Player Discussion Lane Hutson Part 2

[Estimated_Prophet]

I agree with you I actually mixed up the year for Norlinder. I still think he has more elite upside that Struble. He just will probably never hit it and has a way lower floor. I agree with you that Struble will be a safer bet to actually make it.

Norlinder sometimes shows his high end IQ and other times you wonder what the heck is going on in his head. I pray he figures it out. Tools are there.

Trudeau is one I see in the thrown into trades tier in the future.

Yeah, we seem to mostly be on the same page here.

I would point out however that Norlinder's biggest obstacle is low IQ. The odd play that he makes that looks intelligent is just a product of too many high risk/high reward plays that smart players know better than to try. Sometimes it works and looks great but far too often it does not and he just doesn't understand the game at a high enough level to accurately assess the risk/reward ratio. The fact that he sees opportunities that everyone else sees is not important or special but his ability to understand what is actually happening is very limited.

In order to make Norlinder effective you have to castrate his creativity as his brain can't distinguish creativity from opportunity and without that he is just another soft D

 

[danisonfire]

Yeah, we seem to mostly be on the same page here.

I would point out however that Norlinder's biggest obstacle is low IQ. The odd play that he makes that looks intelligent is just a product of too many high risk/high reward plays that smart players know better than to try. Sometimes it works and looks great but far too often it does not and he just doesn't understand the game at a high enough level to accurately assess the risk/reward ratio. The fact that he sees opportunities that everyone else sees is not important or special but his ability to understand what is actually happening is very limited.

In order to make Norlinder effective you have to castrate his creativity as his brain can't distinguish creativity from opportunity and without that he is just another soft D

The IQ issue since his draft year was high end in offensive zone (inconsistent) and space cadet in the defensive zone (brain on sleep mode / autopilot).

I personally don't know if he will put it all together but as of now it is a longer shot for the high end of his range.

If he can't figure it out like you said he will get left behind as a softer D.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

The IQ issue since his draft year was high end in offensive zone (inconsistent) and space cadet in the defensive zone (brain on sleep mode / autopilot).

I personally don't know if he will put it all together but as of now it is a longer shot for the high end of his range.

If he can't figure it out like you said he will get left behind as a softer D.

The bolded assessment was partially wrong which is common as most people conflate pretty plays with IQ when in fact it is incidental success without the context of failure rate. When I played I referred to teammates with low hockey IQ who occasionally made ridiculous plays as "skateboarders" as they have no fear and try things that they should not. On the occasions that it does work they are only encouraged to do it again even though the entire canvas of their work is detrimental to the team they are more interested in completing their cutesy tricks. I usually didn't call them this to their face but it was how I assessed and related them to their low IQ decisions.

Norlinder of course is not necessarily selfish and doesn't perfectly fit the above description but there is an element of that in his game that we all saw that was initially exciting until the full body of work was available for deeper evaluation and the IQ issue became very evident. It takes a higher IQ to play in the NHL than in the Euro leagues where there is plenty of time and space to make decisions and the mistakes that he was making before coming over were greatly magnified even in the AHL. Euro leagues are more conducive to strong skaters who can hang on to the puck whereas NA hockey requires quicker reads and a better understanding of the evolving environment on the ice from moment to moment.

As a caveat, I will offer that I may also be proven wrong as inexperience or a resistance to instruction can sometimes disguise itself as low IQ so it would be premature to entirely write him off. I see him as being a player who could be a very late bloomer who may start to figure out how to deploy his skill set within the framing of a team system in his later 20's but it is unlikely that he ever makes any sort of impact while with this organization. I see him ending up in Sweden where he may or may not figure things out.

It should also be pointed out that there is no difference between offensive IQ and defensive IQ as they are both predicated on recognizing/solving the same patterns/problem just from inverse perspectives. There are plenty of stay at home dmen who have higher hockey IQ's than perennial 30 goal scorers but they just don't have the physical tools/skills to capitalize on it. The same applies for high scoring forwards who may have higher IQ's than defensive dmen but are said to have "low defensive IQ" when often it is just a matter of effort or lack thereof.

Anyways....IQ is IQ but players demonstrate it differently depending on their limitations and willingness to compete at different ends of the ice.

 

[schwang26]

I'd put Struble in that group as well.

Everyone forgets Trudeau too who was excellent and probably lavals best D last year.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Everyone forgets Trudeau too who was excellent and probably lavals best D last year.

Agreed but much like career AHL forwards/NHL journeymen he may never be much more than the best dman on his AHL team. We are absolutely stacked at LD so he is likely too far down the list to ever contend for a significant role with the Habs. Even though he may currently be a better all around player than some of them his skill set will likely plateau early. He just doesn't have any special attributes like the rest of our LD's have.

I am definitely cheering for him and hope he is given an opportunity somewhere to prove himself.

 

[danisonfire]

The bolded assessment was partially wrong which is common as most people conflate pretty plays with IQ when in fact it is incidental success without the context of failure rate. When I played I referred to teammates with low hockey IQ who occasionally made ridiculous plays as "skateboarders" as they have no fear and try things that they should not. On the occasions that it does work they are only encouraged to do it again even though the entire canvas of their work is detrimental to the team they are more interested in completing their cutesy tricks. I usually didn't call them this to their face but it was how I assessed and related them to their low IQ decisions.

Norlinder of course is not necessarily selfish and doesn't perfectly fit the above description but there is an element of that in his game that we all saw that was initially exciting until the full body of work was available for deeper evaluation and the IQ issue became very evident. It takes a higher IQ to play in the NHL than in the Euro leagues where there is plenty of time and space to make decisions and the mistakes that he was making before coming over were greatly magnified even in the AHL. Euro leagues are more conducive to strong skaters who can hang on to the puck whereas NA hockey requires quicker reads and a better understanding of the evolving environment on the ice from moment to moment.

As a caveat, I will offer that I may also be proven wrong as inexperience or a resistance to instruction can sometimes disguise itself as low IQ so it would be premature to entirely write him off. I see him as being a player who could be a very late bloomer who may start to figure out how to deploy his skill set within the framing of a team system in his later 20's but it is unlikely that he ever makes any sort of impact while with this organization. I see him ending up in Sweden where he may or may not figure things out.

It should also be pointed out that there is no difference between offensive IQ and defensive IQ as they are both predicated on recognizing/solving the same patterns/problem just from inverse perspectives. There are plenty of stay at home dmen who have higher hockey IQ's than perennial 30 goal scorers but they just don't have the physical tools/skills to capitalize on it. The same applies for high scoring forwards who may have higher IQ's than defensive dmen but are said to have "low defensive IQ" when often it is just a matter of effort or lack thereof.

Anyways....IQ is IQ but players demonstrate it differently depending on their limitations and willingness to compete at different ends of the ice.

Your bold is pretty accurate for what I saw as well while playing. Head up vs head down was usually a strong indicator of this as well.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[SlafySZN]

 

[Sterling Archer]

Absolutely. It's just sometimes when I watch him he gets caught flat footed when skating backwards. His other areas of skating like you mention, also including his conditioning, are fantastic. That said, he'll get exposed if he doesn't keep working on skating backwards, it's too important, and he has, and he's improved a lot. It's just clearly a weakness. He reminds me of Mike Green.

Anyways, I agree with you, he's my favourite prospect, but I think he has a long way to go before he's penciled in as a top 4 dman but he's 100% on track to do it.

reminds me of when subban was a prospect,

Was just going to comment on the above post when I saw this one. PK should teach him how to skate backwards. Lol.

 

[Redux91]

I love not breaking it by 1 or 2 but by 8 f***ing points lmao
And not only that, his 48th point is the GWG Champ winning OT Goal lol

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

We have a well balanced D corps prospect/young player wise. A few who have high end offensive upside and a few with high end defence.

They’re all good individually but it’s the overall balance and make up of them which is exciting. We have it all back there.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Absolutely. It's just sometimes when I watch him he gets caught flat footed when skating backwards. His other areas of skating like you mention, also including his conditioning, are fantastic. That said, he'll get exposed if he doesn't keep working on skating backwards, it's too important, and he has, and he's improved a lot. It's just clearly a weakness. He reminds me of Mike Green.

Anyways, I agree with you, he's my favourite prospect, but I think he has a long way to go before he's penciled in as a top 4 dman but he's 100% on track to do it.

The problem is that he does not appear to have made any progress at all from the small sample that we saw this summer and this is not the only problem as he has below average straight ahead speed as well. He is not getting caught flat footed as you stated, he can not complete a quality back crossover, I have not seen him do it even once but I have seen him fall multiple times trying to do so.

I am hopeful that he will make the needed improvements but the sample that we saw in the summer was super disappointing.

 

[Scriptor]

The problem is that he does not appear to have made any progress at all from the small sample that we saw this summer and this is not the only problem as he has below average straight ahead speed as well.

I am hopeful that he will make the needed improvements but the sample that we saw in the summer was super disappointing.

I'm less concerned about Hutson's straight ahead speed because he can move the puck by passing it and, once the O-zone, he can shift opponents easily, plus he has a non-stop motor that will generally make opponents quit on following him.

There's just so many times you want to be publicly humiliated by biting on the shrimp's moves.

I'm more concerned about frustration from opponents and the odd dirty moves that may lead to injury for Hutson, slew-footing, double checks, hits to the head, etc.

However, so far in his career, Hutson has been hard to corner and hit. He plays with his head up and scans his environment continually. His hockey IQ helps him see what's coming and, regularly, what others don't dee that is coming.

Lets cheer for the kid to succeed and hope someone his weakness can at least become negligible (even if they don't become strengths for him) with the help of Adam Nicolas?

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I'm less concerned about Hutson's straight ahead speed because he can move the puck by passing it and, once the O-zone, he can shift opponents easily, plus he has a non-stop motor that will generally make opponents quit on following him.

There's just so many times you want to be publicly humiliated by biting on the shrimp's moves.

I'm more concerned about frustration from opponents and the odd dirty moves that may lead to injury for Hutson, slew-footing, double checks, hits to the head, etc.

However, so far in his career, Hutson has been hard to corner and hit. He plays with his head up and scans his environment continually. His hockey IQ helps him see what's coming and, regularly, what others don't dee that is coming.

Lets cheer for the kid to succeed and hope someone his weakness can at least become negligible (even if they don't become strengths for him) with the help of Adam Nicolas?

I am absolutely cheering for him to succeed and honest, objective observation that does not conform to blind tribal bias' should not be cited as evidence to the contrary.

Hutson is and always was a project and there is ample time to work on his flaws and it appears as though he will require significant time to do so. Fans attacking me for being honest and evidence based sound exactly like non-secular apologists who believe that what makes them feel better is more important than actual evidence and formulate their arguments from a foundation built entirely on their own bias and circular reasoning.

There is no denying that Lane has some truly special gifts and I am as excited as anyone to see him fix his flaws because as they currently stand will keep him out of the NHL. It is unfathomable to me that he has not learned how to backskate properly at his age and position but that is the case, It is also nearly as unfathomable that he doesn't address it and at least improve enough to be passable. He has already signalled that he was working on his "defensive" skating and I did notice him starting more from a back skating stance this summer however he consistently aborted this posture the second that a back crossover was required to gain speed.

Like I said, he is a project and he has plenty of time so I am not leaping to hyperbolic conclusion one way or the other.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I know some are worried about his shot but he only had 4 less goals than Caufield did in 5 more games as a freshman.

 

[Belial]

Hutson playing with Makar at the Biosteel camp.

 

[the valiant effort]

5’5” confirmed

 

[Belial]

5’5” confirmed

I hope it's just a bad angle!

He looks like a shrimp on that pic

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hutson playing with Makar at the Biosteel camp.

Neat pic, the best defenseman in the world and Cale Makar

 

[Belial]

Neat pic, the best defenseman in the world and Cale Makar

I hope Makar had the time and intelligence to be able to absorb some of that greatness!

 

[HuGort]

He has scary good skill but tiny. Surround him with big defense. Could be a great one.

 

[Balthazar]

I hope it's just a bad angle!

He looks like a shrimp on that pic

Makar is also bigger than most people think. He's close to 6' 200lb.

 

[Gustave]

I hope it's just a bad angle!

He looks like a shrimp on that pic

I think we all know he’s never going to be a big guy, nor medium.

That frame is just not conducive to anything resembling average to lower average height/weight in the NHL, especially a Dman.

I love his skill and what he’s doing right now. Maybe he’ll be the Johnny Hockey of Dmen.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Barron is there too.

Not sure what they do, shooting commercials I guess.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Makar is also bigger than most people think. He's close to 6' 200lb.

You have zero evidence of this......

Why do we have to make things up when the facts don't fit our narrative on this board. It happens so often and especially in this thread.