There were rumours in Turku that Ahokas was the reason for Aron to move away from TPS in the first place.
LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)
- Thread starter ijuka
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Exactly. People don’t seem to understand it.
And I can say it’s more than just rumours.
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
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Antonche
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You can’t discredit his D-2 and D-1 seasons. 21 games in Liiga in your D-1 as a dman who isn’t physically mature yet is quite impressive. He was playing decent minutes too on a good team. I like his skill set. Might be like an Adam Fox sort of player. Big year for him but I don’t think he’s going later than 10 when the draft comes around. Probably 5-10 is his range.
Postulates
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In scouting circles probably not but in the public eye for sure
In the OP, the op calls him generational straight away at the age of 11 instead of saying this kid could be a first-rounder someday automatically leads to this conversation when they fail to be a generational talent.
Adam Fox only trended upwards as his career went on.
Kiviharju has only trended downwards.
Literally had one down year after being the best dman in u18 bronze medal team as a 16 year old
There has been zero improvement since 2021. He is a great player but his skating is really bad. It is all that is holding him back from being a top pairing dman in the NHL.
That's a pretty ridiculous statement. What direction do you think he trended in 21-22? That was an incredibly strong year by any measure.
Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to trend upwards when your last year was far weaker. Even Kiviharju's last "downwards trending" year was far stronger than Fox's equivalent.
This isn't correct. He improved over the course of the 21-22 season, very clearly.
Antiillafire
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To be fair, the 2005 born Finnish d-class is weaker compared to what they usually produce. They didn’t have one taken until pick 91. Still he was really good at the Hlinka.
Antiillafire
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Ahh my mistake, thought he was speaking about the Hlinka tournament from a year ago
Since the end of the 21-22 season he has not improved. He has trended downwards since then. Not surprised you found the need to nitpick the obvious though.
If the fanboys are going to sit here and claim he's the next Adam Fox I will cry laughing. Same situation as Kakko being the next Forsberg/Lindros/Gretzky combo.
So making your debut in top mens league in your country and playing meaningful minutes for 21 games on a good team is not an improvement in anyway? Not better than playing U20 for 21-22 season?
And he’s not the next Fox. I said he’s like him. Not truly elite offensively but gifted IQ with good instincts. Great passer, effective on breakouts too. What I’ve seen at least in my viewings.
Playing Liiga minutes was the next step for him and he looked out of place. At the u20 level he looked no different from 21-22 to 22-23. I would actually argue he looked better in 21-22. Fox is an average NHL skater and would skate circles around Kiviharju.
You know, you could have made the same argument for Bedard in 21-22 - that he was trending downwards, especially with his weaker performance at the u-18s. But know what? One season isn't all-defining and doesn't mean that the player suddenly stopped improving for good.
Actually, if I compare Kiviharju's season to Bedard's, I'd say that Bedard had more of a downwards trend. Kiviharju had a stronger u-18 tournament, while Bedard's was weaker, for example.
All that is to say, maybe 1 season isn't enough for drawing conclusions regarding trends.
If I put more weight into a short tournament than an entire season then I would agree with you. But its silly to put a greater emphasis on a small sample size.
The overall point is that he was generational at one point. He isnt anymore and some of his peers have overtaken him. His skating needs to improve
Although I see Kiviharju as something of a niche player, in his defense it must be said that he was playing 22/23 largely with men in a very defensive system. He was clearly not all too happy with that, but regarding his overall development I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing to experience.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
The problem with the early Kiviharju hype was that we now see the dude is a smaller defenseman. When the guy is like 11 years old and people are calling him a phenom or prodigy or whatever term is used, you have almost no idea if the player ends up 5’9 or 6’2. And those five inches difference in height can make a huge difference.
Kiviharju is very good. I don’t think the people saying he was any of these things were wrong that the guy is extremely good at hockey and there can’t be more than a few players his age in the world that are better, if even that, when he’s now 17 years old, but it’s hard to project as a generational prospect when you’re 5’9.
I don’t see the need to criticize anyone. It was a good spot over five years ago that Kiviharju is very good and he remains that, but he’s probably going to be more of a top 10-15 pick as opposed to a 1OA contender or generational prospect due to his height. A phenom or prodigy at 11 years old potentially becoming a 2D or 3D in the NHL isn’t a bad outcome, and it’s also possible he could be a little better than that.
Kiviharju is very good. I don’t think the people saying he was any of these things were wrong that the guy is extremely good at hockey and there can’t be more than a few players his age in the world that are better, if even that, when he’s now 17 years old, but it’s hard to project as a generational prospect when you’re 5’9.
I don’t see the need to criticize anyone. It was a good spot over five years ago that Kiviharju is very good and he remains that, but he’s probably going to be more of a top 10-15 pick as opposed to a 1OA contender or generational prospect due to his height. A phenom or prodigy at 11 years old potentially becoming a 2D or 3D in the NHL isn’t a bad outcome, and it’s also possible he could be a little better than that.
The simple solution for Finnish people talking about their prospects is to bow down and accept whatever the North Americans say, which most of the time is pretty negative (certainly nothing positive) and in some cases disrespectful, like some people want to force others to accept their dislike of Finnish players. Certain people will never stop obsessing over some young Finnish players and will keep repeating the same things: you're a "fanboy" for not agreeing with him, every single person who ever compares Finnish prospects to any former great NHler is an idiot and makes him laugh so much etc
Just say that this or that Finnish prospect is maybe a 7th round pick even when there's been no actual downward trend no matter how hard certain people with their dislike towards every player and person from said country tell you otherwise. You'll save yourselves a lot of time by not even mentioning the 1st round for any Finnish player. Playing pro and not looking out of his depth isn't good enough nowadays, but playing junior isn't any better so what's the point? Sure he's 5'10 but isn't it funny how certain people focus on that and only that? I saw no games where he was in trouble because of his "horrible skating" or size.
Every player at 16-17yo playing pro games (or even any level) has to get used to actual pro players who are fully grown, no matter the size. It hasn't been a bad thing for Kiviharju to play against older and bigger players up to this point, he's been playing as a smaller and weaker guy for most of his junior "career" and as we all hopefully agree, hasn't stopped him from performing on an elite level so I don't see any reason to worry but that's just me. But at this point it's pretty pointless to even try to say how good and high potential of a player he is, it's been decided this season and there's no getting past that. Don't play Liiga games in your D-1 year and don't be Finnish so the yearly reaction from some people will not be a thing
Just say that this or that Finnish prospect is maybe a 7th round pick even when there's been no actual downward trend no matter how hard certain people with their dislike towards every player and person from said country tell you otherwise. You'll save yourselves a lot of time by not even mentioning the 1st round for any Finnish player. Playing pro and not looking out of his depth isn't good enough nowadays, but playing junior isn't any better so what's the point? Sure he's 5'10 but isn't it funny how certain people focus on that and only that? I saw no games where he was in trouble because of his "horrible skating" or size.
Every player at 16-17yo playing pro games (or even any level) has to get used to actual pro players who are fully grown, no matter the size. It hasn't been a bad thing for Kiviharju to play against older and bigger players up to this point, he's been playing as a smaller and weaker guy for most of his junior "career" and as we all hopefully agree, hasn't stopped him from performing on an elite level so I don't see any reason to worry but that's just me. But at this point it's pretty pointless to even try to say how good and high potential of a player he is, it's been decided this season and there's no getting past that. Don't play Liiga games in your D-1 year and don't be Finnish so the yearly reaction from some people will not be a thing
teravaineSAROS
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- Jul 29, 2015
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Yea there's a poster or two always hyping these prospects up, just because they write a lot it doesn't mean everybody's buying into it.
He's very interesting for sure but he has a lot of things to work on. He could be anything from a bust to Adam Fox at this point, I have no idea.
No I’m not. Some people just hate to hear the truth.you are biggest hater in these boards
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