Prospect Info: Lassi Thomson, Defence, 19th Overall

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No question his performance in Europe this season was poor, so let us hope that his game is more suited for the north american style and that he can get back on track in Belleville and prove his worth.

Heinola who was drafted one spot after Thomson has 14 points in 19 games placing him 5th in defenseman scoring. Not saying he would have been a better pick, as it is still too early but those two will always be compared since they were picked so close together in the draft.

Thomson over Heinola is a perfect example of drafting for tools instead of the toolbox

Same goes for Cowen over Ellis in 2009 and Ceci over Maatta in 2012.

Doesn't matter how big a D is, how well he skates and how hard he shoots the puck - if he can't think or move the puck he won't help you.
 

FormentonTheFuture

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Thomson over Heinola is a perfect example of drafting for tools instead of the toolbox

Same goes for Cowen over Ellis in 2009 and Ceci over Maatta in 2012.

Doesn't matter how big a D is, how well he skates and how hard he shoots the puck - if he can't think or move the puck he won't help you.
What toolbox does Olli Maatta possess? He's a below average d-man
 

Icelevel

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Thomson over Heinola is a perfect example of drafting for tools instead of the toolbox

Same goes for Cowen over Ellis in 2009 and Ceci over Maatta in 2012.

Doesn't matter how big a D is, how well he skates and how hard he shoots the puck - if he can't think or move the puck he won't help you.
TBF, Lassi was looking pretty good until recently. His numbers from last year were impressive. This year not very good. Hopefully a minor injury??
 

cudi

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Feb 2, 2020
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Looking forward to seeing him with our own eyes.

Always grateful for scouting reports, but those only go so far. I dont think anyone is writing him off or calling him a bust, fingers crossed hes more comfortable on the smaller ice. As a super physical player id bet he is
 
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BondraTime

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Looking forward to seeing him with our own eyes.

Always grateful for scouting reports, but those only go so far. I dont think anyone is writing him off or calling him a bust, fingers crossed hes more comfortable on the smaller ice. As a super physical player id bet he is
Super physical player? What?
 

Xspyrit

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Good thing Lassi Thomson is coming to NA, he needs to be coached and work on his defiencies as well as to be put in a role where he could use his assets.

He has to turn things around because in just one year, he got leapfrogged by a lot of prospects and young players in the Ottawa system

Thomson over Heinola is a perfect example of drafting for tools instead of the toolbox

Same goes for Cowen over Ellis in 2009 and Ceci over Maatta in 2012.

Doesn't matter how big a D is, how well he skates and how hard he shoots the puck - if he can't think or move the puck he won't help you.

Ideally a D-man has both, the tools and toolbox because it's hard to succeed in the NHL nowadays without both. Not that long ago, D-men were able to carve out NHL careers with just an "average" toolbox or a weakness like skating (ex : Hal Gill) just by being good positionally. But now that the talent level in the NHL has increased so much, it gets harder and harder every year.

Teams scout other teams like crazy and have in-depth reports on every NHL player as they will want to exploit players weaknesses as part of the game plan. For example, every small weakness a goalie has (blocker, glove, lateral movement) is well known by his opponents. Ceci has a problem with fast decision making, when there is several things happening at the same time that makes him hesitant a fraction of a second, which is not allowed at that level. That's why teams strategy is often to send 2 forecheckers on him to put him under pressure. Opposedly, it's very dangerous doing that against Chabot or Karlsson because their decision making is elite and if you send 2 guys on them, it's probably an odd-man rush going the other way.

NHL D-men prospects really need both tools and toolbox . I mean you can get away if you are undersized by having top notch skating or hockey IQ but in general it's going to be rare.

In some cases, at lower levels when the pace is slowler, some players might not seem to have "toolbox" problems but it eventually becomes a problem as the game gets faster. That's why you could read that type of stuff on Ceci prior to the draft :

While Cody Ceci is great in many aspects of the game, in my opinion his biggest asset is his hockey IQ. He consistently makes good, smart plays with the puck. Regardless of how much time or space he has, he rarely makes a bad play with it

Or another one :

The former 16th overall selection of the Ottawa 67’s in the 2009 OHL Priority Selection Draft, Cody Ceci has shown improvements in all facets of his game. His best attribute has always been his elite hockey sense but, until this season, Ceci lacked the confidence to fully tap his on-ice ability to read and react with the utmost confidence
 
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BoardsofCanada

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Thomson over Heinola is a perfect example of drafting for tools instead of the toolbox

Same goes for Cowen over Ellis in 2009 and Ceci over Maatta in 2012.

Doesn't matter how big a D is, how well he skates and how hard he shoots the puck - if he can't think or move the puck he won't help you.

There wasn't one scout back in 2009 who would've taken the 5'9 Ellis over the 6'5 Cowen. Cowen looked like a sure fire two way monster on the blueline. Yes, in hindsight, Cowen did not have what it took and Ellis absolutely did. Unpredictability is the name of the game when it comes to drafting raw 18 year old hockey players.
 
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Ideally a D-man has both, the tools and toolbox because it's hard to succeed in the NHL nowadays without both. Not that long ago D-men were able to carve out NHL careers with just an "average" toolbox or a weakness like skating (ex : Hal Gill) just by being good positionally but now that the talent level in the NHL has increased so much, it gets harder and harder every year.

Teams scout other teams like crazy and have in-depth reports on every NHL player as they will want to exploit players weaknesses is part of the game plan. For example, every small weakness a goalie have (blocker, glove, lateral movement) is well known by his opponents. Ceci has a problem with fast decision making, when there is several things happening at the same time that makes him hesitant a fraction of a second, which is not allowed at that level. That's why teams strategy are often to send 2 forecheckers on him to put him under pressure. Opposedly, it's very dangerous doing against Chabot or Karlsson because their decision making is elite and if you send 2 guys on them, it's probably an odd-man rush going the other way.

NHL D-men prospects really need both tools and toolbox . I mean you can get away if you are undersized by having top notch skating or hockey IQ but in general it's going to be rare.

I concur with all of this.

In some cases, at lower levels when the pace is slowler, some players might not seem to have "toolbox" problems but it eventually becomes a problem as the game gets faster. That's why you could read that type of stuff on Ceci prior to the draft :

While Cody Ceci is great in many aspects of the game, in my opinion his biggest asset is his hockey IQ. He consistently makes good, smart plays with the puck. Regardless of how much time or space he has, he rarely makes a bad play with it

Or another one :

The former 16th overall selection of the Ottawa 67’s in the 2009 OHL Priority Selection Draft, Cody Ceci has shown improvements in all facets of his game. His best attribute has always been his elite hockey sense but, until this season, Ceci lacked the confidence to fully tap his on-ice ability to read and react with the utmost confidence

I almost never trust written summaries on players skills and attributes, unless they come from truly reputable sources (top scouting services).

Most of the time they are described in reference to their skills at the level they are playing at instead of projecting their skills at the NHL level.

I wasn't big into amateur scouting back in 2012 but if I had watched Ceci extensively in his draft year I'd like to think there were plenty of red flags about his IQ. That's not something that you can hide effectively, even at lower levels.
 

armani

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As a player who was always going to leave for the NHL when it resumed, Lassi wasn't getting prime opportunities in Ilves' line-up, so this move is perfect and permanent as he is already signed to ELC. He is such a project, but already looks to possess a heavy NHL shot from the blueline as a right handed defenceman. I have been/am preaching patience with this kid - it might take a minute but I have faith in Troy Mann to get the best out of him. Belleville will be a good team for prospect development once again, their on-ice performance dependent on how many key guys they lose to Ottawa/taxi squad.
 
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There wasn't one scout back in 2009 who would've taken the 5'9 Ellis over the 6'5 Cowen. Cowen looked like a sure fire two way monster on the blueline. Yes, in hindsight, Cowen did not have what it took and Ellis absolutely did. Unpredictability is the name of the game when it comes to drafting raw 18 year old hockey players.

Ellis: 89P in 57GP
Cowen: 21P in 48GP

More importantly than production, Ellis was one of the smarter D to come around in a long time, while Cowen was one of the lowest IQ players.

I can't tell you I would have had Ellis over Cowen in 2009, as I wasn't watching prospects much back then, but it should have been the consensus that Ellis was the better prospect.

The fact that it wasn't the case is why I put little faith into the consensus rankings of "professional" scouting staffs.
 
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FormentonTheFuture

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Ellis: 89P in 57GP
Cowen: 21P in 48GP

More importantly than production, Ellis was one of the smarter D to come around in a long time, while Cowen was one of the lowest IQ players.

I can't tell you I would have had Ellis over Cowen in 2009, as I wasn't watching prospects much back then, but it should have been the consensus that Ellis was the better prospect.

The fact that it wasn't the case is why I put little faith into the consensus rankings of "professional" scouting staffs.
Cowen was 7 on Bob McKenzie's rankings. He was the obvious pick ahead of Ellis. After Cowen was OEL and Kulikov for D in the top 10.
 

Bevans

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There wasn't one scout back in 2009 who would've taken the 5'9 Ellis over the 6'5 Cowen. Cowen looked like a sure fire two way monster on the blueline. Yes, in hindsight, Cowen did not have what it took and Ellis absolutely did. Unpredictability is the name of the game when it comes to drafting raw 18 year old hockey players.


Little different than unpredictability and hindsight bias. Scouts were fundamentally wrong about comparing large physical defencemen to small offensive defensemen at the time. They've since corrected their ways or been fired. The Makars, Quinns, and Drysdales are being drafted where they should be and the Hagues and Klevens have slid to their appropriate place at the top of the 2nd round.

Half point per game, man-child, CHL defencemen have been consistently unable to reach those lofty projections once expected of them.

Scouts are learning to resist the temptation of saying "Ellis is just Ellis, but Cowen could be anything, even a foot taller Ellis!"
 

BondraTime

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As a player who was always going to leave for the NHL when it resumed, Lassi wasn't getting prime opportunities in Ilves' line-up, so this move is perfect and permanent as he is already signed to ELC. He is such a project, but already looks to possess a heavy NHL shot from the blueline as a right handed defenceman. I have been/am preaching patience with this kid - it might take a minute but I have faith in Troy Mann to get the best out of him. Belleville will be a good team for prospect development once again, their on-ice performance dependent on how many key guys they lose to Ottawa/taxi squad.
Him leaving when the NHL resumed had nothing to do with him not getting minutes for them.

They lost their #1 forward and #1 goalie for the same reasons, and they still got the ice time they deserved.
 
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Cowen was 7 on Bob McKenzie's rankings. He was the obvious pick ahead of Ellis. After Cowen was OEL and Kulikov for D in the top 10.

The fact that he was ranked that high despite having zero hockey IQ, little talent and just coming off of a major injury, says all you need to know about how stupid "professional" NHL scouts can be when projecting players based strictly on tools.

It's how a normally excellent Sens scouting staff could make the mistake of taking Cowen, Ceci and Lassi in the 1st round. Got blinded by their size, skating and shooting, but forgot to account for skill and smarts - the two most important attributes a D needs to be successful at the NHL level.
 

FormentonTheFuture

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The fact that he was ranked that high despite having zero hockey IQ, little talent and was just coming off of a major injury, says all you need to know about how stupid "professional" NHL scouts can be when projecting players based strictly on tools.

It's how a normally excellent Sens scouting staff could make the mistake of taking Cowen, Ceci and Lassi in the 1st round. Got blinded by their size, skating and shooting, but forgot to account for skill and smarts - the two most important attributes a D needs to be successful at the NHL level.
The point was, it wasn't a "Sens move" to take Cowen. Everyone was high on him. Not every D picked is going to have high skill, especially if they are shut-down D-men. So you're wrong about the two most important attributes in my opinion.

Lassi might become good, he might not. He needs time to develop. The same stuff was said about Mika Z back in the day. All tools, no toolbox. (and before anyone replies, yes this was said, many times, and some thought he'd become like Mike Fisher at best)
 

Agent Zuuuub

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The point was, it wasn't a "Sens move" to take Cowen. Everyone was high on him. Not every D picked is going to have high skill, especially if they are shut-down D-men. So you're wrong about the two most important attributes in my opinion.

Lassi might become good, he might not. He needs time to develop. The same stuff was said about Mika Z back in the day. All tools, no toolbox. (and before anyone replies, yes this was said, many times, and some thought he'd become like Mike Fisher at best)

That's not true about Mika at all, he always showed he had good hockey iq.
 
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