we all impressed with the development of Olli Juloevi in arguably a better league last year? I know I'm not. Valimaki needs strong development if he's going to slot in as our gio replacement, and there's nothing at all indicating the dub is the place to do that.

Valimaki dominated for a draft eligible player in the dub. If you limit it to draft eligible he was the highest scoring defenseman in the league.

If you have to disregard that many players to say Valimaki dominated, then perhaps Valimaki didn't dominate? I personally think it's a huge reason why he was taken in the first round, sure. But not evidence he dominated.

If you have to make that stretch to say he dominated, but raw shows he didn't dominate all players in that league including over agers in the same league, then what does he do against even older players at the NHL level?

There is nothing indicating that returning Valimaki to the WHL would hinder his development in any way whatsoever.

It didn't hurt Provorov to return to the WHL after putting up an identical 61 points in 60 games during his draft year.

Agreed. User name checks out, but come on.

 

[Redline]

Back to the WHL is definitely the place for Valimaki. He can still learn at the junior level and be better prepared for his pro hockey future.

 

[Volica]

Back to the WHL is definitely the place for Valimaki. He can still learn at the junior level and be better prepared for his pro hockey future.

People who are saying he has nothing to learn from the WHL haven't really watched him or his team.
It's worth mentioning Tri-City had Parker Wotherspoon, Juuso will be the big dog for Tri-City this year, as likely Parker will be moving to the AHL.

Juuso will be leaned on heavily as the 1D for Tri-City, they should be a good team this year and should make some noise in the Dub. He then also has a clean transition to the WJC where he'll anchor team Finland. It's better for him if he can dominate both the WHL and then move for a strong showing at the WJC; that'll be a lot more important for him than playing irregular games for 13 minutes a night in the NHL.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

People who are saying he has nothing to learn from the WHL haven't really watched him or his team.
It's worth mentioning Tri-City had Parker Wotherspoon, Juuso will be the big dog for Tri-City this year, as likely Parker will be moving to the AHL.

Juuso will be leaned on heavily as the 1D for Tri-City, they should be a good team this year and should make some noise in the Dub. He then also has a clean transition to the WJC where he'll anchor team Finland. It's better for him if he can dominate both the WHL and then move for a strong showing at the WJC; that'll be a lot more important for him than playing irregular games for 13 minutes a night in the NHL.

Valimaki faced the toughest competition on his team last season, that's why the Americans +/- was so drastic, as the players were used in drastic different situations.

 

[DieTomi]

If his skating was better I could see him as a #2 defenseman but from what I've seen he gets caught a lot with his pinches and doesn't have the skating ability to recover sometimes. He'll be a solid second pairing guy for a long time. Good offensive instincts and poise with the puck on his stick.

 

[Calgareee]

If his skating was better I could see him as a #2 defenseman but from what I've seen he gets caught a lot with his pinches and doesn't have the skating ability to recover sometimes. He'll be a solid second pairing guy for a long time. Good offensive instincts and poise with the puck on his stick.

Skating can be taught and refined. Lots of guys become better skaters. His best qualities can't be taught. I have no doubt that he'll play in doubt and would say that top pairing is in no way out of the question.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If his skating was better I could see him as a #2 defenseman but from what I've seen he gets caught a lot with his pinches and doesn't have the skating ability to recover sometimes. He'll be a solid second pairing guy for a long time. Good offensive instincts and poise with the puck on his stick.

Strange. Our head scout Tod Button was very high on his skating. IIRC even compared him to TJ Brodie.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Strange. Our head scout Tod Button was very high on his skating. IIRC even compared him to TJ Brodie.

He's fast once he gets going but his feet aren't the quickest.

 

[DieTomi]

He's fast once he gets going but his feet aren't the quickest.

Yeah his straight line speed is good just doesn't look the smoothest out there when pivoting. He's really smart though. If his skating improves, which it should, he's gonna be a great player. From what I've seen his game is very similar to Cam Fowler's, maybe even a little like TJ Brodie with a better shot.

 

[93LEAFS]

Skating can be taught and refined. Lots of guys become better skaters. His best qualities can't be taught. I have no doubt that he'll play in doubt and would say that top pairing is in no way out of the question.

You can improve explosiveness, but it is very hard to improve footwork and 4-way mobility.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He's a great skater. It's his best attribute.

 

[CraigsList]

WHL is the best place for him. One more year of development there wouldn't hurt, he'd have A LOT of ice time.

 

[Whileee]

If his skating was better I could see him as a #2 defenseman but from what I've seen he gets caught a lot with his pinches and doesn't have the skating ability to recover sometimes. He'll be a solid second pairing guy for a long time. Good offensive instincts and poise with the puck on his stick.

He's fast once he gets going but his feet aren't the quickest.

The Hockeyprospect.com scouts thought he lacked something in skating...

Some comments:

"His footwork when tracking forwards skating backwards can be sloppy and slow"
"his feet are not always active and ready to react to a forward coming down on him"
"Although he struggles in short distances and in quick transitions, Valimaki still can generate some decent speed in stride".

The few times I've watched him, he seems to have good straight-ahead speed, but somewhat "heavy feet" that keep him from being considered an top-end skater. I think he'll likely be able to improve that, and adapt his game to deal with quicker forwards.