Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[MrGuyPerson]

It just gets back to what you consider generational to be. People have different standards, just like with HOF ( I am still amazed that Frank Gore who was never once a top 5 player at his position is going likely to be in the NFL Hall. Same for Bernie Federko)

If you use the original NHL expansion in 1967 as the time-frame that is 56 years ago. If you have Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Lidstrom, Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid as generational players that means you have a "generational player" coming along once every eight years, that kind of cheapens what generational means, right?

I believe McDavid at his peak right now, was a better player than anything I ever saw from Crosby or Ovechkin, and that is taking nothing away from them, they are top 6-10 players. I just think generational should be for guys who are just a little bit better than that.

I agree with 75% of what you're saying here. While I do not personally agree with 25% of it, I respect that each individual can have there own thoughts and beliefs for 100% of that 25%.With my respect for your thoughts now on the record, I will now proceed to make a very subjective case with little basis in fact and a heavy skew towards what ever pops into my head, about why I disagree. It may fun. It also may be a gigantic waste of time to any and all that take the time to read the whole thing. Let's find out.

When McDavid scores a goal body sliding on the ice whule simultaneously rolling over and somehow has enough stick control to still put the puck in the back of net @ me. And maybe... I will concede he is more generational than Ovie. Correction, scores a goal like that and he wins a cup.

When McDavid takes his team to back to back cup appearances in his 3rd and 4th seasons in the NHL and wins one @ me, and maybe... I will concede he's actually better than Prime Crosby(haha...Get It? I thought it was a clever way of saying it is impossible to get me to say that)

Yeah, unless McDavid wins 4 cups, it will not be possible to convince me he is better than prime Crosby. I admit, McDavid has more physical skill than Crosby. Bigger, faster, stronger, better hands, harder shot. But McDavid doesn't really play like Gretzky. He is really his own breed, but if I had to label it I would say McDavid is hybrid of Mario & Lindros. The stick skills and edges/agility of Mario. The straight line speed and ability to protect/hang on to the puck like Lindros. Crosby is not a blend. His game only mirrored one player it was Gretzky. Nay I lied Crosby is a blend as well and he unfortunately has the plagued by injury trait like Lindros as well. All in all, Gretzky and Crosby made alright player look like great players. They were masterminds. So..... until McDavid is able to trick people around the nhl that players like James Neal, Connor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and Jordan Staal are near point per game players because they had the luxury of the expierencing the Cretzky effect, I will concede nothing.

To me the top tier generational guys have a blend of stats, leadership, and most importantly cup(s). McDavid, talented as he may be, has a less imlressive track record for organizational success than.... Ovie(& Lindros). That... is pretty bad. There is no doubt McDavid is a better leader than Ovie. But... at the same time, if we are honest, there was a period in Ovies career where he periodically took the occasional season long mental vacation. He had 0 desire to win. (Which, is sad because despite him barely trying in various of his physical prime seasons he is still 2nd all time in goal scoring.)That said, even though Ovie had periods of meme-able effort, he is still 1 cup up on McDavid.

Scoreboard:
Gretzky - 4
Crosby - 3
Mario - 2
Ovie -1
McDavid & Eric Lindros - 0

I don't normally include D, but Lidstrom is a legend and Bobby Orr changed hockey so why not?

Lidstrom - 4
Orr - 2

I have seen the case appear on here regarding QB, potentially from you sir, "No one expects a 2nd overall player to not be a big contributor by D+3 his performance is negatively historic" or something of the that sort. I will use this criteria as the basis for my next point

Gretzky(Not drafted but had he been) - first cup won D+6. First cup appearance D +5

Crosby- First cup won D+4. First appearance D+3

Mario - First Cup won & appearance D+7

Ovie - First(& only) Cup won & Appearance D +14

Lindros - No wins & only appearance D+6

McDavid - N/A (D + 8)

Now, If you do NOT consider Ovie generational, it is not just historically bad for a generational talent to have not reached the cup final by their D+8 season, it has literally never happened before. Now, on the other hand if you DO consider Ovie to be a generational player, then it is merely statistically improbable that McDavid will even reach a stanley cup.... let alone win one.

I believe every person here would agree the goal of professional sports.... is to win. So.... I will end with a question. Is it possible... for a player to be consider as good as the GOATs when they have never achieved the only accolade that matters in their actual profession?

 

[tomd]

Some of the proposals to offload players - they would have to be deadline deals. No one is giving prospects or picks for mediocre players during the offseason.

Unfortunately deadline deals don't fix the cap situation now.

 

[johnjm22]

Some of the proposals to offload players - they would have to be deadline deals. No one is giving prospects or picks for mediocre players during the offseason.

Even offloading a good player without taking cap back will be difficult.

 

[unicornpig]

Here's my thing--Kopitar is Tim Duncan. The dude does everything right. He is the PERFECT role model for any hockey player coming in. From that standpoint, he's the ideal captain--so moderate in emotion, well-received everywhere he goes.

For THIS team? We need a f***ing asshole.

tkachuck, would be perfect

 

[KINGS17]

tkachuck, would be perfect

...or a spleen-taker like Mattias Norstrom.

 

[Sol]

I definitely think the importance of who’s captain is big. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that the Kings became one of the softest teams in the league when Kopitar became captain.

Kopitar is just not cut out to be that guy who can rally a team. He’s too soft.

It is better to be a warrior in a garden than gardener in a war.

 

[johnjm22]

5. Allowing Blake's number to be retired on his watch

Dean Lombardi is the reason Blake is GM today.

He facilitated the whole thing.

It started with handing him 12M of AEG's money in 2006.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

You can get fiery leadership outside of the captain designation--it's a hole that can easily be filled but hasn't been. Getting rid of Kopi altogether opens up holes that can't be so easily filled

 

[Piston]

Greater Toronto Area

I think another thing to consider with taxation, is those that are most vocal about taxation also hold ideological views that usually do not align with those of 21st century California. I drive out with my old man from CA to our lake house in Northern Michigan every yea, and man, the last few years it’s become quite noticeable how many people are on the interstates leaving CA. And it’s everything from dumpy pickup trucks packed to the max to UHauls to Teslas. So it’s all walks of life financially. And hockey players have ideological views and values just like any of us. Ryan Getzlaf lives on the same street as my mom, and they just sold their place and are heading to Nashville, largely for political reasons. Now in this polarizing world CA could also be an advantage and say Texas or Florida at a disadvantage if a player holds say the opposite views of Getzlaf.

I still think though, for the vast majority of players they are going where the money is the best. Now if Edmonton is offering $4m and Nashville is offering $3.8 maybe they think about it, but when we are talking about a guy like Gavrikov leaving potentially millions on the table to re-sign with the Kings it’s just not likely to happen. People always have this bizarre idea that players give hometown discounts. Shout out to old time hf legend RH63 who was adamant that Kopitar and Doughty were going to both sign for $8m a season to do Dean a favor.



Look on the bright side though. Brandt Clarke’s contract won’t end until 2026 instead of 2025. And Bjornfot continued to learn the system.

This is a great post. In an earlier post, I pointed out that by far the two most important factors in a player deciding where to sign as a UFA are gross salary (an indication of how his talents are valued relative to peers) and the chance to lift the Cup (that is the fulfillment of the dream). But, one can't ignore the intangibles. Most NHL players come from areas where the CA political climate is a net minus. I did not know about Getzlaf- thanks for pointing this out. Nashville is my ultimate destination as well.

On top of this, Gavrikov is Russian and, like all Russians I've ever encountered, is likely very patriotic. I'm sure he's learned to keep his mouth shut, but never for a second doubt where his sympathies lie. Fortunately, The NHL has not made it difficult for Russian players recognizing the difficult position they are in but between the taxes, the state's 'leaning' and the crime, I wonder if the cumulative affect weighs on his decision.

I'm just pissed off right now as my wife's business was vandalized by homeless last night. This is the 4th time in three years this has occurred in addition 2 strong arm robberies and her car window being smashed and purse stolen. Her store is less than ten miles from Manhattan Beach. I've fortunately worked my way out of the state and am hopeful she can now join me full time. What a horrible way for this to happen.

 

[Herby]

Dean Lombardi is the reason Blake is GM today.

He facilitated the whole thing.

It started with handing him 12M of AEG's money in 2006.

And the cap in 2006 was around $40m. That is about the same as a $12m contract today, for a player who was a year older than Kopitar will be this coming season.

Blake showed his appreciation to the organization by refusing to waive his NTC to be traded to SJ at the 2008 deadline so the Kings could get some picks, only to then turn around and sign with the same SJ team that summer.

Rob Blake is guy who keeps abusing his girl, and the Kings are the girl who keeps taking him back.

This guy should never have been welcomed back in any capacity after February 2001. If I could change one single result from a Kings game in history it would have been beating him in 2001.

 

[AbsentMojo]

And the cap in 2006 was around $40m. That is about the same as a $12m contract today, for a player who was a year older than Kopitar will be this coming season.

Blake showed his appreciation to the organization by refusing to waive his NTC to be traded to SJ at the 2008 deadline so the Kings could get some picks, only to then turn around and sign with the same SJ team that summer.

Rob Blake is guy who keeps abusing his girl, and the Kings are the girl who keeps taking him back.

This guy should never have been welcomed back in any capacity after February 2001. If I could change one single result from a Kings game in history it would have been beating him in 2001.

I didnt know that about the deadline thing - but it fits his profile perfectly. Heard he orders eggs Benedict every morning in his local MB coffee shop. FRB

 

[johnjm22]

I always felt Blake had a long term plan to retire and get a job with Kings after his playing career.

Coming back to LA in 2006 was an attempt to repair his image in LA. He was thinking long term IMO.

Dean Lombardi hired him as assistant GM in 2013 and they announced his jersey would be retired in 2014.

As I said, Lombardi facilitated the whole thing.

 

[Nasti]

I’m fairly certain Blake didn’t want to leave LA in 2008 which is why he didn’t waive. He didn’t sign with San Jose on Day 1. He waited until it was clear he wasn’t going to get an offer and had a limited time to accept the San Jose deal. Leave it to HF to use decades old grievances to criticize Blake when his job as GM is enough of a reason.

 

[King'sPawn]

I’m fairly certain Blake didn’t want to leave LA in 2008 which is why he didn’t waive. He didn’t sign with San Jose on Day 1. He waited until it was clear he wasn’t going to get an offer and had a limited time to accept the San Jose deal. Leave it to HF to use decades old grievances to criticize Blake when his job as GM is enough of a reason.

Blake's agent put forth a non-negotiable offer to Lombardi and signed with San Jose before Lombardi could free up cap space.

You know, after he "didn't want to leave LA."

Rob Blake leaves Kings again, this time for San Jose

Rob Blake’s career line with the Kings: 14 seasons, 805 games, two bitter divorces. The Kings and their team captain parted ways again Thursday afternoon when Blake, an unrestricted free agen…

www.sbsun.com

 

[Nasti]

Blake's agent put forth a non-negotiable offer to Lombardi and signed with San Jose before Lombardi could free up cap space.

You know, after he "didn't want to leave LA."

Rob Blake leaves Kings again, this time for San Jose

Rob Blake’s career line with the Kings: 14 seasons, 805 games, two bitter divorces. The Kings and their team captain parted ways again Thursday afternoon when Blake, an unrestricted free agen…

www.sbsun.com

Don’t you I think that if it was as black and white as some say, Dean might pick anyone else on the planet other than Blake as his assistant?

 

[King'sPawn]

Don’t you I think that if it was as black and white as some say, Dean might pick anyone else on the planet other than Blake as his assistant?

Lombardi has extended empathy for Blake, and pointed out how Blake was under pressure from the NHLPA during his first stint with the Kings.

Beyond that, Blake is a competitor, a trait that Lombardi respects. He's not going to turn down an opportunity to bring in an executive just because of decisions as a player.

 

[Nasti]

Lombardi has extended empathy for Blake, and pointed out how Blake was under pressure from the NHLPA during his first stint with the Kings.

Beyond that, Blake is a competitor, a trait that Lombardi respects. He's not going to turn down an opportunity to bring in an executive just because of decisions as a player.

And like my initial point, we shouldn’t keep bringing up this stuff when there’s plenty to criticize as a GM. What he did or didn’t do as a player is irrelevant.

 

[King'sPawn]

And like my initial point, we shouldn’t keep bringing up this stuff when there’s plenty to criticize as a GM. What he did or didn’t do as a player is irrelevant.

I think it's just bringing up additional ways Blake has screwed up the franchise. It's like yeah, ultimately, you will (hopefully) end a relationship with a partner who's unfaithful. And that should be enough. But you also think of other shit your partner did, like making you get rid of some belongings. That by itself wasn't a deal breaker, but it's a huge red flag.

 

[unicornpig]

rangers cutting gallant loose after two years while having 1 year of playoff success. meanwhile blake gonna let TM go into year 5 of being the 2nd highest paid coach with no playoff series wins.....

 

[Herby]

rangers cutting gallant loose after two years while having 1 year of playoff success. meanwhile blake gonna let TM go into year 5 of being the 2nd highest paid coach with no playoff series wins.....

Blake’s hands are tied, even if he wanted to make a change, no GM is getting a 4th coach when he has six seasons with zero playoff results.

Blake and TM are in this together now. They either have some playoff results next season and TM is extended or they don’t and both are gone.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Soft. No way both Spence and Clarke make it. Too many small D especially with Bjornfot.

You are also assuming RB doesn’t qualify MacEwen, which I think he will only do if he can’t replace him during the summer.

I would think also Grundstrom or Lizotte is also include in a deal to shed some salary.

I don’t know why you constantly think Clarke is small lol

 

[King'sPawn]

I don’t know why you constantly think Clarke is small lol

While also saying the fans here are "too hard on Durzi", who's smaller than Clarke.

 

[Herby]

I don’t know why you constantly think Clarke is small lol

The response will be "he plays small" , aka he doesn't take stupid penalties that put the other team up a man while taking himself (his teams best player) off the ice.

 

[Statto]

I think it's just bringing up additional ways Blake has screwed up the franchise. It's like yeah, ultimately, you will (hopefully) end a relationship with a partner who's unfaithful. And that should be enough. But you also think of other shit your partner did, like making you get rid of some belongings. That by itself wasn't a deal breaker, but it's a huge red flag.

The bit that people seem to ignore is that he resigned the Captaincy after the franchise said FU and lowballed him. His response was emotional and misjudged but I understood it. The franchise were the unfaithful ones…

 

[Kingspiracy]

I don’t know why you constantly think Clarke is small lol

While also saying the fans here are "too hard on Durzi", who's smaller than Clarke.

The response will be "he plays small" , aka he doesn't take stupid penalties that put the other team up a man while taking himself (his teams best player) off the ice.

This feels a bit like a pile on. I think its a fair point. Clarke is listed at 6'2 185 (who knows how over measured or up to date that is though) which would be pretty featherlight when added to our already softish defense. Can he handle some of the big rig forwards in the game, especially if paired with another smaller guy? Who is going to stop Kane or Klostin crashing our goalie?