Speculation: LA Kings with heavy interest in Landeskog

[Sleeping Dog]

Nobody is going to pay for players with picks with an expansion draft looming.

Teams always look to get depth for the playoffs. There will be these types of deals at TDL - but the draft picks might be lower that previous years because of expansion draft.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

so are we down for

Landeskog + Iginla

for

Muzzin + King + prospect/pick (i.e. +/- Brodzinski/3rd rd)

?

Landeskog - Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Gaborik - Dowd - Iginla
Clifford - Shore - Nolan
Setoguchi
Andreoff

and then maybe flip something minor for a #5 or #6 D if there's a lack of trust in Greene/Gravel/Gilbert?

 

[Martyros]

so are we down for

Landeskog + Iginla

for

Muzzin + King + prospect/pick (i.e. +/- Brodzinski/3rd rd)

?

Landeskog - Kopitar - Brown
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
Gaborik - Dowd - Iginla
Clifford - Shore - Nolan
Setoguchi
Andreoff

and then maybe flip something minor for a #5 or #6 D if there's a lack of trust in Greene/Gravel/Gilbert?

That package won't even get Landeskog alone, unless that pick is a 1st AND the prospect is a top tier one.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Lombardi did some interesting things during the 2013 and 2014 seasons. Even though the Kings were contenders he dealt dead weight or loyal soldiers from the 2012 Cup team to other teams for picks and to give those players a shot.

Guys like Greene, Gilbert, Clifford, Brown, Gaborik, King should be all made available. Losing these guys and replacing some with other players via trades or players from Ontario wouldn't hurt at this point.

DL moved Drewiske, Bernier, Carillo, Loktionov, Gagne, and Westgarth for picks even when we were contending.

Drewiske, Loktionov, and Westgarth aren't Clifford, Greene, or King. The 3 guys currently here are playing regularly. They don't need to be given a shot to play.

Why even include Brown and Gaborik? They should be made available for what? Nobody needs them for anything. The Kings are stuck with them until they retire or their contracts end.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

That package won't even get Landeskog alone, unless that pick is a 1st AND the prospect is a top tier one.

you are under estimating Muzzin a lot Top pairing defense man on a great contract like muzzin is worth Landeskog straight up imo Lets not forget Landeskogs points are declining and hes not exactly signed cheap Its a fair on for one imo

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

you are under estimating Muzzin a lot Top pairing defense man on a great contract like muzzin is worth Landeskog straight up imo Lets not forget Landeskogs points are declining and hes not exactly signed cheap Its a fair on for one imo

Realistically Muzzin is worth more than Landeskog. That's not how it works though. Colorado has no pressure to trade Landeskog and it's a bidding war. Who can offer them the best package. Muzzin right now is > Trouba but if Trouba and Muzzin were both offered alone, Colorado easily takes Trouba.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Are we the only team with not 1, but 2 totally horrible and unmovable contracts?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Are we the only team with not 1, but 2 totally horrible and unmovable contracts?

I could pick a team at random and find terrible unmoveable contracts.

Just picked Detroit at random. Kronwall, Ericcson, Jimmy Howard. Washington--ehhh I guess just Orpik. TB--Callahan and just bought out Carle recently.

Seriously lacking around-the-league perspective here from thread to thread, it's getting tiring. Why do people want to try to paint this as some inept organization without even trying ot see what's going on around the NHL?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kronwall makes 4.75 mill until 2018-2019.
Ericsson makes 4.25 until 2019-2020. If the waives his NTC, I would say he is moveable.
Jimmy Howard is likely movable or will get taken by Vegas and makes 5.2 until 2018-2019.

Brown makes 5.875 until 2021-2022.
Gaborik makes 4.875 until 2020-2021.

See the difference? I would rather have those two D than these two shotty forwards. Not to mention Gaborik is already 34 and a history of injuries.

No one said this organization is inept, we are just arguing the Lombardi and co. have made some poor decisions over the past few years that have taken a serious toll. This has included trading picks and giving out long term contracts to older players. We are just posters and fans, but many of us are smart enough to know not to give Gaborik a 7 year deal? Or Brown an extension that long? Come on. Or not buy out MR? And trading for Sekera and Lucic?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kronwall makes 4.75 mill until 2018-2019.
Ericsson makes 4.25 until 2019-2020. If the waives his NTC, I would say he is moveable.
Jimmy Howard is likely movable or will get taken by Vegas and makes 5.2 until 2018-2019.

Brown makes 5.875 until 2021-2022.
Gaborik makes 4.875 until 2020-2021.

See the difference? I would rather have those two D than these two shotty forwards. Not to mention Gaborik is already 34 and a history of injuries.

No one said this organization is inept, we are just arguing the Lombardi and co. have made some poor decisions over the past few years that have taken a serious toll. This has included trading picks and giving out long term contracts to older players. We are just posters and fans, but many of us are smart enough to know not to give Gaborik a 7 year deal? Or Brown an extension that long? Come on. Or not buy out MR? And trading for Sekera and Lucic?

You asked if other teams have terrible contracts.

Prior to Howard having a small resurgence this year, Wings fans were trying to find all sorts of trade/buyout scenarios and couldn't pay anyone to take him (sound familiar?). Ericsson is complete garbage. I'd argue Kronwall has some value on name alone, but feel free to ask Wings fans how they feel about all of those guys. They have an entire d-pairing worth of garbage they can't do anything about, I'd suggest that's much worse than having underperforming forwards.

Edit: Re: how many of us are smart enough to know not to do those deals....here's the Brown thread. You'll notice many--including those who are currently hypercritical of him at this time--piling on about how happy they are about it: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1471401&highlight=dustin+brown

Here's the Gaborik equivalent: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1692759&highlight=gaborik

 

[KingsFan7824]

I could pick a team at random and find terrible unmoveable contracts.

Just picked Detroit at random. Kronwall, Ericcson, Jimmy Howard. Washington--ehhh I guess just Orpik. TB--Callahan and just bought out Carle recently.

Seriously lacking around-the-league perspective here from thread to thread, it's getting tiring. Why do people want to try to paint this as some inept organization without even trying ot see what's going on around the NHL?

There are plenty of bad contracts floating around the league, but Lombardi couldn't trade Brown or Gaborik for any of them. Or, maybe he could, but if any contracts are equally as bad in terms of money, term, and production, why would either side really bother? Both teams would just move their problem from one area to another.

Ranger fans can't stand Girardi, but would they trade him for Brown or Gaborik? Gaborik is signed for one more season, and Brown two more. Lombardi would have to add in that deal. Or at least, I would make Lombardi add if I was the Rangers GM.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There are plenty of bad contracts floating around the league, but Lombardi couldn't trade Brown or Gaborik for any of them. Or, maybe he could, but if any contracts are equally as bad in terms of money, term, and production, why would either side really bother? Both teams would just move their problem from one area to another.

Ranger fans can't stand Girardi, but would they trade him for Brown or Gaborik? Gaborik is signed for one more season, and Brown two more. Lombardi would have to add in that deal. Or at least, I would make Lombardi add if I was the Rangers GM.

That's exactly my point really. Almost every team--at least every competitive team--has some form of unmoveable contract. We're at least getting some value out of ours and they aren't tanking us on defense like Girardi or in goal...and we aren't paying them to not play like Clarkson.

This is all just in response to Johnny wondering aloud if other teams have the same issue which, as the answer always is, they do. I know we're hyperfocused on our team here which makes it sometimes hard to see the big picture.

Hell, many of those other bad contracts have NMCs/NTCs. Only a couple of our guys do.

 

[KingsFan7824]

They have an entire d-pairing worth of garbage they can't do anything about, I'd suggest that's much worse than having underperforming forwards.

It also depends on the team you're talking about. The Kings are still seen, or thought of in some way, as a potential Cup contender. Detroit, how many of their fans just want the franchise to finally move on and rebuild? If the Wings have a couple guys making too much money for a few years while the team sucks, that can only help them be bad. The Kings are trying to win, and underperforming forwards taking up $11m in cap space can only hurt them.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's exactly my point really. Almost every team--at least every competitive team--has some form of unmoveable contract. We're at least getting some value out of ours and they aren't tanking us on defense like Girardi or in goal...and we aren't paying them to not play like Clarkson.

This is all just in response to Johnny wondering aloud if other teams have the same issue which, as the answer always is, they do. I know we're hyperfocused on our team here which makes it sometimes hard to see the big picture.

Hell, many of those other bad contracts have NMCs/NTCs. Only a couple of our guys do.

For sure. The Kings are hardly alone when it comes to this. It's just that staying in that true contender race becomes more difficult with every underperforming player. Say Brown is worth 50% of his contract, that's a dead $3m, and they need a young guy to produce. If Gaborik is worth 50% of his deal, that's another dead $2.5m, and they need yet another young guy to produce. Or, a cheaper free agent that has a career year. Something like that.

I don't blame Lombardi for it though. He signed Brown a year too early, but he wasn't a 10 goal scorer when he did it. I don't know any GM that would've let Gaborik walk after his 2014 playoff, and while a shorter deal would've been great, that's going to be a higher cap hit, which is going to send someone else out.

As they say, tougher trying to stay on top than trying to get to the top.

 

[Trolfoli]

Are we the only team with not 1, but 2 totally horrible and unmovable contracts?

Ladd & Boychuck.


Edit: Lombardi hasn't made a trade yet? I say fire his ass if he doesn't get it done by 5pm today. Eastern!

 

[Quattro]

Edit: Re: how many of us are smart enough to know not to do those deals....here's the Brown thread. You'll notice many--including those who are currently hypercritical of him at this time--piling on about how happy they are about it: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1471401&highlight=dustin+brown

Here's the Gaborik equivalent: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1692759&highlight=gaborik

there is some gold in those threads. I know EXACTLY which posts and posters you are referring too

 

[fsanford]

there is some gold in those threads. I know EXACTLY which posts and posters you are referring too

Some folks have pulled a complete 180 on both deals. I am probably one of them.

Hey fans can afford to make mistakes, GM's no so much.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Some folks have pulled a complete 180 on both deals. I am probably one of them.

Hey fans can afford to make mistakes, GM's no so much.

I'm 100% fine with fans 180ing since we're not getting paid. I'm not okay with fans 180ing and saying "I knew it all along, told you it was a bad contract."

No one in the league knew the Brown contract would be so far away from production value so soon, even if they knew he'd physically wear down. No one in their right mind would let Gaborik walk after 2014. Hell some of the folks who were trying to trade Carter last year are signing his praises now--which is good--but now trying to dump Kopitar.

We knew what was coming after the Cups, I just don't understand how retroactive bashing is any sort of consolation, and my biggest pet peeve as a mod and as a poster is folks smugly acting smarter than they are when there's evidence on the boards of otherwise.

 

[tsanuri]

Some folks have pulled a complete 180 on both deals. I am probably one of them.

Hey fans can afford to make mistakes, GM's no so much.

That last comment is exactly what's wrong with many sports fans everywhere.
They only expect perfection.
Out of everyone GM, coach, players.
And when they don't get it the sky is falling and everything is going wrong.

 

[fsanford]

Complaining about coaches/players/gm's has been that way since well before people could post on message boards. It is just more visible now and you sometimes will get a mob mentality approach.

Sports not unlike any investment you pay $$ towards support of your team, be it tickets, cable bills, apparel, time invested. In the end you just hope that the guy in charge of that investment gives you a positive return and not turn in to Bernie Madoff or Garth Snow..

Lombardi has done a great job overall, sure a couple of bad investments, Gaborik is like Pets.com investment back in 1998 after a stellar play off perfromance poised to take off with the Kings only to come crashing down, like Pets.com did in 2000.

Also some poor acquisitions in Lucic and Sekara, kind of set the portfolio back.

And the illegal insider trading of Voynov was a killer.

I really hope this year, we take the low risk investment approach, we won't, but if we trade the 1st round pick and Forbort, it better be for a physical asset we can hang on to for awhile. Not the fools gold like Shane Doan or any other rental.

The bank account is getting tapped out.

 

[Trolfoli]

That last comment is exactly what's wrong with many sports fans everywhere.
They only expect perfection.
Out of everyone GM, coach, players.
And when they don't get it the sky is falling and everything is going wrong.

That's only really an issue when trying to push for a championship. Now that the Kings are in re-tool/development mode, there's less pressure.

 

[deaderhead28]

That package won't even get Landeskog alone, unless that pick is a 1st AND the prospect is a top tier one.

You're right,it's way overpayment for a wing.Muzzin alone is fair value.

 

[Telos]

Teams always look to get depth for the playoffs. There will be these types of deals at TDL - but the draft picks might be lower that previous years because of expansion draft.

Yeah, but they are looking for rentals they know they are going to lose. Outside of Gilbert and King, those players aren't rentals and would almost certainly lose value at the expansion draft. Not to mention if contenders are looking for such depth we should consider keeping those players on our roster for the playoffs rather than throw them away for late picks.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

That package won't even get Landeskog alone, unless that pick is a 1st AND the prospect is a top tier one.

oh my bad, i forget that Muzzin isn't a #1D

i blame Team Canada, i keep forgetting that the reason they invite Muzzin is just to make sure Doughty doesn't feel lonely

 

[KingPuckChoo]

You're right,it's way overpayment for a wing.Muzzin alone is fair value.

King + 3rd was my idea of trying to land an Iginla rental

but then again, i don't value King that much

so even this portion of the trade is fair value