behemolari
worst collapse in nhl history
- Dec 1, 2011
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Laine goal-drought watch: 15 games (ends 02/22)
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Chimpradamus
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BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
kelsier
Registered User
- Aug 17, 2013
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Duly noted. Also I meant to add that Laine himself hasn't been exactly perfect either, but we're talking about a player that one day could be the face of the franchise so all the incidents/happenstances and even many occasions just leaving him out hanging for absurdly extended period of time, can easily make one baffled. Guess the old phrase could be applied here - "there's a method in madness".
Chuck Norris Trophy
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- Jan 22, 2015
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Threads like this are a perfect case study on why GM's are GM's and windbags on the Internet are not.
Here's how I see the timeline playing out:
- Chevy will sign Laine to a 6-7 year deal at ~$9M AAV if not more. This will be a well-timed savings thanks to the slump.
- Armchair GMs around here will still lose their minds screaming that he's overpaid after a down season and Chevy should be fired because Laine's 105 goals by age 20 don't count for anything apparently.
- Laine will then develop into a perennial 50 goal, 80pt+ guy because it turns out elite players don't peak at 19yrs old and there is a much bigger picture at play here than a few months of poor play.
- His contract will look like a steal in a couple of years and Chevy will look like a genius for signing it. None of the haters will resurface to eat their crow because that would mean admitting they're not as smart as a professional general manager.
Okay, now hit me with the ''no you're wrong Laine looked like crap for a couple of months so his career is 100% over'' posts. I'm ready
I'm only quoting this so we can see in the future about this. Because I believe you are absolutely wrong. He has been completely figured out and the things he needs change are so drastic and he is missing the basics on these completely, best example is skating. He can come back partly, sure. I'm sure about this, maybe wrong, maybe not.
I can't remember the last time such a high profile player has done so poorly for such a long stretch - but at the same time i can't believe how many people on HF have completely given up on him.
To me his value as a player/trade asset is still ridiculously high. It might take till the offseason for him to recover, but he will. He's still young.
To me his value as a player/trade asset is still ridiculously high. It might take till the offseason for him to recover, but he will. He's still young.
The flip side to that coin is ..its possible his past performance was a flash in the pan and this is what he is now.
Sure it's unlikely but its still possible.
His past performances were a flash in the pan? Huh? We are talking about years of excellence as a junior player, and being great in the NHL since he entered it. Flash in the pan can be one good year. It's possible that Laine has regressed, or is having some sort of a physical / mental issue right now. But to call his entire career "flash in the pan" is beyond ridiculous.
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
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Absolut already said it, but.. no.
I think he’s in his own head but the other real fear is that teams have figured him out and he doesn’t (yet) have the tools to get around that.
It's certainly not likely but weird things happen.
Look at a guy like Marchand. A roughly ~50pt player for about 5 years in the league. Then he jumps to 60, then 85, and is now on pace for 100+pts. Sure, he's in a great situation now with Bergy and Pasta but still.
Cheechoo is another odd example. Busts into the league, averaging 40+ goals a season for his first 3 seasons ... 2 years later he was out of the league. Sure, a few injuries hit him that's a pretty ridiculous drop off.
There have certainly been players who had amazing junior careers then came to the NHL and fizzled out. Consider any highly touted 1st rounder who busted.
Look, I don't honestly think Laine is done as a player. I think he is the real deal. I agree ... he is in a major funk and he's "holding the stick too tight," as it were. BUT, there always remains the possibility (as with many players) that he will fizzle out. Denying it is fine but it doesn't make it any less true.
Look at a guy like Marchand. A roughly ~50pt player for about 5 years in the league. Then he jumps to 60, then 85, and is now on pace for 100+pts. Sure, he's in a great situation now with Bergy and Pasta but still.
Cheechoo is another odd example. Busts into the league, averaging 40+ goals a season for his first 3 seasons ... 2 years later he was out of the league. Sure, a few injuries hit him that's a pretty ridiculous drop off.
There have certainly been players who had amazing junior careers then came to the NHL and fizzled out. Consider any highly touted 1st rounder who busted.
Look, I don't honestly think Laine is done as a player. I think he is the real deal. I agree ... he is in a major funk and he's "holding the stick too tight," as it were. BUT, there always remains the possibility (as with many players) that he will fizzle out. Denying it is fine but it doesn't make it any less true.
Laine looks like he needs an ugly goal to get things going. He needs to bang in a rebound or get a flukey one and the flood gates will open. He's gonna get his confidence back, Jets fans just need to hope its back by early April
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
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My example is Tyler Myers- dude entered with all the confidence in the world, was in the right situation, and looked like he'd grow into Chara 2.0. Instead teams figured him out, he got put in a worse position, he lost confidence, and now he's a middling defenseman.
I see more Myers than (delayed) sophomore slump when it comes to Laine. Just a little improvement in his overall game would open up his scoring, but instead the Jets seem to be ignoring the issue.
Exactly. I do believe Laine has the tools to figure it out. Hopefully the Jets can help him.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
The universe is balancing itself from the Finnish Five onslaught.
ChurchOfMatthews
Goldmember
Okay, now hit me with the ''no you're wrong Laine looked like crap for a couple of months so his career is 100% over'' posts. I'm ready
Most negativity is just competitive ball-busting against Jet fans. What comes around goes around
We all know he'll be fine in the near future but that doesn't mean people aren't going to have some fun with it.
I dunno, I'm not saying this is impossible, but it seems so stupid and unlike how teams usually operate I find a bit hard to believe. Playing devil's advocate, I can understand how some GM/coach duo from hell could go "hmm, this guy has awesome shot and offensive instincts but he has some weaknesses in his overall game, let's force him to play to his weaknesses and maybe we can have him locked down for cheap and then we'll start using him to his strengths" - but that would be completely crazy. I can think a dozen more likely explanations, like Maurice simply not quite understanding what he has in Laine and how to make best use of it or Laine playing too much Fortnite with Scheifele's GF and Mark getting upset because he wanted to have some quality time watching old hockey videos or maybe Chevy had a vision in his dreams Laine+Little won them the cup and he's pressing Maurice hard to keep them together or whatever.
In my opinion Laine is quite a special talent - obviously his shot is also a lot of work and training, but I'm not talking about his shot alone - when he is "ON", I have never seen a player make goal scoring look so easy, or outperform most people's eye tests or his expected level of play so consistently. His hot streaks are something else, and up to this point, while he has gone cold before his hot streaks have always outshone the cold ones. But his effort side of the game is very poor, I'm not saying he doesn't try or doesn't put in the 'effort', just that his game has always been based on effectiveness and it has never been about "hard work" on the ice. Heck, when he is on, nothing ever looks hard for him. To me he seems more about being in the "flow" or whatever you wanna call it than perhaps any other player I'm watched play, both within a game and on a larger scale as well as in confidence and hot streaks. This a very important aspect of "talent" which can help a person tremondously to perform at their best when the stakes are the highest (sports competition, musician on stage, brain surgery, whatever where you have to perform in the key moment) - but it's also a bit evasive because you can't really "work" yourself into it - it's more about letting go and relaxing while also getting hyper focused and confident in your goals.
I think Laine is getting exposed hard atm, but also he is in a position which doesn't support his strengths at all. I think with more maturity and better understanding of himself he can learn to better cope with this situations when it's not working out for him, and how to wake up the positive cycle for him. Obviously having higher level physical strength and athletism will also help with that. But nothing is a given, he's only 20, maybe this is the year he realizes that despite being very good at hockey, it's not really his heart's calling to play it. I think it's more likely he's just a very frustrated young man at the moment, I believe first of all with himself but perhaps with some others too.
What I personally simply don't understand is how his resume of playing in the 1st line during his rookie season + his last season in the 2nd line and even November this season doesn't earn him even a decent look in the 1st. If it was me and I was wanting to be the best in the world in my craft, I would be frustrated having to settle with 2nd line minutes instead of being on the ice for all the big moments in a game. But I'm not Laine.
The young defenceman's who end up nominated for the Calder historically have difficulty matching their rookie seasons until their mid-20's. A lot of that is defensive production outside of a few very elite players (Karlsson, and Burns) is so heavily dependent on who they are transitioning the puck up to. Myers is notable in that he never matched it. But, look at some of the other highly successful rookie D-man point wise. Werenski got 47 as a rookie, 37 in year two, and is on pace for 44 this year. Gostisbehere got 46 points in 64 games, he followed that up with 39 in 76, had a great year last year got 65 in 78, and is on pace for 37 points. Keep in mind, Gostisbehere was an older player who had his great year 3 year at 24. Ekblad got 39 as a rookie, 36 in year two, 21 in year 3 (68 games), 38 points last year, and is on pace on 31 this year. Even close calls like Carlson and Krug don't tend to top their production until there mid-20's. Now, there will be exceptions over time (potentially Dahlin who is likely nominated this year), but it is more common than uncommon for high-producing rookie D-man.
This trend doesn't really exist for young offensive forwards. Especially ones who enter the league as teenagers. Most tend to top their rookie season fairly early on and produce more (at least on ppg basis).
Channelcat
Unhinged user
Myers is a great example of how this scenario can play out. I don't even think it was a matter of being figured out. His development just flattened out. This is what we see with Laine. He has not improved in 3 years, maybe even longer.
tntkid
Fire Maurice & Chevy
Threads like this are a perfect case study on why GM's are GM's and windbags on the Internet are not.
Here's how I see the timeline playing out:
- Chevy will sign Laine to a 6-7 year deal at ~$9M AAV if not more. This will be a well-timed savings thanks to the slump.
- Armchair GMs around here will still lose their minds screaming that he's overpaid after a down season and Chevy should be fired because Laine's 105 goals by age 20 don't count for anything apparently.
- Laine will then develop into a perennial 50 goal, 80pt+ guy because it turns out elite players don't peak at 19yrs old and there is a much bigger picture at play here than a few months of poor play.
- His contract will look like a steal in a couple of years and Chevy will look like a genius for signing it. None of the haters will resurface to eat their crow because that would mean admitting they're not as smart as a professional general manager.
Okay, now hit me with the ''no you're wrong Laine looked like crap for a couple of months so his career is 100% over'' posts. I'm ready
Laine played so many video games in 2018/19 that his hockey career is all over.
lol
hockeeyyy
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
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Well, that’s one reason why I feel you’ve become a pretty good voice in these types of threads because it’s less about putting the blame on others and placing it squarely on Laine’s shoulders.
angusyoung
Tiki-Taki
bottomofthefoodchain
Registered User
Laine played so many video games in 2018/19 that his hockey career is all over.
lol
People joke but it is entirely possible he is in a bad place mentally right now and is playing a bunch of computer games to take his mind off of it
Off topic, but seeing Laine struggle really tells you how rare of a player Ovechkin is. His consistent excellence as a goal scorer is amazing. He doesn't get enough credit for his mental strength and ability to adjust. I wish he could informally mentor Laine in some way. Everything was so easy for the kid before, he doesn't seem equipped to handle failure. The problem is mental. With some sort of help, he can learn to get over things and adjust his game / mindset when needed.
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libertarian
Registered User
As a Jet fan I'd have no issue with a offer sheet on Laine since the Jets are proving they can win without virtually any Laine point production. I'd take the 1st/2nd round picks which would guarantee the Jets keep the pipeline full and be a competitive contender for many years to come.
Right now I would rather see Laine bridged and KC get a 6+ year deal.
When Laine doesn't score he is the worst player on the team.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
It requires some effort though to get an ugly goal, unless he expects it to fall in his lap with his current play. He looks like he's a homeless guy waiting in the queue for the soup kitchen, not an NHL pro chasing a rebound goal or winning a puck battle.
Either he's hampered by some really nagging injury (if then, why even play him at this point?) or he has some serious mental issues with confidence/ childish arrogance/ deer in the headlights never faced adversity before/ whatever. I've never seen a "star player" be so awful even in the effort to get back on track and battle even harder to get back there. Laine does the opposite. Most players in a slump battle too hard and grip the stick too tight, Laine just glides around out there, waiting to be fed the puck as usual.
Laine looks like Kovalev when he played in a game where he mailed it in. without the puck skills. The funny thing is, Laine isn't that small, he's quite big, but he plays like he's 5'0".
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