LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[Svedu]

No I’m not. Some people just hate to hear the truth.

Okay so others comments and opinions are only subjective opinions and your is the objective and complete truth? Not narcissistic at all.

 

[ijuka]

No I’m not. Some people just hate to hear the truth.

Dunno, man. He seems to most commonly be ranked #3 or #4 overall currently, even after the last season which wasn't amazing, and you're acting like it's ridiculous to say he'd be the next Adam Fox, who currently seems to be the most appropriate player comparison for him in NHL.

What makes what you say "the truth", anyway?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The reason I don’t like the Fox comparison is because Fox has the best hockey sense in the NHL. That might be a strength of Kiviharju, but with Fox it’s going to carry him to the Hall of Fame. It’s not like Fox is some player with terrific all-around traits. He has one trait that is so overwhelming and the effects of how that one trait helps the rest of his traits play better than their raw element. If Kiviharju ends up merely a very good hockey sense player without it rising close to the level of Fox, you aren’t getting a player anywhere near the level of Fox. He may instead be a Torey Krug type.

And that’s not a bad outcome, but I think comparing him to Fox is too lofty. I think if Kiviharju’s production was so elite and there was no way to reasonably knock it, maybe you could suggest he’s on that trajectory, but we also see that he’s not like a lock season to season to dominate against the competition he faces. He could go either way, despite being a very good prospect, so I think comparing him to Fox is too lofty right now.

 

[ijuka]

The reason I don’t like the Fox comparison is because Fox has the best hockey sense in the NHL.

That's exactly the reason why Fox seems to be the most appropriate comparable, though.

Keep in mind they're 17-year-olds. They're not supposed to be on the same level as 25-year-old NHL veterans.

If, on the other hand, the expectation was that he was going to be on the level of a Torey Krug, I don't think he'd be ranked 3rd or 4th overall. That's more of a late first rounder.

 

[Albatros]

And Fox went #66 despite being a record-scoring RD.

 

[ijuka]

And Fox went #66 despite being a record-scoring RD.

Didn't that have something to do with him going to Harvard and indicating he wasn't very interested in signing before finishing his studies? I recall something to that effect.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That's exactly the reason why Fox seems to be the most appropriate comparable, though.

Keep in mind they're 17-year-olds. They're not supposed to be on the same level as 25-year-old NHL veterans.

If, on the other hand, the expectation was that he was going to be on the level of a Torey Krug, I don't think he'd be ranked 3rd or 4th overall. That's more of a late first rounder.

But are we trying to be accurate or give the exciting stylistic comparison? If we’re trying to be accurate, wouldn’t Kiviharju be the obvious 1OA if he was actually comparable in how he projects in the NHL to current Fox?

 

[Albatros]

Didn't that have something to do with him going to Harvard and indicating he wasn't very interested in signing before finishing his studies? I recall something to that effect.

Such considerations may or may not have affected his final position, but even the Central Scouting only had him ranked 50th among North American skaters. So I don't think it could be said that he fell, even if some did try to sell him as a potential late first as that was far from consensus anyway.

 

[Svedu]

I hope the best for Kiviharju but to my eyes he looked out of place at the WJC's as well. I understand the opinion will not be the most popular here, but he really did lack in overall physique and in his ability to skate.

At the end of the day, I prefer him to lean on his IQ and skill further down the road as well but I would love to see him develop both skating and his shot.

Also, let's take it easy with the speculations. I mean Heinola was brutal together with Niemelä at the WJC's back in the day. I mean like on the same level as the best Canadians and almost like a talent like Jiricek. But still, look how that went. Hasn't even managed to take a full spot on their roster yet.
Yeah I know, the Jets organization has been completely useless with their lack of giving him some room and time and giving him the confidence to play to his strengths.
So I guess my point is? That let's not forget that some players can become really good in the RIGHT franchise and that every players path is not certain or linear.
I mean Hintz in Dallas? He was always a good talent but who knew that he would become that good? Aho?
Let's not forget Maccelli either and the fact that "BigDog16" doesn't know jack s*it more than anyone else in here. That simple.

Nothing will decide Kiviharjus future now. The only thing that can completely ruin talents are when they get injured seriously like Juolevi, Joni Ikonen and Puljujärvi. Or at least take a huge hit on their earlier potential.

 

[bigdog16]

Dunno, man. He seems to most commonly be ranked #3 or #4 overall currently, even after the last season which wasn't amazing, and you're acting like it's ridiculous to say he'd be the next Adam Fox, who currently seems to be the most appropriate player comparison for him in NHL.

What makes what you say "the truth", anyway?

That's exactly the reason why Fox seems to be the most appropriate comparable, though.

Keep in mind they're 17-year-olds. They're not supposed to be on the same level as 25-year-old NHL veterans.

If, on the other hand, the expectation was that he was going to be on the level of a Torey Krug, I don't think he'd be ranked 3rd or 4th overall. That's more of a late first rounder.

Because Fox is arguably the top dman in the league. Projecting him as the top dman in the league is unfair and unrealistic. Its the same thing you did with Kakko.

Jared Spurgeon is a more accurate comp. Which is a fine outcome as he is a hell of a dman. But to compare him to one of the best defenseman on the planet is silly

 

[Mathieukferland]

I hope the best for Kiviharju but to my eyes he looked out of place at the WJC's as well.

Yes, I would agree with this. I know they cut him after the pre tournament games but got to see him play against Canada and the USA. Perhaps it’s different in the Finnish domestic league but in the two games I saw him he was not close to recent D-1 defenceman at that level like Dahlin or Nemec. Needs to work on foot speed and 1v1 defending. Good offensive instinct though, created some scoring chances from blue line walking, so I can see where the comparison to fox comes from but it pretty much ends after that.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Such considerations may or may not have affected his final position, but even the Central Scouting only had him ranked 50th among North American skaters. So I don't think it could be said that he fell, even if some did try to sell him as a potential late first as that was far from consensus anyway.

I’m lucky enough to have played against him and I will say there were other USA 97/98 defensemen that I thought were going to be much better. A late bloomer I think and once he got to Ann Arbour his game really took off. All that to say I don’t imagine Kiviharju reaches his level of what he has become in the NHL.

 

[Shocker]

Was bit confused by this thread at first, but then i realised the one spewing shit here is on my ignore list.

I would recommend that action to all.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Calling it now kiviharju will be over scouted much like Chychrun and drop and be a steal for someone.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

There has been zero improvement since 2021. He is a great player but his skating is really bad. It is all that is holding him back from being a top pairing dman in the NHL.

Can we just agree with that Kiviharju won't be nothing special as a NHL dman.
And he'll end up biggest Finnish draft bust since 2016 and Olli Juolevi.
Happy now?.

Edit
Sarcasm warning.

Calling it now kiviharju will be over scouted much like Chychrun and drop and be a steal for someone.

We'll see that next summer.
But can we first play season 2023-2024 before making statements like that?

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Kiviharju building profile for 2024 Draft at World Junior Summer Showcase | NHL.com

Top 17-year-old defenseman prospect flashing offensive ability, 'has like a computer in his head'

www.nhl.com

 

[Jukurit]

Kiviharju's skating lacks speed and explosiveness. That's a big concern for a small d-man.

 

[mistaclick]

Kiviharju's skating lacks speed and explosiveness. That's a big concern for a small d-man.

Agreed. I still like his tools otherwise, and I’ve always thought him to have an elite hockey mind since watching him in U20 and Intl junior play. Haven’t watched him in Liiga action yet. I think he’s a project, and I think his ceiling would be an Adam Fox-lite with less offensive output, won’t be an elite skater but has solid tools, good on the breakout, with an elite understanding of the game. Probably won’t be in the NHL until he’s at least 20-21 years old, in my opinion.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Agreed. I still like his tools otherwise, and I’ve always thought him to have an elite hockey mind since watching him in U20 and Intl junior play. Haven’t watched him in Liiga action yet. I think he’s a project, and I think his ceiling would be an Adam Fox-lite with less offensive output, won’t be an elite skater but has solid tools, good on the breakout, with an elite understanding of the game. Probably won’t be in the NHL until he’s at least 20-21 years old, in my opinion.

U20 defenders are very rare in the NHL.

Kiviharju's faults are known. But he has exceptional qualities too. He has skills and an ability to lead the game from the back that are very rarely seen in hockey.

 

[Habsrule]

Has anyone watched him play yet this year? Is he getting much ice time?

Kitchener Rangers own his CHL rights and would that maybe be the best path for him?

 

[Jukurit]

Has anyone watched him play yet this year? Is he getting much ice time?

Kitchener Rangers own his CHL rights and would that maybe be the best path for him?

His team has only played 1 regular season game so far and he played about 14 minutes. Played pretty good IMO. But his lack of speed is concerning. Clearly he's good enough to play in Liiga so going to OHL seems very unlikely.

 

[ijuka]

Has anyone watched him play yet this year? Is he getting much ice time?

Kitchener Rangers own his CHL rights and would that maybe be the best path for him?

Probably best D on the team in the first game of the season. Positive feedback by the team's fans.

 

[bebl]

His team has only played 1 regular season game so far and he played about 14 minutes. Played pretty good IMO. But his lack of speed is concerning. Clearly he's good enough to play in Liiga so going to OHL seems very unlikely.

Just to clarify my opinion: lack of speed is concerning in case of being nhl star but he is not slow in Liiga. I just don't think situation with his skating is that bad. Hintz had great glide and pretty good agility but he was not that explosive or super fast when he played in Liiga but look at him now. Kiviharju is just too smart and hard working guy to stuck at this level.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

His skating problems are so overrated. If you wanted, you could say he doesn’t skate as well as Makar or Hughes, and that’s true. You could also say he skates as well as Fox, but most likely he’s not going to be a top 32 defensemen in the NHL, so the comparisons to all these three players are a little silly.

There are smaller defensemen not in the 1D or 2D category though that don’t skate very well. Kevin Shattenkirk is an average skater. Torey Krug is an average skater. His skating makes it harder for him to be a 1D or a 2D, but I don’t think it’s something keeping him from being an effective NHL’er.

 

[vildurson]

I think he was on ice twice today on penalty kill when Lukko scored. I don't really understand why you necessarily want him on the pk right now but oh well.

Other than that, pretty good game from him. Confident with puck and made fast plays and read the game well. Got nice amounnt of responsibility from coach as well.