DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
Rocky Wirtz lies through his teeth. If you think the Blackhawks were thirty days away from folding I've got a bridge to sell you.
Latest on the Arizona Coyotes Arena ordeal
- Thread starter hockeynugget
- Start date
This is almost a 30 year long experiment. The Coyotes have looked like a serious NHL franchise about 20% of that time.
Silky Johnson
I wish you all the bad things in life.
Not accounting losses for tax purposes.
But absolutely a loss in terms of value. If you sit on an investment at 0% return for 10 years, you have no losses to declare, but you are ABSOLUTELY POORER. Both literally as your money is less valuable (inflation) and in terms of opportunity cost. And that is before getting into a Cost of Capital discussion.
NPV is used because its better at analysing actual value.
My company (massive global private equity) cares more about NPV when evaluating acquisitions and projects and I believe this is nearly universally true.
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Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
- 23,731
- 19,634
This is all wishful thinking. Evidence shows that no one cares about the Coyotes in Arizona. Relocate them.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,848
- 3,067
Again...lots of teams. Winnipeg is currently one of the best teams in the league right now.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,848
- 3,067
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,848
- 3,067
Probably several. Better thread to get updated would be in the Business forum.
hangman005
It's my first day.
Chaos2k7
Believe!
Why do people talk about franchises that they obviously don't watch, follow, or even pay attention to? You just make yourself look uneducated, dying on a hill of reasoning that has no basis in reality other than you saw a game once years ago and that one night provides your entire experience to spout absolute garbage as facts?
Do yourself a favor and listen to people that actually are invested in the team, you may actually learn something useful.
Do yourself a favor and listen to people that actually are invested in the team, you may actually learn something useful.
hangman005
It's my first day.
To be fair BOH has the better threads on everything that has threads there and the mains.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,848
- 3,067
Rocky was an awful owner and I agree, no one should trust him. But it doesn't seem that farfetched when looking at the team attendance back then.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,848
- 3,067
Absolutely. The mains are to just pass the time. Business board is serious business.To be fair BOH has the better threads on everything that has threads there and the mains.
hangman005
It's my first day.
I would say don't often post on BOH, (I often read it) these days outside simpsons memes and game I don't post much anywhere
Chaos2k7
Believe!
Most of the posters that know they have no leg to stand on would not like their visit to a place based entirely upon proveable facts.
No hurt feelings, or wild conspiracies required.
But if some angry guy living in his parents’ basement can’t dunk on fans of an opposing team even if the poster doesn’t know what he’s talking about what’s the point of even living?
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,723
Give it another 20 minutes, someone will wade in with yet another ignorant comment about the Coyotes and ignore why Bettman and the NHL, with the support of the other 3 major sports leagues, went to bat to prevent the Coyotes from being sold and moved via bankruptcy, et. al.
hangman005
It's my first day.
I really hope the Yotes stick around and things finally get sorted. The fact the team still has fans left is nothing short of astounding.... or masochism
BTW why is your avatar the 66 Topeka Tornado?
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,289
- 8,723
And it still has people who drive by shitpost like they're the kid in high school who was proud to be the dumbest kid in the classroom.To be fair BOH has the better threads on everything that has threads there and the mains.
I hadn't had an avatar for a while, decided to put one up, decided to go with a tornado theme for a while because I tend to use it in other places. It's the first one that came up, and sometimes I feel like it's appropriate.
Edenjung
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2018
- 2,883
- 2,859
The feeling he has in his belly. But that could also be his last meal not sitting well
CheckingLineCenter
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2018
- 8,447
- 9,025
I sit on a deal team to make a living. The problem is you’re looking at this like a F500 financing/project decision or a PE deal at a 14% discount rate. PE raised a fund targeting a 3x/23% IRR in 5 years or a large tech co deciding to sign an office lease and using NPV/IRR to compare investment/allocation options is different from buying a sports team.
Heavily leveraged UNHW private capital buying a legacy asset is not the same thing. Cost of capital is way, way lower and it’s arguable that it’s not calculable. We‘ve funded real estate projects with private wealth vehicles for billionaires and you can accept sub 5% returns bc your cost of capital is nonexistent (you’re borrowing against your own liquidity). You’re happy to do so because you own something you can brag about, combats inflation, and you’re gonna hold for 99+ years.
A billionaire or syndicate of LPs that owns a sports team is likely fine clipping off 1-3% coupon like returns and banking appreciation for the luxury and prestige of owning a big 4 franchise.
I’m not saying Meruelo/NHL is happy with the financial performance but the Coyotes don’t need to hit a 14% hurdle rate over a decade to avoid bleeding because of NPV/TVM. They weren’t comparing it to another decision or allocation. Plus we don’t know the financing structure to calculate free cash flow either, so just going off operating performance isn’t really accurate. Which is what Westhead a reporter and not a finance guy doesn’t get.
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MessierII
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2011
- 28,182
- 17,251
Right nothing to do with the decades of 10+ million operating losses and inability to find an arena. Show me another sports franchise anywhere in the world given this many chances with no real reason behind it?The feeling he has in his belly. But that could also be his last meal not sitting well
Took a little over 30, lmao
Edenjung
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2018
- 2,883
- 2,859
HSV, Hertha BSC, 1860 München, Minardi back in the day in F1, lots and lots of other teams in brasilian football, stoke city in England.
And those are only the ones that came directly to my mind.
Edenjung
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2018
- 2,883
- 2,859
Then why care?
Really why does anybody outside of the fans and the owners spend their time and energy on this?
First of all you cannot change anything so why spend time and effort on it?
Just ignore it.
Second it does not affect anybody besides maybe the owners and the fans of the yotes. So why spend time and energy on that?
It boggles my mind to see so many people writing about it even though it does not impact them in the slightest.
You guys could use that time and energy on way better things. And be happy instead of being angry about something that doesn't concern you in the slightest and that you cannot change or influence.
