TSN: Laine cleared to return from Player Assistance Program

[Marioesque]

Don't kill me, you brought it up. But it's not right that Laine shrunk down to 5'0 there.

I agree. That's not right. If it was then Andersson's jump would have went well over his head.

If Laine was doing the wrong thing there, they probably should have given that 4 game suspension to him instead.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I agree. That's not right. If it was then Andersson's jump would have went well over his head.

If Laine was doing the wrong thing there, they probably should have given that 4 game suspension to him instead.

That's not how it works. Ultimately Andersson is responsible for the hit, and was suspended for it. At the same time, Laine's position made himself vulnerable and prey to a predator like Andersson. It in no way excuses Andersson but putting oneself in that position is a bad habit in hockey.

 

[Marioesque]

putting oneself in that position is a bad habit in hockey.

What position? Andersson had to jump and extend an elbow to reach his head in that "position".

"Don't take strides out of your D zone" is the wrong position he was in?

So Eric Lindros was a bad hockey player because he lacked awareness. I got it now. Sorry, nobody sent me the unwritten rule book. Someone should give it to Laine.

 

[majormajor]

I agree. That's not right. If it was then Andersson's jump would have went well over his head.

If Laine was doing the wrong thing there, they probably should have given that 4 game suspension to him instead.

That's just a dumb way to argue, as if you can't have Andersson doing a dirty hit and Laine putting himself in a bad position at the same time. Obviously they're not mutually exclusive.

And yes, Laine is about five feet tall at the time of impact. Andersson is half a foot shorter and doesn't jump high enough to elbow a man taller than him. Andersson's skates are not more than few inches off the ice.

 

[Marioesque]

That's just a dumb way to argue, as if you can't have Andersson doing a dirty hit and Laine putting himself in a bad position at the same time. Obviously they're not mutually exclusive.

And yes, Laine is about five feet tall at the time of impact. Andersson is half a foot shorter and doesn't jump high enough to elbow a man taller than him. Andersson's skates are not more than few inches off the ice.

Andersson is 6'1 and had to jump. If Laine was 5 feet tall in that situation, why did a 6'1 player need to leave his feet to reach his head?

 

[Cowumbus]

Andersson is 6'1 and had to jump. If Laine was 5 feet tall in that situation, why did a 6'1 player need to leave his feet to reach his head?

I don’t think your claims are very objective at all, so how about this? If he had his head up and wasn’t trying to score a garbage time empty net goal, maybe the outcome is different. He doesn’t scan the ice before he gets the puck like Gaudreau/Johnson do. Is not scanning + looking down at the puck + ducking down + trying to score an ENG with no time left not “putting yourself in bad position” or ??

The injury vs the Leafs seems like he was just too light on his skates for a big guy tbh.

 

[Schemp]

I don't see a trade to be had for Laine. Teams have pretty much locked up their rosters. Those teams with capspace are few and far between. Most won't take a risk on an oft-injured 8.7M malcontent and give up any significant value (e.g. 1st). I think Laine will have no choice but to accept that he will be a Blue Jacket next season. If he produces, then there an opportunity at TDL to be traded.

Utah could take the cap space, send waiver exempt Doan to the minors and still not LTIR Weber. The main reason they don't is that But and Iginla as well as Doan will be fighting for a roster spot the following season. Still I see a possibility for a trade.

 

[Marioesque]

I don’t think your claims are very objective at al

6'1 > 5

I think that's pretty objective and generally understood basics.

I don't think it's objective to state that if a 6'1 player jumps and extends an elbow up, they would hit a 5 foot player in the head with it.

So I think the 5 feet was not objective. Math.

 

[Marioesque]

If he had his head up and wasn’t trying to score a garbage time empty net goal, maybe the outcome is different. He doesn’t scan the ice before he gets the puck like Gaudreau/Johnson do. Is not scanning + looking down at the puck + ducking down + trying to score an ENG with no time left not “putting yourself in bad position” or ??

Now this sounds like the classic "if she didn't want that kind of attention why was she wearing those clothes".

 

[domi28]

So this is just last season

Here the whatever reason is Rasmus Andersson going out of his way to hit Laine with 2 seconds on the clock, was suspended for 4 games so I guess NHL didn't agree that he should have somehow been able to avoid that hit.



And here the whatever reason is Lagesson kicking Laines feet off causing him to crash to boards, then Lagesson landing on him uncontrollably.



There's reasons to it that are out of the control of the player getting injured. Avoiding these injuries were in the control of Andersson and Lagesson. Not because Laine isn't fit.

I never said he wasn't fit. Much like you are accusing posters of having an anti-Laine agenda you seem to have a pro-Laine agenda that won't acknowledge any weaknesses in his game. The Andersson hit was a bush league play and Andersson should have gotten a longer suspension but the Lagesson play looks to be more an example of Laine lacking awareness than just having bad luck.

This is a pretty good read that breaks down Laine's strengths and weaknesses:

Examining Patrik Laine's Struggles

Reviewing his play since return from injury

pocketcbj.substack.com

 

[majormajor]

Now this sounds like the classic "if she didn't want that kind of attention why was she wearing those clothes".

Now you're bringing in a rights-based type of argument - that women can wear what they want free of harassment - but we don't have a right to not be injured in hockey and in any case no one in this case is saying Laine deserves to be injured.

The only thing that matters in this question is whether Laine is making himself more vulnerable to injury with his posture on the ice. And I think this is a clear example of that. He looks 5'0, if not shorter in that video.

 

[majormajor]

This is a pretty good read that breaks down Laine's strengths and weaknesses:

Examining Patrik Laine's Struggles

Reviewing his play since return from injury

pocketcbj.substack.com

That read is explicitly about how Laine was playing immediately after his concussion last Fall, not meant to be a general discussion of his strengths and weaknesses as a player. His bad habits were on full after the concussion, I think those are all fair to critique. But the data is particular to last Fall.

 

[Marioesque]

Now you're bringing in a rights-based type of argument - that women can wear what they want free of harassment - but we don't have a right to not be injured in hockey and in any case no one in this case is saying Laine deserves to be injured.

The only thing that matters in this question is whether Laine is making himself more vulnerable to injury with his posture on the ice. And I think this is a clear example of that. He looks 5'0, if not shorter in that video.

Umm yeah they do have that. There's rules, that's why the suspension.

Steve Moore didn't expect to be chopped on the head with a stick and Todd Bertuzzi got banned for it. Hockey players should not be playing with the fear that at any moment someone can chop you in the head illegally or jump and elbow you in the face . That's why those are punished.

Drop the "looked 5 ft" when a 6'1 player has to jump to reach.

That's totally "she was in the wrong place at the wrong time looking like an easy target, boys will be boys" argument

 

[VT]

That read is explicitly about how Laine was playing immediately after his concussion last Fall, not meant to be a general discussion of his strengths and weaknesses as a player. His bad habits were on full after the concussion, I think those are all fair to critique. But the data is particular to last Fall.

1. Laine, though looking at a teammate, wants to get the puck into the offensive zone himself. As if to prove he can do more than just shoot. Although, if you've noticed, he's started pass in the last games.

2. You know, sometimes Patrik carries the puck excellent, once after one such game against the Bolts, Torts and Domi praised him to the heavens that he would have fallen even if a man with tuberculosis was blowing him. It would be interesting if some expert would explain his past trainings if they were good for him. Now, what I see from the videos and also from the new coach's explanation, his training is focused on the core of the body, stability. So we will see.

 

[majormajor]

Umm yeah they do have that. There's rules, that's why the suspension.

Steve Moore didn't expect to be chopped on the head with a stick and Todd Bertuzzi got banned for it. Hockey players should not be playing with the fear that at any moment someone can chop you in the head illegally or jump and elbow you in the face . That's why those are punished.

Drop the "looked 5 ft" when a 6'1 player has to jump to reach.

Freeze it the microsecond before Andersson's skates leave the ice. About 3.8 seconds into the clip.



Laine is already falling so low that Andersson can hit him in the head without jumping.

That's totally "she was in the wrong place at the wrong time looking like an easy target, boys will be boys" argument

Imagine how this plays to GMs thinking about acquiring him. Since it is morally wrong for anyone to injure Laine, and it is that player's fault not Laine's, then you just don't consider whether Laine has more of a propensity to get injured. He's only played half the games he was supposed to in the last four years but that would be wrong of you to think about it.

1. Laine, though looking at a teammate, wants to get the puck into the offensive zone himself. As if to prove he can do more than just shoot. Although, if you've noticed, he's started pass in the last games.

2. You know, sometimes Patrik carries the puck excellent, once after one such game against the Bolts, Torts and Domi praised him to the heavens that he would have fallen even if a man with tuberculosis was blowing him. It would be interesting if some expert would explain his past trainings if they were good for him. Now, what I see from the videos and also from the new coach's explanation, his training is focused on the core of the body, stability. So we will see.

He's been doing core focused training for several offseasons now, that's what he did with Barkov each offseason. This year might be different in some ways but core and stability is going to keep being the focus.

On point one, that is the biggest problem in Laine's game, that he wants to carry the puck so much. He tries to play like Barkov and ends up leaning into his weaknesses (puckhandling) and leaving his strengths behind (shooting).

 

[Marioesque]

Laine is already falling so low that Andersson can hit him in the head without jumping.

Yeha he's taking a shot at the empty net, Andersson has no valid play there other than trying to block the shot. The game is over at this point. That is why there was a suspension.

I'm not discussing this ridiculous topic any further. The fault is 100% on Andersson. If that's not clear to everyone, get your head checked. And not by Andersson.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Stats clearly show he makes his linemates better. He also very much drives any line he is on, because he's the best player in those lines and touches the puck the most and creates the most offense.

I'm sure you'll now offer some personal definition of a line driver to counter what the statistics and eye test show.

This is pure fantasy.

 

[Marioesque]

This is pure fantasy.

No it's just stats. These have been gone over and over on CBJ boards. Laine makes his linemates better.

It just doesn't align with your fantasy so you're opposed it.

 

[majormajor]

This is pure fantasy.

It's really not, not when Laine is healthy.

The argument is of course tendentious because we've seen healthy Laine about 100 games in his Jackets tenure. But he was the best player in that time and played the best hockey of his career.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Saad+ for Laine who says no?

 

[VT]

Freeze it the microsecond before Andersson's skates leave the ice. About 3.8 seconds into the clip.



Laine is already falling so low that Andersson can hit him in the head without jumping.



Imagine how this plays to GMs thinking about acquiring him. Since it is morally wrong for anyone to injure Laine, and it is that player's fault not Laine's, then you just don't consider whether Laine has more of a propensity to get injured. He's only played half the games he was supposed to in the last four years but that would be wrong of you to think about it.



He's been doing core focused training for several offseasons now, that's what he did with Barkov each offseason. This year might be different in some ways but core and stability is going to keep being the focus.

On point one, that is the biggest problem in Laine's game, that he wants to carry the puck so much. He tries to play like Barkov and ends up leaning into his weaknesses (puckhandling) and leaving his strengths behind (shooting).

1. The question is in the training exercises, btw Barkov is also often injured. Btw, he mentioned that he's going to have a conditioning coach now. It seems to me that he didn't have one before.

2. The puck handling is not bad. Here you have to look at when it wasn't ideal. If after injuries, it's understandable, when he was in form, everything was fine. Of course with his stick he can't have it excellent. Now it's time for him to start using the stick.

 

[majormajor]

2. The puck handling is not bad. Here you have to look at when it wasn't ideal. If after injuries, it's understandable, when he was in form, everything was fine. Of course with his stick he can't have it excellent. Now it's time for him to start using the stick.

If you want to be the primary puck carrier and also a guy who does carry-ins over dump-ins every time, you need to be an exceptional puck handler, like well above average. I think Laine at his best is closer to an average puck handler.

 

[Marioesque]

If you want to be the primary puck carrier and also a guy who does carry-ins over dump-ins every time, you need to be an exceptional puck handler, like well above average. I think Laine at his best is closer to an average puck handler.

I don't know what role Laine wants, but the puck carrying options are thin for Jackets and it might just fall on him?

I expected Johnny to be the primary puck carrier and that to free up more shots for Laine, but Johnny is more of a risk with the puck coming out of D zone than Laine is and has caused very costly blunders either carrying or passing to neutral zone. Werenski is not bad at it but he's a D and should not be doing it more than he already is. Mo Fantilli should help in this regard but he's 19.

 

[VT]

If you want to be the primary puck carrier and also a guy who does carry-ins over dump-ins every time, you need to be an exceptional puck handler, like well above average. I think Laine at his best is closer to an average puck handler.

You're exaggerating.

 

[majormajor]

I don't know what role Laine wants, but the puck carrying options are thin for Jackets and it might just fall on him?

I expected Johnny to be the primary puck carrier and that to free up more shots for Laine, but Johnny is more of a risk with the puck coming out of D zone than Laine is and has caused very costly blunders either carrying or passing to neutral zone.

It's the other way around, Gaudreau is still better at it than Laine, Patty just prefers to have it.