Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[YP44]

I'd still rather have a hard cap. Some teams just wouldn't be able to stay competitive even with a luxury tax.

Removing the hard cap only benefits the wealthy teams, who already have an advantage of being able to afford better facilities, resources, and off-ice personnel.

yup

 

[BigKing]

The Lady Byng thing is such a weird thing. It just sounds so old school and outdated. Here's a list of former players that were winners or finalists for the Lady Byng that I don't think anyone would think of as bad leaders/captains.

Pavel Datsyuk
Brad Richards
Martin St. Louis
Ryan O'Reilly
Nathan MacKinnon
Patrick Marleau
Zach Parise
Nicklas Lidstrom
Mike Modano
Joe Sakic
Adam Oates
Teemu Selanne
Ron Francis

But for some reason Anze Kopitar is a bad captain because leaders shouldn't win that award.

First off, I can't believe MacKinnon won a Lady Byng as I've always thought he's a little bit of a prick. He hasn't come close since winning it and maybe that's why: they've been a better team and he's been a better all-around player since getting a little friskier. Isn't Landeskog the acting captain anyways?

As for the list, I want these players on my team but that doesn't necessarily mean I want them to be the captain. Several names on there that aren't synonymous with being great leaders.

It isn't an indictment of Kopitar's leadership either: it is merely saying that the team needs a different identity and the one they have now is firmly the 11/8 "take it in the ass and never give it back except maybe in the media" with the latter part of that being Doughty's calling card.

 

[Sol]

I’ve been a bit hard on Kopitar before but I do with a sober mind think that Kopitar is a poor leader. I think he’s a work horse but I don’t think he is someone that will get the team amped. I truly think the leader of the team sets the identity of the team. Back when Brown was captain the Kings were just killing players left and right with hits. Kings identity was toughness because they got toughness from the likes of Brown Richards Penner and many others. You had Greene Mitchell.

I know the Kings had tougher players back then too but I don’t think it’s any coincidence that with Kopitar being the model citizen that that does sway players to emulate him. Again the Kings won the Canucks the night Brown pulverized their best player. There’s a reason why everyone remembers that hit vividly.

The Kings have played their softest hockey with Kopitar and Doughty. Kopitar being charmin soft as usual. And Doughty being a coward his entire career.

You have those 2 from the cup team as the sole leaders then yeah you have a problem. I’m not saying the King have to become the broad street bullies again, but your best players need to have some sandpaper.

There’s a reason why under Getzlafs reign that the ducks were generally dirty.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's my thing--Kopitar is Tim Duncan. The dude does everything right. He is the PERFECT role model for any hockey player coming in. From that standpoint, he's the ideal captain--so moderate in emotion, well-received everywhere he goes.

For THIS team? We need a f***ing asshole.

 

[johnjm22]

It doesn't matter who the captain is.

 

[johnjm22]

Playoffs:

The top 3 are not like the bottom 3.

It's really not hard to see what the problem is there.

Getting rid of Durzi, Edler and Walker is addition by subtraction. Instantly makes the team better.

 

[Herby]

On TM, from your lips to God's ears.

What is GTA?

You are correct about the dollars- competitive players want to feel they are compensated relative to what they bring to the table. If Gav thinks he's as good as Ekholm, he wants the same dollars.

You suggest 'net the most'. That's where the CA teams are at a significant disadvantage although I agree gross dollars is a more important metric.

Greater Toronto Area

I think another thing to consider with taxation, is those that are most vocal about taxation also hold ideological views that usually do not align with those of 21st century California. I drive out with my old man from CA to our lake house in Northern Michigan every yea, and man, the last few years it’s become quite noticeable how many people are on the interstates leaving CA. And it’s everything from dumpy pickup trucks packed to the max to UHauls to Teslas. So it’s all walks of life financially. And hockey players have ideological views and values just like any of us. Ryan Getzlaf lives on the same street as my mom, and they just sold their place and are heading to Nashville, largely for political reasons. Now in this polarizing world CA could also be an advantage and say Texas or Florida at a disadvantage if a player holds say the opposite views of Getzlaf.

I still think though, for the vast majority of players they are going where the money is the best. Now if Edmonton is offering $4m and Nashville is offering $3.8 maybe they think about it, but when we are talking about a guy like Gavrikov leaving potentially millions on the table to re-sign with the Kings it’s just not likely to happen. People always have this bizarre idea that players give hometown discounts. Shout out to old time hf legend RH63 who was adamant that Kopitar and Doughty were going to both sign for $8m a season to do Dean a favor.

Playoffs:

The top 3 are not like the bottom 3.

It's really not hard to see what the problem is there.

Getting rid of Durzi, Edler and Walker is addition by subtraction. Instantly makes the team better.

Look on the bright side though. Brandt Clarke’s contract won’t end until 2026 instead of 2025. And Bjornfot continued to learn the system.

 

[SmytheKing]

First off, I can't believe MacKinnon won a Lady Byng as I've always thought he's a little bit of a prick. He hasn't come close since winning it and maybe that's why: they've been a better team and he's been a better all-around player since getting a little friskier. Isn't Landeskog the acting captain anyways?

As for the list, I want these players on my team but that doesn't necessarily mean I want them to be the captain. Several names on there that aren't synonymous with being great leaders.

It isn't an indictment of Kopitar's leadership either: it is merely saying that the team needs a different identity and the one they have now is firmly the 11/8 "take it in the ass and never give it back except maybe in the media" with the latter part of that being Doughty's calling card.

Oh I have NO problem with the premise that the Kings need a new identity and they need to move on from those two at this point. That's valid and totally reasonable. It's the idea that "Kopitar isn't a good leader"/"Shouldn't be a captain" type stuff. Frankly, we have zero idea what that means in a professional hockey environment and, as KP pointed out, Kopitar has been trusted by every coach and GM he's had to be the defacto everything on this team for 15 years. If that doesn't make a good captain, I don't know what would.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Re Kopi as captain.. I see it as you need a bunch of guys who can lead in the room and its the sum total of their vibe that creates the values in the room. The team could survive Kopi and Doughty's mild mannered approach to the game if we had the likes of Williams, Richards, Greene, Stoll, Mitchell type guys sprinkled throughout the lineup. The fact that the entire roster has none of these types of players is the problem... its a giant oversight by the GM. cc Utah

 

[johnjm22]

A sub 30% expected goals percentage is pathetic. Especially when you have guys on the same team in the +50% range.

AND you're getting easier matchups. AND you're getting more O-Zone starts.

Ironically, Spence and Clarke lead the team in expected goals %. Small sample size of course. But's hard to imagine they would have been in the 25-30% range in the playoffs.

 

[SmytheKing]

I'd still rather have a hard cap. Some teams just wouldn't be able to stay competitive even with a luxury tax.

Removing the hard cap only benefits the wealthy teams, who already have an advantage of being able to afford better facilities, resources, and off-ice personnel.

I disagree honestly. If you have a soft cap, those wealthy teams can't just go and sign everyone they want. They're still bound by the cap ceiling. All it allows them to do is retain guys they already have.

For instance, if the Kings wanted to sign both guys they got at the deadline, they'd be free to do it. They can't get anyone else during the Free Agency period though and, until they got back under the cap, they wouldn't be able to in the future either.

Hypothetically, let's say signing everyone this offseason results in the Kings being 5 million over the cap. Now, Kopitar comes off the books next year but, that only gives them 5 million in space. They aren't getting a guy who is doing (currently) what Kopitar is doing for that price in free agency, so they're stuck resigning him for another 3 years. It's going to force teams to be more diligent in drafting and developing players because, if you draft 5 HOF players in one year, you can keep them forever if you like. The trade off is that you will have trouble signing complementary players to fill out the roster.

It's just an ideological difference of opinion though. It's like the same discussion about whether there should be a draft or not.

 

[YP44]

A sub 30% expected goals percentage is pathetic. Especially when you have guys on the same team in the +50% range.

AND you're getting easier matchups. AND you're getting more O-Zone starts.

Ironically, Spence and Clarke lead the team in expected goals %. Small sample size of course. But's hard to imagine they would have been in the 25-30% range in the playoffs.

I was worried every time Edler was on the ice. As much as I am in the pro trade Durzi camp, felt for him having to worry about his guy while covering for Edler too. As a guy who plays D sucks to have to do that....luckily i am usually the guy getting carried.

I disagree honestly. If you have a soft cap, those wealthy teams can't just go and sign everyone they want. They're still bound by the cap ceiling. All it allows them to do is retain guys they already have.

For instance, if the Kings wanted to sign both guys they got at the deadline, they'd be free to do it. They can't get anyone else during the Free Agency period though and, until they got back under the cap, they wouldn't be able to in the future either.

Hypothetically, let's say signing everyone this offseason results in the Kings being 5 million over the cap. Now, Kopitar comes off the books next year but, that only gives them 5 million in space. They aren't getting a guy who is doing (currently) what Kopitar is doing for that price in free agency, so they're stuck resigning him for another 3 years. It's going to force teams to be more diligent in drafting and developing players because, if you draft 5 HOF players in one year, you can keep them forever if you like. The trade off is that you will have trouble signing complementary players to fill out the roster.

It's just an ideological difference of opinion though. It's like the same discussion about whether there should be a draft or not.

There should definitely be a draft...everyone who thinks otherwise probably thinks the earth is flat

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A sub 30% expected goals percentage is pathetic. Especially when you have guys on the same team in the +50% range.

AND you're getting easier matchups. AND you're getting more O-Zone starts.

Ironically, Spence and Clarke lead the team in expected goals %. Small sample size of course. But's hard to imagine they would have been in the 25-30% range in the playoffs.

Those numbers are f***ing gross, ESPECIALLY with the matchups and deployment, as you point out.

If you're going to have the top 4 eating and excelling with those minutes, you need Clarke or someone on the bottom pairing that can take advantage. Same theory with a third line of Vilardi and Fiala.

Instead, TM's insistence completely buried us.

Bless the guy for his systems and being a good human and everywhere he's been, creating the structure, but yeah, it's starting to look like TM = both Todd Mclellan AND Terry Murray, the foundation is there, the 'over the hump' is not, and it's demonstrable in every stop why.

 

[Cook24]

Out: Roy, Walker, Durzi, Arvidsson, Copley, Kaliyev
In: Saros, Graves, Clarke, Spence, Laferriere, Matt Martin


Iafallo-Kopitar-Kempe
Moore-Danault-Vilardi
Fiala-Byfield-Laferriere
Martin-Lizotte-Grundstrom
Kupari

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
Graves-Spence
Bjornfot


Saros/Portillo

Dont ask me how we make this happen...

 

[AbsentMojo]

Out: Roy, Walker, Durzi, Arvidsson, Copley, Kaliyev
In: Saros, Graves, Clarke, Spence, Laferriere, Matt Martin


Iafallo-Kopitar-Kempe
Moore-Danault-Vilardi
Fiala-Byfield-Laferriere
Martin-Lizotte-Grundstrom
Kupari

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
Graves-Spence
Bjornfot


Saros/Portillo

Dont ask me how we make this happen...

It is fun to dream - we've been doing it all year... they wont do shit. If the braintrust that is TM/RB was fine with Durzi playing 2LD most of the season and never saw the need to at least try to upgrade the 3rd pair before entering the playoffs...they think Walker and Durzi are just fine. They prob wont be able to sign Gavrikov due to he will be getting much better net offers (ie post tax) than the Kings can afford. This is a blackhole franchise. If I was a hedge fund manager, id be shorting this team for the next 5 years.

 

[LAKings88]

Out:
Walker 2.65 m
Durzi 1.70 m
Grundstrom 1.30 m
Iaffalo 4.00 m
Edler 0.75 m

10.4 million in cap space.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can see Korpi signing fairly cheap honestly.

And I'm not sure I even like the idea given once the book was out he turned into Cal.

 

[BigKing]

Oh I have NO problem with the premise that the Kings need a new identity and they need to move on from those two at this point. That's valid and totally reasonable. It's the idea that "Kopitar isn't a good leader"/"Shouldn't be a captain" type stuff. Frankly, we have zero idea what that means in a professional hockey environment and, as KP pointed out, Kopitar has been trusted by every coach and GM he's had to be the defacto everything on this team for 15 years. If that doesn't make a good captain, I don't know what would.

You had Modano in the previous list. Dallas named Morrow captain and bumped Modano down to an "A" after a 77 point in 78 game season because Morrow signed a long-term deal and was a heart and soul type player. Like Brown, Modano still played several seasons for Dallas after the "demotion".

After winning the Cup in '99 and going back to the SCF in '00, they were swept out of the 2nd Round in '01, missed in '02, upset in the 2nd round of '03 by the Gigueres and then lost in the first round the next three seasons before making the conference finals in '08 post-captaincy change.

Dallas was a pretty legit team from mid-late 90s up through 2008. After the 2nd round sweep and two first round exits, they looked around and said it was time for a shake up because what was happening was unacceptable based on expectations.

Does this make Modano a bad captain? No. But you had a guy that had been in the league for almost twenty years so you know it is going to end so you make a change to prepare for the future and to shake things up a bit since the results weren't there.

For the Kings, the results have definitely not been there and they also don't have a Morrow-type player that they just signed to a six year extension. I think Danault fits the bill if you wanted to make a change but they probably feel like they can't pass over Doughty.

Kopitar being captain was a case of giving the C to your highest paid player while hoping the weight of the letter would propel him to greater heights. Secondary reason to maybe lighten the load on Brown so he could rebound a bit. Well, save for that Hart run, he's basically been the same guy which is a great player but still the same guy.

If you're going to do the "best player wears the C" thing and said best player isn't a killer, you need to have some killers on the team. Blake appears to have drafted next-to-zero killers and every prospect that comes in winds up assimilating into what 11/8 have set as the template for "Kings hockey" which can basically be summed up as "the power play is our enforcer" (hat tip to Andy Murray).

 

[DoktorJeep]

Some fans love to point to Dean’s transactions around Sekera, Lucic, Bishop and Cernak as primary causes for his downfall. But these are just venial sins against his truly mortal mistakes.

1. Admitting disgruntled ex players back into the fold in hopes of better PR
2. Not firing Sutter when his job was on the line
3. Not buying out Richards when it was easy
4. Not letting Kopitar walk as a UFA after he produced 2 cups for $6.8m cap hit

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Some fans love to point to Dean’s transactions around Sekera, Lucic, Bishop and Cernak as primary causes for his downfall. But these are just venial sins against his truly mortal mistakes.

1. Admitting disgruntled ex players back into the fold in hopes of better PR
2. Not firing Sutter when his job was on the line
3. Not buying out Richards when it was easy
4. Not letting Kopitar walk as a UFA after he produced 2 cups for $6.8m cap hit

I think every team would re-up Kopitar. It’s not as if he’s been a sunk cost.

 

[BigKing]

Some fans love to point to Dean’s transactions around Sekera, Lucic, Bishop and Cernak as primary causes for his downfall. But these are just venial sins against his truly mortal mistakes.

1. Admitting disgruntled ex players back into the fold in hopes of better PR
2. Not firing Sutter when his job was on the line
3. Not buying out Richards when it was easy
4. Not letting Kopitar walk as a UFA after he produced 2 cups for $6.8m cap hit

5. Allowing Blake's number to be retired on his watch

 

[kingsholygrail]

It's going to be Copley/Petersen next year. But mostly Copley.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Kings need to make some changes! We need to get younger everywhere and add as much speed as possible otherwise we're just chasing and hoping for good results come play-off time! And by getter younger we give ourself some Cap space to entice a good/great UFA to come LA way

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

If I was GMBlake I'd jettison out for draft picks...Lizotte,Moore,Iafallo,Walker and Roy! The last 2 should be dealt and may command a decent draft choice! Both are UFA in 2024! They need to get better so Blake will have to swallow hard and not be "Married" to players! In getting rid of some vets it signals to the youngsters in Ontario that Jobs are up for grabs and they need to work a bit harder! And in AHL Ontario decisions need to made about a handful of players going into year 4 Pro! Will they be dealt for picks! I hope they go somewhere if not LA so they can succeed...Fagemo, Madden,Lias,Vallalta,Moverare,Dudas,Thomas

 

[Choralone]

Some of the proposals to offload players - they would have to be deadline deals. No one is giving prospects or picks for mediocre players during the offseason.