Prospect Info: Lassi Thomson, Defence, 19th Overall

[bert]

Cowen would still be carving out a role in the league if it wasn't for the hip injuries. People aren't giving him enough credit for the player/prospect he was before it all fell apart. Hockey IQ wasn't a particularly glaring issue for his first couple of years in the league and he actually had some offensive tools. Bit of bad luck that the league was shifting towards speed and skill the moment we took him, but he wasn't some Dylan McIlraith redux. That's not to say he was worth his draft spot, even if he remained healthy his whole career, but it's easy to remember the dude who couldn't pivot and quickly fell out the league and not the guy who looked like he could have been Parayko-esque.

To bring the conversation back to Lassi, I'm much more concerned about his apparent IQ issues than I ever with Cowen. Jared just couldn't skate at an AHL level, let alone NHL level after injuries. Lassi is a guy who took the step to playing the pro game and seems to have fallen apart mentally, and that's just not something you can fix.

This just isn't true, it was blatantly obvious at the world juniors he had trouble anticipating the play and handling the puck when the speed ramped up.

Its also obvious Thomson struggles with hockey IQ. At this point if he plays in the NHL it will be a huge win from my perspective. Sens have alot of prospects odds are some are gonna be big misses and some will be hits. Just the way it goes.

 

[Tuna99]

This just isn't true, it was blatantly obvious at the world juniors he had trouble anticipating the play and handling the puck when the speed ramped up.

Its also obvious Thomson struggles with hockey IQ. At this point if he plays in the NHL it will be a huge win from my perspective. Sens have alot of prospects odds are some are gonna be big misses and some will be hits. Just the way it goes.

I’m agreeing with this, I’d like to see him on a smaller rink and see if that suits his game better. I think he’ll get NHL games a la Brian Lee where they play him just hold his value for a trade, but if he makes it at this point as a Chris Wideman type I’d be happy with that.

 

[Sweatred]

I’m agreeing with this, I’d like to see him on a smaller rink and see if that suits his game better. I think he’ll get NHL games a la Brian Lee where they play him just hold his value for a trade, but if he makes it at this point as a Chris Wideman type I’d be happy with that.

He has more defensive shutdown or PK potential than Wideman.

 

[Tuna99]

He has more defensive shutdown or PK potential than Wideman.

Brian Lee went from Brian Leetch to a puck mover, to a bottom pairing puck mover to a bottom pairing stay at home guy to a bottom pairing pylon.

Thomson doesn’t seem to do anything well besides the big shot. So however he makes it, for a smaller body who is skinny, I don’t think he’ll be able to handle the grind of a shut down PK guy, so at this point I think you’re just hoping for legit NHL minutes and not a charity case

Brian Murray took Rundblad and turned him into Turris. Need something similar to happen on a smaller scale, difference being Rundblad I think was the #1 rated prospect coming into the NHL and of course had that beauty first few games, and then of course, nothing more then that

 

[Sweatred]

Brian Lee went from Brian Leetch to a puck mover, to a bottom pairing puck mover to a bottom pairing stay at home guy to a bottom pairing pylon.

Thomson doesn’t seem to do anything well besides the big shot. So however he makes it, for a smaller body who is skinny, I don’t think he’ll be able to handle the grind of a shut down PK guy, so at this point I think you’re just hoping for legit NHL minutes and not a charity case

Brian Murray took Rundblad and turned him into Turris. Need something similar to happen on a smaller scale, difference being Rundblad I think was the #1 rated prospect coming into the NHL and of course had that beauty first few games, and then of course, nothing more then that

I think your selling LT a little short, but it will be interesting seeing him at camp and in general AHL.

I do agree that we will be moving bodies , I hope more the Wolanin, Zub types as they approach UFA vs the young kids but they all should be available.

 

[aragorn]

Hey man I’m all for being positive but two of those left sided d havent sniffed pro hockey. A little early to be saying they’re set in stone. Maybe we draft a guy even bigger than kleven, what then?

They are playing at the highest level of college hockey for one of the best teams in the NCAA & playing a prominent role for their teams. They have also been heavily scouted & called upon to play for their countries in the biggest tournament in junior hockey. I have yet to hear a bad word about any of them since they were drafted & consistently hear how much better they are than first thought. Considering who else they have in their org, IMO they are the best we have.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm not debating that Cowen was ranked high or that it was a surprise he was drafted top 10, I'm saying the consensus was stupid to think he was a top 10 pick. You can link to whatever source you want that incorrectly described Cowen's game, but someone so lacking in hockey sense and skill should never have gone anywhere near the top 10.

Obviously, scouting wasn't as evolved as it is today, both professional and amateur, so expect less mistakes today. That being said, it doesn't mean that we really know what Jared Cowen "could have been"

Thinking it was "stupid" that Cowen was viewed as a top-10 pick confirms that you weren't following prospects back then. Cowen absolutely looked like a rock in the making, it was almost unanimous. People were projecting him as a top pairing minute eater producing offense as well, and on the PP too. Basically a lesser version of Chara. If you look at the other options selected after Cowen, maybe there wasn't that many options who looked like it could have been a better choice at the time of the draft.

Again, it's not a black and white thing. A lack of hockey sense is maybe not detectable for a 16 or 17 y/o playing in junior. Cowen had a great deal of mobility, reach, physicality and a booming shot. His "lack of hockey sense" as you say never got exposed as he had the tools to dominate. And that's what he did in junior and even in the AHL (small sample size)

The thing is he started running into injury problems quite early in his development. Who knows how he would have developped if he never ran into injuries? If he had great hockey sense he would have been fine but he didn't. He wasn't supposed to rely on that, like many players haven't in the past. Like someone else also said, the league in general has really evolved in terms of pace, so "hockey sense" became much more important than before.

And as I said so many times before, some people seem to really minimalize the impact of injuries on hockey players development or career. Any person who has experienced it probably understands. Most injuries will leave you diminished in some way.

It kinda reminds me of Chris Phillips who looked very "smart" in his prime but as he aged and lost some mobility, people were mocking him big time on the internet.

Anybody losing any sort of quickness in the NHL will be exposed. The pace of the game is really damn fast. Alexei Kovalev became a non-threat almost instantly when he lost a fraction of second in his release.

 

[JD1]

I'm not debating that Cowen was ranked high or that it was a surprise he was drafted top 10, I'm saying the consensus was stupid to think he was a top 10 pick. You can link to whatever source you want that incorrectly described Cowen's game, but someone so lacking in hockey sense and skill should never have gone anywhere near the top 10.



If I have ever said that we reached for a player it's in reference to where I viewed their correct draft position, not where the consensus ranked them.

Thomson was a reach IMO at 19 because I wouldn't have drafted him until the late 2nd at the earliest, even if he was generally ranked in the late 1st.

What derailed Cowen's career was a wonky hip, not a lack of IQ.

 

[JD1]

He had no idea how to anticipate the play. Hockey sense was undoubtedly his biggest weakness.

I disagree. Hip injury caused mobility problems

 

[JD1]

Obviously, scouting wasn't as evolved as it is today, both professional and amateur, so expect less mistakes today. That being said, it doesn't mean that we really know what Jared Cowen "could have been"

Thinking it was "stupid" that Cowen was viewed as a top-10 pick confirms that you weren't following prospects back then. Cowen absolutely looked like a rock in the making, it was almost unanimous. People were projecting him as a top pairing minute eater producing offense as well, and on the PP too. Basically a lesser version of Chara. If you look at the other options selected after Cowen, maybe there wasn't that many options who looked like it could have been a better choice at the time of the draft.

Again, it's not a black and white thing. A lack of hockey sense is maybe not detectable for a 16 or 17 y/o playing in junior. Cowen had a great deal of mobility, reach, physicality and a booming shot. His "lack of hockey sense" as you say never got exposed as he had the tools to dominate. And that's what he did in junior and even in the AHL (small sample size)

The thing is he started running into injury problems quite early in his development. Who knows how he would have developped if he never ran into injuries? If he had great hockey sense he would have been fine but he didn't. He wasn't supposed to rely on that, like many players haven't in the past. Like someone else also said, the league in general has really evolved in terms of pace, so "hockey sense" became much more important than before.

And as I said so many times before, some people seem to really minimalize the impact of injuries on hockey players development or career. Any person who has experienced it probably understands. Most injuries will leave you diminished in some way.

It kinda reminds me of Chris Phillips who looked very "smart" in his prime but as he aged and lost some mobility, people were mocking him big time on the internet.

Anybody losing any sort of quickness in the NHL will be exposed. The pace of the game is really damn fast. Alexei Kovalev became a non-threat almost instantly when he lost a fraction of second in his release.

People are mockijg Karlsson and we know that's not an iq issue

 

[playasRus]

Feel like many people are ready to give up on this kid. Easy to forget that he was the youngest player in Belleville this year, until Sogaard, Greig and Jarventie showed up at the end.

For reference, at 19 years of age, he's younger than: Sokolov by 9 months, Crookshank by 11 months, and Logan Brown whom we're all saying to give another year, is 2.5 years older.

 

[foggyvisor]

I want to keep him just long enough to watch him deke himself out on a breakaway and then get pounded into the crossbar by Nolan Patrick.

 

[JungleBeat]

Feel like many people are ready to give up on this kid. Easy to forget that he was the youngest player in Belleville this year, until Sogaard, Greig and Jarventie showed up at the end.

For reference, at 19 years of age, he's younger than: Sokolov by 9 months, Crookshank by 11 months, and Logan Brown whom we're all saying to give another year, is 2.5 years older.

Age isn’t going to fix hockey sense

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Feel like many people are ready to give up on this kid. Easy to forget that he was the youngest player in Belleville this year, until Sogaard, Greig and Jarventie showed up at the end.

For reference, at 19 years of age, he's younger than: Sokolov by 9 months, Crookshank by 11 months, and Logan Brown whom we're all saying to give another year, is 2.5 years older.

Yeah and managements talk about him is positive. He is a work in progress but has all the tools to be a top 4

 

[BondraTime]

Feel like many people are ready to give up on this kid. Easy to forget that he was the youngest player in Belleville this year, until Sogaard, Greig and Jarventie showed up at the end.

For reference, at 19 years of age, he's younger than: Sokolov by 9 months, Crookshank by 11 months, and Logan Brown whom we're all saying to give another year, is 2.5 years older.

Thomson turns 21 in 4 months, he’s 3 months younger than Sokolov.

 

[Yak]

Yeah and managements talk about him is positive. He is a work in progress but has all the tools to be a top 4

Well I don't think they are going to be negative but he is a work in progress and as we know some defensemen take longer to mature and Lassi seems like he is going to be in that class. Just don't be writing him our line up for next 3 years IMO. He also could part of a trade down the road.

I honestly was not a fan of this pick when he was drafted but some you hit and some you miss.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Wondering how many people have actually watched him play recently with people still bringing up his hockey sense.

Only issue I have seen is him getting beat wide a few occasions. Hockey sense and decision making looks vastly different from beginning of season. He's actually pulled off some really high IQ moves recently. To me it appears to be an issue of confidence.

 

[BondraTime]

Wondering how many people have actually watched him play recently with people still bringing up his hockey sense.

Only issue I have seen is him getting beat wide a few occasions. Hockey sense and decision making looks vastly different from beginning of season. He's actually pulled off some really high IQ moves recently. To me it appears to be an issue of confidence.

Watched every recent game from Belleville aside from the Series in Stockton, everything I’ve questioned him about watching him in Finland and little in Kelowna I’ve seen in Belleville. Fantastic tools, cannon of a shot, can move the puck well, but anytime there’s pressure, he takes 2 seconds to make a 1 second decision. Happens very often. Gets zoned in and gets tunnel vision when he wants to get the puck to a certain place.

Mann’s talked about his decision making already this year, haven’t seen an improvement there over this stretch of fantastic play by Belleville.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Watched every recent game from Belleville aside from the Series in Stockton, everything I’ve questioned him about watching him in Finland and little in Kelowna I’ve seen in Belleville. Fantastic tools, cannon of a shot, can move the puck well, but anytime there’s pressure, he takes 2 seconds to make a 1 second decision. Happens very often. Gets zoned in and gets tunnel vision when he wants to get the puck to a certain place.

Mann’s talked about his decision making already this year, haven’t seen an improvement there over this stretch of fantastic play by Belleville.

Yeah I disagree on him. I think he’s gotten better as the years progressed. Those first ~15/20 it looked like he didn’t want the puck on his stick at all. Since then tho much more comfortable. And the defending without the puck I was pretty impressed with.
Although I suspect his fitness isn’t quite at pro level yet I find there’s such a massive difference between start of the shift Thomson and end of the shift Thomson.
Either way. Mann has already said he expects him to be in the A for a while. I suspect Dorion does too.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah I disagree on him. I think he’s gotten better as the years progressed. Those first ~15/20 it looked like he didn’t want the puck on his stick at all. Since then tho much more comfortable. And the defending without the puck I was pretty impressed with.
Although I suspect his fitness isn’t quite at pro level yet I find there’s such a massive difference between start of the shift Thomson and end of the shift Thomson.
Either way. Mann has already said he expects him to be in the A for a while. I suspect Dorion does too.

2 more seasons and he he’ll be in our top 4 from the Dorion presser the other day I believe. Would be fantastic, but is veryyy optimistic IMO.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Watched every recent game from Belleville aside from the Series in Stockton, everything I’ve questioned him about watching him in Finland and little in Kelowna I’ve seen in Belleville. Fantastic tools, cannon of a shot, can move the puck well, but anytime there’s pressure, he takes 2 seconds to make a 1 second decision. Happens very often. Gets zoned in and gets tunnel vision when he wants to get the puck to a certain place.

Mann’s talked about his decision making already this year, haven’t seen an improvement there over this stretch of fantastic play by Belleville.

Respectfully disagree. He's been fantastic at moving the puck when pressured recently, especially on the forecheck. It's actually been a huge positive how he calmly makes smart passes/decisions under pressure in his own zone. To me, it's quite the opposite--he makes dumb plays when he has too much time, on a few occasions. His decision making is what I've actually been most impressed with in recent games. Including his defensive game which is leaps and bounds better than start of the season.

And tbh, his shot has been rarely on display. He hasn't used it at all last 10 ish games. He did last game for huge wind-up but stick broke. What I have seen are very smart pucks funneled to the front of the net/around the boards.

Heck, even at the beginning of the year, while struggling, he still looked like the best defender on the roster. Aspirot has passed him recently but they're close.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

2 more seasons and he he’ll be in our top 4 from the Dorion presser the other day I believe. Would be fantastic, but is veryyy optimistic IMO.

Well I don’t subscribe to that idea. 23 year old bonafide top 4 defenders. It’s far fetched

 

[BondraTime]

Respectfully disagree. He's been fantastic at moving the puck when pressured recently, especially on the forecheck. It's actually been a huge positive how he calmly makes smart passes/decisions under pressure in his own zone. To me, it's quite the opposite--he makes dumb plays when he has too much time, on a few occasions. His decision making is what I've actually been most impressed with in recent games. Including his defensive game which is leaps and bounds better than start of the season.

And tbh, his shot has been rarely on display. He hasn't used it at all last 10 ish games. He did last game for huge wind-up but stick broke. What I have seen are very smart pucks funneled to the front of the net/around the boards.

Heck, even at the beginning of the year, while struggling, he still looked like the best defender on the roster. Aspirot has passed him recently but they're close.

We are definitely seeing different players on the ice, hope the guy you're seeing is more accurate

 

[playasRus]

Thomson turns 21 in 4 months, he’s 3 months younger than Sokolov.

And yet we laud one guy who's come from junior hockey and showed to be a 0.66 ish ppg winger, while putting down the D man coming over from international ice. I'm not saying he's a lock or likely to be top 4 D. I'm just saying, don't count out the AHL rookie from the finnish elite league who only got to play 11 games last year. He's no where near the NHL entry product we'll expect in 2 years.

Although I do realize how farfetched it is for PD to expect him to replaced Zub in 2 years. His lack of decision making and hockey sense could be exacerbated by lack of hockey last year plus change in environment this year. Team saw more than just tools when they took him as a mid 1st round pick that is by no means lost forever in a 19 year old.

20 year old Zub probably wasn't projected to replace current Zub, or he would have been drafted in the 1st round too!

 

[BondraTime]

And yet we laud one guy who's come from junior hockey and showed to be a 0.66 ish ppg winger, while putting down the D man coming over from international ice. I'm not saying he's a lock or likely to be top 4 D. I'm just saying, don't count out the AHL rookie from the finnish elite league who only got to play 11 games last year. He's no where near the NHL entry product we'll expect in 2 years.

Although I do realize how farfetched it is for PD to expect him to replaced Zub in 2 years. His lack of decision making and hockey sense could be exacerbated by lack of hockey last year plus change in environment this year. Team saw more than just tools when they took him as a mid 1st round pick that is by no means lost forever in a 19 year old.

20 year old Zub probably wasn't projected to replace current Zub, or he would have been drafted in the 1st round too!

Thomson already played a year in Canada, and played 53 games games last year