Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates

Who gets fired if the Leafs lose in the first round again

  • Both Dubas and Keefe

    Votes: 34 13.8%
  • Just Dubas

    Votes: 18 7.3%
  • Just Keefe

    Votes: 13 5.3%
  • Shanahan

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • No one

    Votes: 70 28.3%
  • No one gets fired but major trades happen

    Votes: 59 23.9%
  • The entire organization gets cleaned out

    Votes: 13 5.3%
  • Depends how they perform

    Votes: 38 15.4%

  • Total voters
    247
Status
Not open for further replies.
Curious to how this is an alltime coaching blunder?

It's fine not to like Keefe but it is ridiculous to think he would be fired after 1.5 seasons of which both were played under circumstances that no one had been through before.

The Leafs badly outplayed Montreal. They couldn't score. That shows the gameplan created by the coach was fine. The execution by the players was awful.
The blunder was not getting Matthews and Marner away from Danault in game 5 and 7 when he had last change. cooper kept his guys away from him in Tampa in game 1 and took control of the series. played his top line against suzuki which also neutralized Mtl's top offensive line.
 
The blunder was not getting Matthews and Marner away from Danault in game 5 and 7 when he had last change. cooper kept his guys away from him in Tampa in game 1 and took control of the series. played his top line against suzuki which also neutralized Mtl's top offensive line.
He didn't adjust at all
And they outplayed them until they were up 3-1. Game 6 was bad and game 7 was embarrassing. Like they were ok with losing
 
Would have been a great point if the Devils won a Cup or reached the finals that year. But alas, they didn't.


So two deep runs and six playoff berths. For Dubas this is year four. Kind of a rhetorical question, but how many should he get considering Bergevin got ten?
Bergevin did more by year two than Dubas has in four so I'm not sure what your argument is
 
Would have been a great point if the Devils won a Cup or reached the finals that year. But alas, they didn't.

They did !!!! .. So I guess it was a great point.

In 2000, Lou Lamoriello, fired Robbie Ftorek with eight games to play in regular season . Then interim coach, Larry Robinson, led the Devils to the second of their three Stanley Cup championships that season.

Thought you would know that considering they played our Leafs on the way to that Cup ..

Series J ........................................ W L GF GA

New Jersey Devils .................... 4 2 16 9
Toronto Maple Leafs .............. 2 4 9 16

Apr 27 New Jersey Devils 1 2 at Toronto Maple Leafs
Apr 29 New Jersey Devils 1 0 at Toronto Maple Leafs
May 1 Toronto Maple Leafs 1 5 at New Jersey Devils
May 3 Toronto Maple Leafs 3 2 at New Jersey Devils
May 6 New Jersey Devils 4 3 at Toronto Maple Leafs
May 8 Toronto Maple Leafs 0 3 at New Jersey Devils

New Jersey Devils win series 4 games to 2
 
Last edited:
Bergevin did more by year two than Dubas has in four so I'm not sure what your argument is
The counter to two deep runs is that Bergevin missed the playoff four times in ten years while Dubas has missed none. And if, as some argue, winning Cups is the only playoff result that really matters, they're even.
 
They did !!!! .. So I guess it was a great point.

In 2000, Lou Lamoriello, fired Robbie Ftorek with eight games to play in regular season . Then interim coach, Larry Robinson, led the Devils to the second of their three Stanley Cup championships that season.
You cited 2007, not 2000.
 
The counter to two deep runs is that Bergevin missed the playoff four times in ten years while Dubas has missed none. And if, as some argue, winning Cups is the only playoff result that really matters, they're even.
Yea I'm cup or bust, but I think most of us would be happy with some of the runs Montreal's had compared to what the Leafs have done
 
The blunder was not getting Matthews and Marner away from Danault in game 5 and 7 when he had last change. cooper kept his guys away from him in Tampa in game 1 and took control of the series. played his top line against suzuki which also neutralized Mtl's top offensive line.
I mean he did get Mathhews and Marner starts away from Danault. I guess not enough. But in all honesty it's not like Danault shut them down. They had countless chances from in vlose but couldn't convert.

Go rewatch the series. Danault did not do much of anything to slow them down
 
I mean he did get Mathhews and Marner starts away from Danault. I guess not enough. But in all honesty it's not like Danault shut them down. They had countless chances from in vlose but couldn't convert.

Go rewatch the series. Danault did not do much of anything to slow them down
I suggest you rewatch it too, then rewatch game one of the finals to see how Cooper easily beat the matchup. Chances are one thing but they were not getting it done against Danault so try something different. He seemed too focused on maximizing their minutes as opposed to maximizing their production. If it's any consolation Pete DeBoer made the same mistake. Playing against Danault, Stone had zero points and Pacioretty one goal. Keefe did not think loosing that series was a possibility until it was way too late- probably into the 3rd period of game 7. He failed to see what Mtl was doing and failed to react to it.

Just because you have the best players doesn't mean you don't play the matchup game. aside from is years in Buffalo Bowman usually had the best players and he was a master matchup guy.
 
I suggest you rewatch it too, then rewatch game one of the finals to see how Cooper easily beat the matchup. Chances are one thing but they were not getting it done against Danault so try something different. He seemed too focused on maximizing their minutes as opposed to maximizing their production. If it's any consolation Pete DeBoer made the same mistake. Playing against Danault, Stone had zero points and Pacioretty one goal. Keefe did not think loosing that series was a possibility until it was way too late- probably into the 3rd period of game 7. He failed to see what Mtl was doing and failed to react to it.

Just because you have the best players doesn't mean you don't play the matchup game. aside from is years in Buffalo Bowman usually had the best players and he was a master matchup guy.
Good point about maximizing minutes over matchup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CDN24
I suggest you rewatch it too, then rewatch game one of the finals to see how Cooper easily beat the matchup. Chances are one thing but they were not getting it done against Danault so try something different. He seemed too focused on maximizing their minutes as opposed to maximizing their production. If it's any consolation Pete DeBoer made the same mistake. Playing against Danault, Stone had zero points and Pacioretty one goal. Keefe did not think loosing that series was a possibility until it was way too late- probably into the 3rd period of game 7. He failed to see what Mtl was doing and failed to react to it.

Just because you have the best players doesn't mean you don't play the matchup game. aside from is years in Buffalo Bowman usually had the best players and he was a master matchup guy.
But I highly doubt he failed to see what Mtl was doing. The mistake he made was more likely trusting the process that was working to generate chances and believing eventually the odds would work out.

The top line had 75 shots. Many of them from the slot or in front of the net. They scored 2. I would wager top follar that will never happen again
 
I really honestly believe that there’s a certain % of this fan base that wouldn’t care if the Leafs never won a round in the playoffs again. I really do.
An equal % would be disappointed if the Leafs won a round and would be dismayed if they actually won a Cup.
 
I think if we lose in the 1st round yet again this year, I'm going to try to train myself to only care about the regular season. Treat it like the Premier League. Wherever we finish in the regular season is where we are.

If I deny the playoffs exist, I'll get a longer Summer to enjoy.
You can do that. For me, I am going to continue enjoy every game.
 
No one gets fired, but a major trade happens.

At this point, I firmly believe Dubas is a damn good GM. He's excellent at the draft table and signs depth forwards like it's easy. The Oilers would have won a cup years ago with Dubas handing them an endless cycle of goal scorers and defensive forwards on 1m contracts. He rebuilt our defense from what was a heinous pile of garbage into the strongest D group I can remember for this team. We're scratching a good defenseman every night. Dubas has made his mistakes like the Kadri trade and Ritchie/Mrazek, but he doesn't double down on them and doesn't have an obvious trend of repeating mistakes. He's tried different blends such as skillful fourth lines and veteran grinders. He's tried a soft puck moving defense and evolved it into the big mobile force it is now. This guy is working to build the team and is consistently adding value. It's a f***in drag that he hasn't gotten the recipe right yet, but I also blame players for some of their failures and I can clearly see a GM who is improving. I'm willing to stand by him and hope he stays regardless of the playoff outcome this year. This has been a damn good team under his watch and I'm satisfied with that.

There's a lot of bad GM's out there with NHL jobs and even more looking for NHL jobs. I know I'd rather have Dubas than the mystery GM.

I genuinely do not care about Keefe one way or the other. But this does look like a damn good team and I'll give him credit for that.

If they do lose this playoffs I think the big4 experiment has just about run its course. It was fun as hell while it lasted and I was a fan of it the whole way through, but if it doesn't work it doesn't work. We're not likely to outright fleece another team while moving a core piece, but honestly this team is so rich with player talent and prospect capital that we're in great shape. Just mix the group up and keep working to perfect the recipe.
Yep 100%
 
"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.
Or if Matty and MM potted a collective 5 more goals

But they didn't

Oh God why in the f*&* am I rehashing horse puckey that cannot be changed, jeepers cripes can you people not move forward, just when you think you're out they pull you back in again
 
The irony really is quite ridiculous.

I have a feeling there are some here who are just bookmarking posts and waiting to say “I told you so!” when we finally do have success rather than enjoying a championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gives them more enjoyment than the actual winning.

You don’t have to love everything about this team to be a fan. Apparently that’s not good enough for some self-proclaimed “diehards” however. At the end of the day, we all just want to see this team win. Even the biggest Dubas critics.
It's the ones that give you the itoaduso when a loss occurs and do so while reveling in their collective negativity. If I were an admin I'd put the banhammer on them dudes as soon as look at them
 
Cmon! In the not so distant past Willy was home in Sweden sitting out, things change, Willy wanted more money and he got it, Mik wanted more playing time and he got it.

The past is gone its how we move forward that's important.

Mik is emerging and maybe somebody goes Hyman on him and if that's the case then you say goodbye, but maybe he says to Dubas that he wants to stay and a 4 yr 4.75 contract will do it. Willy can get you a young Dman who can play in the top 4 and a prime pick or two. You'd have to do it, common sense dictates it in light of the cap.

Knies is going to be signed for the season coming up, but Jack also needs to be signed(?) And there are still cap restraints that might prevent that, so Muzzin? which that contract probably costs you to move, unless you can move both guys in a pkg.

No matter what the Leafs have some hard decisions to make, and whether it's letting Mik go, moving one or two of the big contracts it's going to happen indeed has to happen, considering the cap position

Ii don't disagree that the team has some complex manuvering to do, but I'd disagree that there is an outright NEED or even desirability to move a bigger contract like Nylanders.

Again, I think you may be a bit optimistic on what Mik will cost, there's always another team needing some skill in their top six that eill likely be able to offer a bigger contract - just as what happened with Hyman. Ie why sign with the Leafs for 4.75x4 when you could get 5.5x5 somewhere else ect.

There's always contracts that can be moved. Kerfoot, Muzzin (I'd disagree it's going to cost the team to trade him), even Mzarek gives Dubas 11+ mil to play around with if he so chooses. If Milk goes to another team as I think he dos, that free agency spending amount grows even more.

The cap also isn't going to stay static. It's expected to start to rise more notably as Matthews/Nylanders contracts come to an end in 2024 too.
 
Look on the bright side after embarrassing losses to CBJ and Mon the past 2 years there really is no where to go but up from here as they were already sitting at the bottom after those performances.

Being up 3-1 games on the #18th ranked Montreal Canadiens that wouldn't even have qualified to make the playoffs without a Pandemic rule change and alignment, would already have costed a coach and perhaps a GM their jobs when expectations were so high going into the playoffs and the path of QofC never going to be easier.

Some would say Leafs young management is already on borrowed time if being judged on performance of the past playoffs , and so lets hope this is the year after ex Gm Lou Lam who gifted them a 60 goal and potential best all-time generational player before his departure, that they make the most of this what should be "last chance" opportunity in most organizations.

Hopefully the Leafs do break through because haven't won a playoff round since 2004 and since the salary cap was instituted, is weighing heavily on the franchise, and current management is squandering years before these current contracts expire, as this window closes.

As a long time suffering Leafs fans since the 1960's I be thrilled with playoff success, and understand that its likely going to be driven by Auston Matthews, and the current management can ride those coattails of his Hart, Rocket Richard, and hopefully Conn Smythe playoff MVP of his success all the way to hoisting the Cup, and then when the dust settles history will show it was Lou Lam that turned it all around for the organization and provided the KEY component Matthews so that future management can bask in any and all future playoff success he provides.

That wouldn't bother me one bit, as that is what I'm hoping for to happen, and sooner rather than later !! Its the losing that is bothering me not any potential winning.

Don't you think it's a wee bit simplistic to frame things this way?

This isn't basketball - Crosby and McDavid have both shown that a single world class level talent can't bring a team to a cup on their own.

Lou was certainly a very lucky man that he was head of the worst hockey team in the NHL for that season and draft, and he'll get a share of the credit when/if the Leafs win the cup. Just as Burke will for adding Rielly. But let's not act that adding a single player is the sum total of a rebuild.
 
Zeke doesn't believe most things he posts. He simply tries to get a rise out of people, and is often successful. This is the same poster who years ago died on the hill saying Reimer was a legitimate starting option, and then continually made a scapegoat of Freddie Andersen, who was a much better goaltender.

Anyway, to the topic at hand I doubt either Keefe/Dubas is fired this summer, regardless of what happens in the first round. Setting franchise records in points and wins will buy them another season at least.

You’re absolutely right. If I gave a shit I could look up all his embarrassing takes and post them here. We all know he’s been wrong way more than he’s been right and he’s said tons of dumb shit like most other posters. I’m just not going to stoop to his level. Let him have his win.
 
Toronto media will defend him no matter what happens in the playoffs. Dubas has a job for life unless Matthews decides to leave after his term is done.
 
Toronto media will defend him no matter what happens in the playoffs. Dubas has a job for life unless Matthews decides to leave after his term is done.
I doubt he will have a job for life, but of course the media- Toronto or anyone will point out the job he has done. The team has another chance of going far in the playoffs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad