Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Schmooley]

You are assuming though that Byfield is being judged on results....not process....why? Do you think Blake, TM don't know he's only getting 9 minutes, don't know he's 19 years old, etc? Why would you assume YOUR BENCHMARK AS A FAN....is the same benchmark they are using, to determine if Byfield, had a good or a bad game?

If Blake and Tmac think thats the best way to develop him do you think thats good?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I want to see the Kings get in the playoffs so bad....beat out the Ducks and the Oil for a spot. It's been years since the Kings won a playoff game...and the 4-0 Vegas sweep still grips me.
I'm all for slight overpayment to get Chychrun. I doubt Florida is really offering both Lundell and Specner Knight. I don't think Van deals Boeser or Miller here and don't want rentals.

Vilardi, Kupari, Grans and #1 I don't think Todd is enamored with Gabe so much and Kupari has talent, but no room for him at center and as for wing, Chromiak and Arty will be the ones
to take top 6 spots. Grans has really progressed since his draft, but way too many RHD: Doughty, Durzi, Roy, Clarke and Faber are ahead of him...and still have Walker and Spence.

Still may not make the playoffs, but I see Chychrun looking better here with more talent and a team pushing for playoffs...plus, playing with Drew. If the Kings don't make the playoffs?
At least you have Chychrun on board for term. Add a scorer in the offseason. Players like Byfield, Durzi and Kaliyev will be that much better and help elevate this team next year.
Lose AA, Brown, Maatta will only help as well. The 3 weakest links gone.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If Blake and Tmac think thats the best way to develop him do you think thats good?

No idea, not there at practices, not there in the room etc,

I do know, valuing processes over results, will result in the better playing, one can get results and still make piss poor decisions due to puck luck, but when the decisions being made are the right ones, long term that plays out better.

 

[Schmooley]

No idea, not there at practices, not there in the room etc,

I do know, valuing processes over results, will result in the better playing, one can get results and still make piss poor decisions due to puck luck, but when the decisions being made are the right ones, long term that plays out better.

So you dont have an idea i respect that. Dont be mad if people think its bs. But were just on a message board saying what we think about the Kings. Right or wrong were just discussing whats on our minds. As a paying customer I would like them to give him a shot with better linemates and a bigger role in all situations. Thats all this is.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

So you dont have an idea i respect that. Dont be mad if people think its bs. But were just on a message board saying what we think about the Kings. Right or wrong were just discussing whats on our minds. As a paying customer I would like them to give him a shot with better linemates and a bigger role in all situations. Thats all this is.

Not upset, just saying that, as outsiders, we don't have an idea of the metrics THEY use, to determine what is a good game or not, outsiders are going on results, and that may not be the case, maybe he's making too many poor decisions ...that's not on linemates, not on ice time, not on PP, that's on him, and they want to correct that first....maybe he has to refine that decision making, positioning etc. who knows, but you asked me if I thought that was the best way to develop him, yea, I do, I think he needs to be judged on processes and decision making vs goals and assists, at this point.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

So you dont have an idea i respect that. Dont be mad if people think its bs. But were just on a message board saying what we think about the Kings. Right or wrong were just discussing whats on our minds. As a paying customer I would like them to give him a shot with better linemates and a bigger role in all situations. Thats all this is.

I misread your question in that initial response, I was answering the question of, do I think Blake and TM think that's the best way.....

 

[KINGS17]

That’s all fine an dandy, but:

You didn’t address any point that was made.

That was a side tangent about incremental improvement (which I’m entirely for, and the current model is entirely preventing), trades (of which I’m absolutely not criticizing the current organization), UFA signings (where Blake has done a very good job), and hypothetical playoff performances.

All that’s being said by a good number of people, is that by holding on to the glory years with these aging vets is not the path to the promised land.

Dean Lombardi didn’t try to re-tread behind Demitra and Lubo. Let contracts expire of those who aren’t going to be here when the youth is actually ready to compete, and then let that same youth go through the growing pains without the misplaced expectation of playoff success.

Development is paramount right now, or else we risk missing the whole benefit of stockpiling these high picks.

Development, not results, is what should be the primary concern.

Yes, the Kings might be forced to keep Kopitar on the roster because his contract can't be moved in a trade. That does not stop the Kings from hiring a coach that will play Kopitar on the third line, and keep him off the #1 power play unit.

 

[tkb81]

Yes, the Kings might be forced to keep Kopitar on the roster because his contract can't be moved in a trade. That does not stop the Kings from hiring a coach that will play Kopitar on the third line, and keep him off the #1 power play unit.

might? haha yah lets put our leading scorer on the 3rd line and off the 1pp .. i get our special teams suck .. but thats not all on anze

 

[Trash Panda]

might? haha yah lets put our leading scorer on the 3rd line and off the 1pp .. i get our special teams suck .. but thats not all on anze

Kopi should absolutely eat the lions share of the 5 on 5 minutes, he isn’t the selkie level center he once was, but he is more than adequate at the task of being a positive possession player who can absolutely put up points at even strength.

There is no arguing that his lack of creativity is hurting the power play though. Him and drew both can’t move the puck quickly enough to play into the current system that’s employed. There is a reason that PP2 (regardless of personnel) is usually a much more active and effective unit.

Watching Anze dust the puck off and coral the puck with his back to the slot for 30 seconds of a shift is painful to watch. He plays 5v5 hockey at all times.

 

[johnjm22]

Of course I am serious. What has Kopitar done this season to convince you he should remain as the 1C, especially on the power play?

It's time to move on from the idea that Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are going to magically lead the Kings to any type of playoff success at anytime in the future. If Byfield isn't playing in 1C situations, how is he going to develop a 1C game and mentality? The Kings need Byfield to learn how to impose his will (something he isn't going to learn from Kopitar) and take over games. The kid isn't going to do this playing on the 3rd line with Brown.

In the big scheme of things, making the playoffs this year does not matter. It may matter to Robitaille and Blake, because their jobs may finally be on the line, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the development of the players who are the key to any future success the Kings may have on the ice.

I didn't say anything about 2022 Kopitar.

If 19 year old Byfield was as good as 19 year old Kopitar I'd be totally fine with him playing as the number 1 center.

My argument is that throwing a kid into a role in which he'd clearly be over his head, can't be good for his development. That's what desperate organizations do; rush prospects.

 

[Sol]

might? haha yah lets put our leading scorer on the 3rd line and off the 1pp .. i get our special teams suck .. but thats not all on anze

It’s in doughty and Anze. Doughty has a god awful shot and holds on to the puck too long and Kopitar never shoots so they don’t ever defend him which makes the PK even more effective. Doughty and Kopitar are ass and are a big part of the PP ineptitude

 

[Sol]

I didn't say anything about 2022 Kopitar.

If 19 year old Byfield was as good as 19 year old Kopitar I'd be totally fine with him playing as the number 1 center.

My argument is that throwing a kid into a role in which he'd clearly be over his head, can't be good for his development. That's what desperate organizations do; rush prospects.

God I can’t stand this archaic mentality that’s so exclusive to this board. Kopitar and Doughty became a big part of the team in their draft year. Stop making top picks sound like incompetent idiots. Shouldn’t we put byfield in the best position to succeed by giving him all the possible rope if he does end up failing. This mentality is so backwards. How come none of our players play in their draft year but across the league it happens.

 

[Sol]

It takes very little paying attention to do to see that Kopitar has taken some steps back. I’d say danault has been better than him and that Kopitar has been weak defensively this year then he ever has been

 

[BigKing]

Kopitar is still a very good player but he doesn't look as good as he could look because he is playing too many minutes.

That said, he is still right on pace for his career average in points per season (72) and he's cranking on face-offs with a 57% win percentage. He's a minus player though but, IMO, that could be cleaned up if he wasn't playing so many minutes.

He's still catnip for an NHL coach. Giant center that wears the "C", easy to coach and is going to go out and put up 20 goals and ~70 points.

It's much easier for T-Mac to just tap him on the shoulder and send him out when he is trying to win now than show some restraint and think about the bigger picture. Then again, Blake was supposed to be a "got to get this guy as GM before he is snapped up" guy like some kind of wunderkind but it has all been paint-by-numbers right down to the T-Mac hire who is also paint-by-numbers.

It's like the Super Bowl. If Zac Taylor calls two plays for Chase on 3rd and 4th & 1, he doesn't get criticized as much since he was going to his stud even if the plays don't work. Instead, he called for a handoff to the back-up RB on 3rd and 1 and has rightfully been dragged for it. T-Mac is going to live and die by riding 11 & 8.

As for comparisons to Kopitar, Byfield is nowhere near as good at the same age. He's not as good as 34 year old Kopitar. Anze was playing against men in the WC his draft year while Byfield was running 3C at the WJC in his D + 1.

My biggest criticism of Byfield has been a tendency to defer or just blend in and not just go out and assert himself. I think @bland mentioned it that Durzi is pretty much the only prospect that has come up this year that just went for it, seized his opportunity and didn't let go. While I hate Byfield's linemates, he needs to act the part regardless. If you have that much skill and natural talent, it should shine through more and it is too easy to blame coaching for a player playing timid hockey. Not a T-Mac fan but I don't think they are telling every prospect besides Durzi to play scared.

 

[RaymondReddington]

You say teams can and do move on from aging stars......give some examples.....please.... without it being the players choice to move on....what teams, what players? Kane, Toews, still in CHI, Ovehckin, still in WSH, Crosby, Malkin, still in PIT, Benn, still in DAL, so....again without it being the players choice...who?

This is a very disingenuous condition...you well know any player in the aging star category is going to have some kind of no movement/trade clause that gives them choice of if and where they can be traded, hence their choice. To use the bold as a disqualifying condition nullifies the issue/point, which is why you included it.

 

[bland]

might? haha yah lets put our leading scorer on the 3rd line and off the 1pp .. i get our special teams suck .. but thats not all on anze

Actually, Anze's dip in performance has adversely affected both the PP and PK much more than his 5x5 shifts.

 

[BigKing]

Actually, Anze's dip in performance has adversely affected both the PP and PK much more than his 5x5 shifts.

Yep. He's at a 72 point pace with not much assistance from the power play.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is a very disingenuous condition...you well know any player in the aging star category is going to have some kind of no movement/trade clause that gives them choice of if and where they can be traded, hence their choice. To use the bold as a disqualifying condition nullifies the issue/point, which is why you included it.

Not at all, I included it, because the guy is making it sound like it happens ALL THE TIME....so please....share some examples.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No, what is a silly notion is that hockey people can't see the writing on the wall and didn't do something different given the same circumstances.

Your reasoning regarding most franchises would just sit there and choose what the Kings have chosen doesn't hold water. Teams can and do move on from aging stars.

Free agents have never considered LA as a great destination, that is unless you are an over the hill star looking to cash in on this franchise's penchant for foolishness for one last deal while enjoying the beach in your last few seasons.

Name all the teams walking away from 28-30 year old top players, who want to play wherever it is. The players hold the cards in the situation. It's why they always get the huge contract. Every stupid time.

I've never disagreed with you that it's not smart, but teams are too talent starved to do anything else. It's a reality of the business.

Do I dislike Luc, yes, just look at my avatar. But, I want to see the Kings win more than I want to get rid of Robitaille. If, the Kings win another Cup and Luc gets the credit, I'm perfectly happy to eat crow.

Is Brown going to retire mid-season. Of course not, you are correct that he has too much pride. But, does that mean he should pay every game? The guy can't make or receive a pass anymore- look at the last game for evidence. Sure, keep him on the roster, play him in and out of the lineup as appropriate, but he needs to get used to being a healthy scratch.

As to AA, you are again correct, he is untradable. Does that mean he should not be in the press box? He has no future on this team. Why should he block Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD etc.?

It's time to play and develop the kids as many posters who know far more about the sport than I do have suggested. The future is in 2-3 years, not now.

It's about money. Most guys that make millions play when healthy. It's unrealistic to expect the Kings to be an exception to every general rule. How many teams would tell their equivalent of Brown to sit in the press box? Then again, how many would take his C away because he didn't mesh with a coach that got fired a year later?

Yes, the Kings might be forced to keep Kopitar on the roster because his contract can't be moved in a trade. That does not stop the Kings from hiring a coach that will play Kopitar on the third line, and keep him off the #1 power play unit.

The Ducks have a ton if young guys playing. Who averages the most on the team? Old ass Getzlaf. At ES and the PP.

Easier said than done to get a coach who won't play vets when he has them available.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

My half cocked suspicion still needs a larger sample size, but here it is:

Of late, we perform better on the road. This is at least partially because the Toddfather is unable to control matchups, and elects to roll lines more evenly. At home, he will defer to Danault and moreso Kopitar for the lions share of ice time.

 

[bland]

My half cocked suspicion still needs a larger sample size, but here it is:

Of late, we perform better on the road. This is at least partially because the Toddfather is unable to control matchups, and elects to roll lines more evenly. At home, he will defer to Danault and moreso Kopitar for the lions share of ice time.

Well, if any one player is a good representation of the team, its Kopitar.

Home: 26 gp, 26 points, -10
Road: 22 gp, 16 points, +3

Wins: 24 gp, 28 points, +15
Losses (including OT/SO): 24 gp, 14 points, -22

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar is still a very good player but he doesn't look as good as he could look because he is playing too many minutes.

That said, he is still right on pace for his career average in points per season (72) and he's cranking on face-offs with a 57% win percentage. He's a minus player though but, IMO, that could be cleaned up if he wasn't playing so many minutes.

He's still catnip for an NHL coach. Giant center that wears the "C", easy to coach and is going to go out and put up 20 goals and ~70 points.

It's much easier for T-Mac to just tap him on the shoulder and send him out when he is trying to win now than show some restraint and think about the bigger picture. Then again, Blake was supposed to be a "got to get this guy as GM before he is snapped up" guy like some kind of wunderkind but it has all been paint-by-numbers right down to the T-Mac hire who is also paint-by-numbers.

It's like the Super Bowl. If Zac Taylor calls two plays for Chase on 3rd and 4th & 1, he doesn't get criticized as much since he was going to his stud even if the plays don't work. Instead, he called for a handoff to the back-up RB on 3rd and 1 and has rightfully been dragged for it. T-Mac is going to live and die by riding 11 & 8.

As for comparisons to Kopitar, Byfield is nowhere near as good at the same age. He's not as good as 34 year old Kopitar. Anze was playing against men in the WC his draft year while Byfield was running 3C at the WJC in his D + 1.

My biggest criticism of Byfield has been a tendency to defer or just blend in and not just go out and assert himself. I think @bland mentioned it that Durzi is pretty much the only prospect that has come up this year that just went for it, seized his opportunity and didn't let go. While I hate Byfield's linemates, he needs to act the part regardless. If you have that much skill and natural talent, it should shine through more and it is too easy to blame coaching for a player playing timid hockey. Not a T-Mac fan but I don't think they are telling every prospect besides Durzi to play scared.

just an observation but again I don’t think you can compare the offense and defense prospects due to the logjam.

durzi got his shot as next man up not due to amazing thinking but because of the deaths of walker doughty roy and edler and the waiving and loss of wolanin and eventually claugue. Much like 4th line kaliyev they stumbled into it after their hands were forced by injury and mismanagement. Now you have to be a little lucky and to his credit he ran with it but that would be more akin to losing kopitar danault and Kempe and finally giving byfield 15+ minutes a game to figure it out.

No prospect is running away with the game with 8 minutes of playing time. that’s not guts or timidity or whatever. That’s just lack of opportunity and rhythm for guys who are used to big offensive minutes. Byfield showed us assertiveness and instinct as soon as he came back with a 15 minutes game…then promptly got his minutes cut and hasn’t done much since. Very similar to the team Canada thing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Name all the teams walking away from 28-30 year old top players, who want to play wherever it is. The players hold the cards in the situation. It's why they always get the huge contract. Every stupid time.

I've never disagreed with you that it's not smart, but teams are too talent starved to do anything else. It's a reality of the business.



It's about money. Most guys that make millions play when healthy. It's unrealistic to expect the Kings to be an exception to every general rule. How many teams would tell their equivalent of Brown to sit in the press box? Then again, how many would take his C away because he didn't mesh with a coach that got fired a year later?



The Ducks have a ton if young guys playing. Who averages the most on the team? Old ass Getzlaf. At ES and the PP.

Easier said than done to get a coach who won't play vets when he has them available.

Sure. Let’s parse that. Getzlaf leads—with less than 19 minutes a game. Zegras and the others are all getting 14-18. That’s a much better spread than the all to frequent 21-8 we have seen lately and THAT is what is killing kopitar.

No one is saying DONT play the vets, just saying look at a f***ing clock once in a while so you don’t OVERplay 30+ vets.

 

[Fishhead]

Well, if any one player is a good representation of the team, its Kopitar.

Home: 26 gp, 26 points, -10
Road: 22 gp, 16 points, +3

Wins: 24 gp, 28 points, +15
Losses (including OT/SO): 24 gp, 14 points, -22

Overall I'm probably one of the few that has actually liked most of what TMac has done, but not spreading the ice time enough infuriates me. It's just so obvious that it needs to happen, it's backed up both visually and by the numbers.

 

[NikF]

They need Byfield and/or Clarke to develop into a star player if this is going to be a Cup team. It was good that they lucked into Kopitar because I'm not sure if they're capable of picking/developing a star forward. When you have a #2 overall you've got to let him adjust to the NHL game with the talent level he has. 15mins making mistakes while learning how to utilize his natural gifts is better than learning to compete with 10mins when you're talking about prime talent. I'm sure Byfield could play 15mins and make his mistakes and come back stronger next season. Instead, he'll just have to do that anyways later on while having possibly his confidence/rhythm thrown off. It could end up being not important in the longrun, but it's perplexing that they're handling their most prized asset almost as an afterthought to a veteran-laden playoff push, especially when that asset is the key to winning any future Cups and the vets here have no realistic chance of winning anyways. The fact that this turned more into an another kick at the can season for the vets rather than a growth season for the next wave of players is disappointing.