head eyes
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- Oct 8, 2015
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Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread
- Thread starter ibleedkings
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Watch Dubois wind up in Boston now that they dumped Hall to Chicago.
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
Ok. I’m sorry that PLD is barely better now at even strength than Byfield was in his first half season in the NHL. (Several of PLD’s seasons have been worse at even strength than what Byfield did this past season.)
Schrute farms
LA Kings: new GM wanted -- inquire within
- Jul 7, 2020
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If he makes this trade, there's not much more Blake could do with all the limited assets and cap space going forward. so either this works out great for him and the Kings win big -- saving his job. Or he gets fired in 2-3 years. One way or another (if he does this trade), it's going to work itself out: win big & stay...or fail & fired. Either way it a win for me
Sol
Smile
- Jun 30, 2017
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Why even bring that up? Byfield hasn’t been able to play center since entering the league. His best season was being baby sat by Kopitar and Kempe who suddenly has become a top goal scorer.
I know discrediting players is a big deal on these boards, but to say that PLD and Byfield are on the same level is blatant obfuscation. If the Kings are going to be trading for PLD it should be around byfield +. Byfield can’t even score more than 3 goals in 50+ games. There’s so many question marks with him that it makes sense to trade him. At least we all know Vilardi is a potential superstar in the making.
This is how it is.
Vilardi>PLD>Byfield.
head eyes
Registered User
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Hockey is more than even strength pp/60 while x is on the ice with y. I don't even want this trade to go through, I'm just saying if it does, I'd rather keep Gabe over Byfield.
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
I didn’t say anything about “x is on the ice with y.” You’re just making stuff up now. I pointed to very straightforward numbers. A large majority of an NHL game is played at even strength, which is why it provides extensive insight into what a player does most of the time he’s on the ice.
Byfield has barely played on the PP in his 40ish NHL games so it’s far too small of a sample size to consider anyway.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
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Fairly new to his work (started following him after Jesse's recommendation) - really like his stuff and I appreciate the way he breaches topics others don't. I love the different angles presented!
If you haven't started following him, I really encourage you to do so (I think it's lahockeynow.com?) Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you all to bookmark mayorsmanor.com, especially around the draft.
But I truly recommend you follow the contributors that resonate with you - I understand the frustration of them not asking the questions you want them to ask, but I know that a lot of effort is put forth to give us the best content they can.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
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All good points. Whenever I look at PLD's deeper numbers they always look so unimpressive.
He's good on the PP. What else is he good at? Not much from what I can tell.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
This is the only account on Twitter worth following
head eyes
Registered User
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I admit I was exaggerating to make a point. But don't you think his stats are a bit misleading based on who he played with most of the season?
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I agree on QB, but we are cherry picking shooting % in the case of Byfield but ignoring it in the case of Vilardi.
QB is not shooting 4% again, but Vilardi isn't shooting 19% either, people acknowledge it with QB but won't with Vilardi.
If QB had shot the 12.8% he did in 2022 this season he would have had around 10 goals.
If Vilardi had shot his career shooting percentage last year he would have had 17 goals instead of 23.
It kind of corrected itself with Vilardi even last season, in his first 15 games, Vilardi had 10 goals and was shooting a whopping 24%. In his final 43 games he had a much more realistic 13 goals on a 16% shooting, which is still pretty high but is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. Gabe shooting 16.4% (again a very good number) for the entire season would have resulted in 19 goals in 63 games, again, that is a good number, don't get me wrong, but it's much more realistic than what we saw. But people are ignoring the unsustainable start and projecting growth here (while projecting zero for the player we are trading for despite being only a year older).
Because PLD is a center and Gabe can't play center. It's a huge part of why this deal is being discussed, it gives the Kings guarantees at C both now and in the future. Despite the lies that Kings employees tell podcasters (and indirectly the fanbase), there was no way in the big picture that the Kings expected QB to be this far behind projection enough to be making this trade for a C, but when you are trying to fit things into a 2 year window around older and declining players it leaves you no choice but to be reactionary.
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Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
I don’t, particularly considering Kopitar and Kempe were much, much better with Byfield than without him. Byfield made a number of great plays that led to goals (hence his high level of primary assists) and many that created great chances but didn’t result in goals. If anything, Byfield was snakebitten when it came to goal scoring and I would put money on him scoring at a much higher rate than 3% of his shots next season.
I think you’re conflating points raised by different people. I agree that Vilardi is likely not going to consistently shoot at such a high rate going forward, much as I doubt Byfield’s real goal scoring talent is that of a 3-4% shooter.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
The Kings can't trade QB in this deal, unless they internally think he is absolutely cooked as an NHL prospect. And if they feel that way it's likely it's a sentiment shared by the rest of the league.
Kopitar is 36 years old, he could fall off at any time (including this season). They need QB to be there to hopefully develop into something similar to PLD (probably his ceiling at this point) to be the 1C/2C duo with PLD whenever that happens. With Vilardi being a winger, Kupari being a 4th line guy and Turcotte likely busting or ending up a depth piece, there just isn't anything else at C. Danault ain't a 2C on a championship team with PLD as the 1C.
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
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Any deal the Kings do...signing, trades, contracts, are a conglomeration of:
Beckerman, Luc, Cheeseman, Blake and Bergeron and now Emerson is Ast GM.
Add Todd as well. I am sure he gets a say.
No, I am not a staunch Blake supporter; although I like most moves and signings.
Kovalchuk was a disaster, hiring Desjardins was a joke...was part of those Luc?
Probably.
But it should be known, any deal, signing, contract is this conglomeration.
I liked that Dean probably had 100% control of moves, decisions and the blueprint
and exercising it. This is not an excuse for Blake, for any detrimental moves, signings,
but it's this conglomeration that makes all moves. There's 7 involved, at some degree
and I think that's not a good thing.
Look at this top heavy crazy front office:
www.nhl.com
Not getting past the first round in 6+ years, is not a Blake thing...it's 1 part of what
is management, , coaching, development staff and drafting. It's 4 things and then
also add the players performance and in 2022, you can add injuries to Doughty and
Arvidsson and in 2023 injuries to Fiala, Vilardi and Anderson at maybe 60%.
2022 and 2023 playoffs could have seen 1st rd wins, without those amount of injuries
to key players.
On the positive new thinking : I like that they are bringing in Euro coaches / trainers to dev camp.
I loved the Hiller hire for PP....and this new skills coach? Sure, sounds good., Adding 4 or whatever analytic hires a few yrs ago...I guess? If they actually do anything ground breaking.
Beckerman, Luc, Cheeseman, Blake and Bergeron and now Emerson is Ast GM.
Add Todd as well. I am sure he gets a say.
No, I am not a staunch Blake supporter; although I like most moves and signings.
Kovalchuk was a disaster, hiring Desjardins was a joke...was part of those Luc?
Probably.
But it should be known, any deal, signing, contract is this conglomeration.
I liked that Dean probably had 100% control of moves, decisions and the blueprint
and exercising it. This is not an excuse for Blake, for any detrimental moves, signings,
but it's this conglomeration that makes all moves. There's 7 involved, at some degree
and I think that's not a good thing.
Look at this top heavy crazy front office:
Official Los Angeles Kings Website | Los Angeles Kings
The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.
www.nhl.com
Not getting past the first round in 6+ years, is not a Blake thing...it's 1 part of what
is management, , coaching, development staff and drafting. It's 4 things and then
also add the players performance and in 2022, you can add injuries to Doughty and
Arvidsson and in 2023 injuries to Fiala, Vilardi and Anderson at maybe 60%.
2022 and 2023 playoffs could have seen 1st rd wins, without those amount of injuries
to key players.
On the positive new thinking : I like that they are bringing in Euro coaches / trainers to dev camp.
I loved the Hiller hire for PP....and this new skills coach? Sure, sounds good., Adding 4 or whatever analytic hires a few yrs ago...I guess? If they actually do anything ground breaking.
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BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
With the way he has shot the puck so far, it is fair to say QB won't repeat the 4% shooting percentage this upcoming season.
Could be lower.
Could be lower.
tny760
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
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i guess you're being fair, maybe i'm mixing some of my hatred for the reactionary mess with the player. i don't particularly like PLD's attitude which doesn't help things
just feels like there's a bit more to this than evaluation as a hockey trade. in that regard, it's probably decent, just ill-timed
kovacro
Uvijek Vjerni
What does Pierre-Luc Dubois have to offer to his next prospective team?
Pierre-Luc Dubois, who turned 25 over the weekend, is coming off a 63-point season — 52 of which came in his first 52 games.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I've kind of learned not to read to much into what a players perception is, there is a lot that goes into that.
When the Kings traded for Ryan Smyth he was lauded as some great leader and character, but it turned out he was only in it for what was best for himself and completely embarrassed himself with his play on the ice his 2nd season and then the blatant lies told to the media in response to a (correct) media report that Smyth had demanded a trade to Edmonton because they were the only team who were going to extend him.
Jeff Carter on the other hand came in with a ton of baggage, attitude problems in both Philly (which lead to the original trade to CBJ) and then in CBJ where despite making around $6m a year he chose to sulk and be unprofessional. He of course came to LA and was a great player both on and off the ice for the Kings.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I don't understand why projecting Vilardi to improve has to mean anything about his shooting % staying or going up.
This forum has a weird myopic focus on raw goals vs. points going back to some very strange arguments about Kopitar (would you be mad if Kopitar had 82 assists and no goals, etc.).
I'm 100% certain the theory isn't that Vilardi is a 40 goal scorer in waiting but that his possession and 'heft' improved leaps and bounds as evidenced by his drawing of penalties and just running-backing his way through 3-4 checks, and that will lead to better production....and 'production' means possession, goals, points, penalties drawn, etc., not just friggin even strength raw goals.
And the reverse really goes for Byfield, for all the stuff he generated to NOT end in points vs. his advanced stats, we see not only room for growth/improvement, but also him to fill in the current blanks with just better luck.
This forum has a weird myopic focus on raw goals vs. points going back to some very strange arguments about Kopitar (would you be mad if Kopitar had 82 assists and no goals, etc.).
I'm 100% certain the theory isn't that Vilardi is a 40 goal scorer in waiting but that his possession and 'heft' improved leaps and bounds as evidenced by his drawing of penalties and just running-backing his way through 3-4 checks, and that will lead to better production....and 'production' means possession, goals, points, penalties drawn, etc., not just friggin even strength raw goals.
And the reverse really goes for Byfield, for all the stuff he generated to NOT end in points vs. his advanced stats, we see not only room for growth/improvement, but also him to fill in the current blanks with just better luck.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
The problem isn't that he tried to do it and failed. It's that it was promoted as some sort of success because he tried.
fast forward two years and not only has practically every starting goalie from that season and every goalie in the system walked, he has yet to address it.
THAT is the problem. We went form 'well, we TRIED to draft Jesper" to "check it out we've let everyone else go and our entire goaltending system is Copley-Portillo-Villalta-cyborg back Ingham"
So the vibe is similar here. I don't want PLD at this price anyway, but he can say he tried to do it and failed, and he's the only GM in the league who is getting brownie points/gold stars for effort while the titanic sinks around him.
I mean while there are still massive holes at organization LHD and G he's still trying to 'fix' the top six and none of his prospects are making noise is a different convo anyway but still
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