Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Axl Rhoadz]

Let's not forget that he blew around Pronger in his first game and roofed it, he made him look like he was in juniors. Byfield doesn't have that in his toolbox at the pro level yet.

Agree with your post, but Byfield almost did just that in his first game this season..remember? I know what it wasn't Pronger he was skating around, but he was inches from burying that and would have been very reminiscent of a young Kopitar.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Completely disagree. He isn't struggling for a 19 year old breaking in to the league, he is "struggling" as a 3rd line center on a team chasing the playoffs. The pressure is changing the perception, but this is exactly what should be expected out of someone so young and so new to the league.

The pressure to perform is artificially magnified due to the team being desperate to succeed now. Remove that desperation and playoff hope, play Byfield, Turcotte and Vilardi now so they get the baby steps out of the way in a harmless situation, let them find their way in their best roles and accept the lumps.

That is all part and parcel of a rebuild. This isn't a veteran team that abnormally sucked for one year and got lucky in the lottery. This is a truly bad team that earned its high picks and foolishly decided that the best route wasn't to groom the next generation of highly skilled players, but instead to augment the core that had so clearly spoiled by adding even more veteran players.

And those additions aren't supporting the core, they are leading the damn team and putting the core right where they should be - supporting roles. Except they aren't supporting the fruits of the rebuild, which is the only path back to the top - they are supporting 2nd line veteran additions.

The core need to understand that they will never compete in this league again until new leaders and top line players are truly running the show. Our management is a group of players who ran well past their best-by dates and there is nothing to suggest that they understand that the Cup core can no longer play at a contending level.

So while a lot of the miscreants here want us to shut up and enjoy the "success" of the year, they and apparently the management and veteran players are all well and truly blind to the fact that this year really is just spinning tires in their own man made mud.

And the kids - the only real hope - are getting hurt by it.

Your ire should go toward the coach. Upper management gives a coach a roster, and the game to game should be, and thankfully seems to be, handled by the guy behind the bench. If Byfield is playing 11min a night, that's on the coach. If Kaliyev is stuck with Lizotte, that's on the coach.

Not firing TM, or even hiring him in the first place, that you can blame Blake for. Or, Robitaille if you want. Whatever.

 

[Bandit]

You can't be serious.

There's a lightyear difference between 19 year old Kopitar and 19 year old Byfield.

Give QB more minutes, put him in a better situation, sure. But having him play 20 minutes a night when he's clearly struggling can't be good for his development. That's what desperate organizations do.

Byfield is only struggling because he’s dragging around 400lbs of garbage with him for 9 minutes a game. His only 9 minutes.

 

[KINGS17]

You can't be serious.

There's a lightyear difference between 19 year old Kopitar and 19 year old Byfield.

Give QB more minutes, put him in a better situation, sure. But having him play 20 minutes a night when he's clearly struggling can't be good for his development. That's what desperate organizations do.

Of course I am serious. What has Kopitar done this season to convince you he should remain as the 1C, especially on the power play?

It's time to move on from the idea that Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are going to magically lead the Kings to any type of playoff success at anytime in the future. If Byfield isn't playing in 1C situations, how is he going to develop a 1C game and mentality? The Kings need Byfield to learn how to impose his will (something he isn't going to learn from Kopitar) and take over games. The kid isn't going to do this playing on the 3rd line with Brown.

In the big scheme of things, making the playoffs this year does not matter. It may matter to Robitaille and Blake, because their jobs may finally be on the line, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the development of the players who are the key to any future success the Kings may have on the ice.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Agree with your post, but Byfield almost did just that in his first game this season..remember? I know what it wasn't Pronger he was skating around, but he was inches from burying that and would have been very reminiscent of a young Kopitar.

I think it was Girard, because I remember thinking it was stellar for different reasons even though he's the anti-pronger, lol. G is a phenomenal skater so Byfield just blowing past him was amazing but then he looked like he was abusing a child instead of leaning into Pronger

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Byfield was poised to have a good start, as he was going to make the team by having a good camp and pre-season.
The game he broke his ankle, he was arguably the best player for the Kings that night. I have no doubt that he will make
a big impact next year. He's a legit talent.

It will be impossible for him to make a big impact at the moment, with 8-9 minutes and playing
with Brown and AA. Tonight - see how many times AA or 23 get him the puck in the ozone...they are the worst on this
team at making plays. Lemieux is even much better. The pass he made to Arty last game was better than I've seen from
AA or 23 all year. AA is pretty brutal...a few times a year, he can score a nice goal and even snipe a few,
but that doesn't cut it. 23 does absolutely nothing anymore. Give Kopi or Danault these 8 minutes with those 2 and
they too, would fail. 100%.

 

[Trash Panda]

Bland has pretty much nailed the crux of the argument coming from the “mismanagement crowd.

The front office is still hitched to the aging core, at the expensive of the development of our deeply talented prospect pool, while laboring under the delusion that this roster is a competitive playoff team. This includes bringing in, and standing by the absurdity that is Todd Maclellan.

It’s disheartening to say the least.

 

[Piston]

Of course I am serious. What has Kopitar done this season to convince you he should remain as the 1C, especially on the power play?

It's time to move on from the idea that Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are going to magically lead the Kings to any type of playoff success at anytime in the future. If Byfield isn't playing in 1C situations, how is he going to develop a 1C game and mentality? The Kings need Byfield to learn how to impose his will (something he isn't going to learn from Kopitar) and take over games. The kid isn't going to do this playing on the 3rd line with Brown.

In the big scheme of things, making the playoffs this year does not matter. It may matter to Robitaille and Blake, because their jobs may finally be on the line, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the development of the players who are the key to any future success the Kings may have on the ice.

Completely agree. If the Kings are going anywhere beyond sneaking into the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round, it is with the kids leading the way and the vets in a more supporting role. Danault is now the #1 center, and QB should play an elevated role, more minutes and with better linemates. Kopitar can still play a key role as a defensive specialist and taking key faceoffs, but Byfield needs to develop now. I like how Arthur has learned how to score dirty goals, but it's about time they used his greatest asset which is his shot, and he needs someone skilled to feed him the puck for one timers. Why Brown and AA are still filling roster spots is beyond me- there are kids killing it in Ontario what need to be up with the big club. All of this smells to me as Luc trying to keep his job by getting two playoff home games for extra revenue for AEG.

 

[Statto]

Kopitar is still the 1C. He is comfortably the leading scorer despite the poor team power play numbers.

Yes I want him to play fewer minutes and yes I want Byfield to have more minutes. Danault has been brilliant and is a great 2C but Kopitar still gets the tougher match ups. He’s not playing great but that doesn’t mean he’s done.

Yes the transition to a lesser role needs to happen but that will be a gradual process.

 

[KingsFan7824]

In the big scheme of things, making the playoffs this year does not matter. It may matter to Robitaille and Blake, because their jobs may finally be on the line, but it doesn't matter when it comes to the development of the players who are the key to any future success the Kings may have on the ice.

You cannot be that certain. You don't know how much or how little making the playoffs this year might affect the young guys. They could make it, and Kaliyev ends up with 7 goals in a 7 game series. Or he might not. But you cannot make such a call before it happens.

I'm sure you know the likelihood of this rebuild, no matter who is conducting it, or how they conduct it, ending in a Cup is on the low end. Just a Finals appearance is unlikely. How close was the ready to win 11-12 team to not even making the playoffs? How many moves after the big one to make them a contender were absolutely required before they were a true contender?

We really have to stop with all the certainly stuff.

Bland has pretty much nailed the crux of the argument coming from the “mismanagement crowd.

The front office is still hitched to the aging core, at the expensive of the development of our deeply talented prospect pool, while laboring under the delusion that this roster is a competitive playoff team. This includes bringing in, and standing by the absurdity that is Todd Maclellan.

It’s disheartening to say the least.

You know who was ok with incremental improvement? Lombardi. You know who got very lucky a player like Richards, even though he was starting to break down in Philly, becane available? Lombardi. You know who got even luckier that Carter cried his way out of Columbus, after the Jackets gave up a ton of future for him? Lombardi.

You know who tried selling us the idea of not just a breaking down, but a broken down Gagne as an answer for offense? Lombardi.

Dean Lombardi. The smartest m'fer in the room. That's absurd.

Nobody knows for sure how much or how little the prospects will develop. Because Brown is playing today, does not inherently mean Kaliyev won't scare 30 next year. Just because Kopitar and Danault are playing today, and might lead the team to an 0-4 sweep in the 1st rd, doesn't inherently mean Byfield won't score 80pts in 23-24, when he will be 21 years old.

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar is still the 1C. He is comfortably the leading scorer despite the poor team power play numbers.

Yes I want him to play fewer minutes and yes I want Byfield to have more minutes. Danault has been brilliant and is a great 2C but Kopitar still gets the tougher match ups. He’s not playing great but that doesn’t mean he’s done.

Yes the transition to a lesser role needs to happen but that will be a gradual process.

Kopitar has been the Kings' leading scorer for the last umpteen years. Where have the Kings finished in the standings over the period of time Kopitar has been on his current contract.

No one is saying Kopitar is done. In fact, he would make a great addition to a championship caliber team looking to add a very good 2C. The Kings should look into making such a deal and taking away McLellan's security blanket.

Sorry Todd, but you can't play Kopitar on the power play tonight.

Well, he is going to be the 1C on the power play.

I don't think so, he plays for Colorado now.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Why Brown and AA are still filling roster spots is beyond me- there are kids killing it in Ontario what need to be up with the big club. All of this smells to me as Luc trying to keep his job by getting two playoff home games for extra revenue for AEG.

I legitimately refuse to believe that the concept is beyond you. You really don't get how veteran players with one way multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts are on an NHL roster? You don't get why Brown hasn't retired mid-season on personal pride alone? If AA is so terrible and brings teammates down, who in the hell would want him in a trade?

Your personal dislike for Robitaille clouds your judgment, severely clouds it, if any of it is beyond your mental capacity.

Now if he Kings re-sign Brown, and there's been no idication other than the fans hatred of BLuc to even hint that such an event would happen, then not only should everyone be fired, but the franchise should be liquidated. But that Brown is still in the lineup each night, is not in any way absurd. How TM uses him might be, but that's different.

 

[Trash Panda]

You know who was ok with incremental improvement? Lombardi. You know who got very lucky a player like Richards, even though he was starting to break down in Philly, becane available? Lombardi. You know who got even luckier that Carter cried his way out of Columbus, after the Jackets gave up a ton of future for him? Lombardi.

You know who tried selling us the idea of not just a breaking down, but a broken down Gagne as an answer for offense? Lombardi.

Dean Lombardi. The smartest m'fer in the room. That's absurd.

Nobody knows for sure how much or how little the prospects will develop. Because Brown is playing today, does not inherently mean Kaliyev won't scare 30 next year. Just because Kopitar and Danault are playing today, and might lead the team to an 0-4 sweep in the 1st rd, doesn't inherently mean Byfield won't score 80pts in 23-24, when he will be 21 years old.

That’s all fine an dandy, but:

You didn’t address any point that was made.

That was a side tangent about incremental improvement (which I’m entirely for, and the current model is entirely preventing), trades (of which I’m absolutely not criticizing the current organization), UFA signings (where Blake has done a very good job), and hypothetical playoff performances.

All that’s being said by a good number of people, is that by holding on to the glory years with these aging vets is not the path to the promised land.

Dean Lombardi didn’t try to re-tread behind Demitra and Lubo. Let contracts expire of those who aren’t going to be here when the youth is actually ready to compete, and then let that same youth go through the growing pains without the misplaced expectation of playoff success.

Development is paramount right now, or else we risk missing the whole benefit of stockpiling these high picks.

Development, not results, is what should be the primary concern.

 

[KINGS17]

You cannot be that certain. You don't know how much or how little making the playoffs this year might affect the young guys. They could make it, and Kaliyev ends up with 7 goals in a 7 game series. Or he might not. But you cannot make such a call before it happens.

I'm sure you know the likelihood of this rebuild, no matter who is conducting it, or how they conduct it, ending in a Cup is on the low end. Just a Finals appearance is unlikely. How close was the ready to win 11-12 team to not even making the playoffs? How many moves after the big one to make them a contender were absolutely required before they were a true contender?

We really have to stop with all the certainly stuff.

I am certain the core you have constantly said cannot be moved, isn't going to have any playoff success for the Kings. So, I can be certain that going in another direction is the better option.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kopitar has been the Kings' leading scorer for the last umpteen years. Where have the Kings finished in the standings over the period of time Kopitar has been on his current contract.

No one is saying Kopitar is done. In fact, he would make a great addition to a championship caliber team looking to add a very good 2C. The Kings should look into making such a deal and taking away McLellan's security blanket.

Sorry Todd, but you can't play Kopitar on the power play tonight.

Well, he is going to be the 1C on the power play.

I don't think so, he plays for Colorado now.

This is not a movie. It's also not a small market baseball team working in a no cap environment. And the Avs are gong to get Giroux, who as of right now they don't have to account for contractually beyond this season. That's the smarter move today. Nobody is taking Kopitar's term, and he still gets plenty of say where he would go. And of course the Kings are in the race, and it's that silly and unrealistic expectation popping up again, that a team fighting for a spot is going to trade important players out because they're old. No, it's not going to happen. Let it go.

 

[Schmooley]

This is not a movie. It's also not a small market baseball team working in a no cap environment. And the Avs are gong to get Giroux, who as of right now they don't have to account for contractually beyond this season. That's the smarter move today. Nobody is taking Kopitar's term, and he still gets plenty of say where he would go. And of course the Kings are in the race, and it's that silly and unrealistic expectation popping up again, that a team fighting for a spot is going to trade important players out because they're old. No, it's not going to happen. Let it go.

I think Kopitar with retention can bring back a pretty nice haul.

 

[Statto]

Kopitar has been the Kings' leading scorer for the last umpteen years. Where have the Kings finished in the standings over the period of time Kopitar has been on his current contract.

No one is saying Kopitar is done. In fact, he would make a great addition to a championship caliber team looking to add a very good 2C. The Kings should look into making such a deal and taking away McLellan's security blanket.

Sorry Todd, but you can't play Kopitar on the power play tonight.

Well, he is going to be the 1C on the power play.

I don't think so, he plays for Colorado now.

The guy that posted Immediately before me pretty much said he was done. Hence my post.

 

[KingsFan7824]

All that’s being said by a good number of people, is that by holding on to the glory years with these aging vets is not the path to the promised land.

Dean Lombardi didn’t try to re-tread behind Demitra and Lubo. Let contracts expire of those who aren’t going to be here when the youth is actually ready to compete, and then let that same youth go through the growing pains without the misplaced expectation of playoff success.

They're not holding onto the glory years with the vets. They gave long dumbass contracts to Quick and Brown after the first Cup, and then were in 1st place when Kopitar re-signed, and had a Norris kevel Doughty when he re-signed. It's a silly notion that any franchise would willingly do anything different given the same curcumstances. It's a topic that's been talked about to death, and it's never not been a silly proposition.

Demitra and Visnovsky also has no success here. I'm pretty sure there were questions of whether or not DL was ruining the franchise by trading such a good guy in Visnovsky just before his trade clause kicked in. How could you do that to someone? People aren't going to want to play in LA if the GM treats his players like that.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I am certain the core you have constantly said cannot be moved, isn't going to have any playoff success for the Kings. So, I can be certain that going in another direction is the better option.

Did you miss everything that happened between Sept 2018 and July of 2021?

I think Kopitar with retention can bring back a pretty nice haul.

Communism sounds good in theory too.

 

[KINGS17]

They're not holding onto the glory years with the vets. They gave long dumbass contracts to Quick and Brown after the first Cup, and then were in 1st place when Kopitar re-signed, and had a Norris kevel Doughty when he re-signed. It's a silly notion that any franchise would willingly do anything different given the same curcumstances. It's a topic that's been talked about to death, and it's never not been a silly proposition.

Demitra and Visnovsky also has no success here. I'm pretty sure there were questions of whether or not DL was ruining the franchise by trading such a good guy in Visnovsky just before his trade clause kicked in. How could you do that to someone? People aren't going to want to play in LA if the GM treats his players like that.

No, what is a silly notion is that hockey people can't see the writing on the wall and didn't do something different given the same circumstances.

Your reasoning regarding most franchises would just sit there and choose what the Kings have chosen doesn't hold water. Teams can and do move on from aging stars.

Free agents have never considered LA as a great destination, that is unless you are an over the hill star looking to cash in on this franchise's penchant for foolishness for one last deal while enjoying the beach in your last few seasons.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

No, what is a silly notion is that hockey people can't see the writing on the wall and didn't do something different given the same circumstances.

Your reasoning regarding most franchises would just sit there and choose what the Kings have chosen doesn't hold water. Teams can and do move on from aging stars.

Free agents have never considered LA as a great destination, that is unless you are an over the hill star looking to cash in on this franchise's penchant for foolishness for one last deal while enjoying the beach in your last few seasons.

You say teams can and do move on from aging stars......give some examples.....please.... without it being the players choice to move on....what teams, what players? Kane, Toews, still in CHI, Ovehckin, still in WSH, Crosby, Malkin, still in PIT, Benn, still in DAL, so....again without it being the players choice...who?

 

[tbrown33]

AA 100% is worse which is saying something. He drags down every single line that he plays on. Because he is strictly an offense only freelancer. He doesn't play within the system, cheats away from the puck and is rarely in good position to help his linemates. That line was much more dangerous and effective when Grundstrom was in his spot. They actually looked a part of the team philosophy. Now that line is just garbage. But Blake made a 3 million dollar mistake and essentially they're forced to play him somewhere.

Grundstrom has gotten more undeservedly benched this season than anyone else and it's not even close

 

[Piston]

I legitimately refuse to believe that the concept is beyond you. You really don't get how veteran players with one way multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts are on an NHL roster? You don't get why Brown hasn't retired mid-season on personal pride alone? If AA is so terrible and brings teammates down, who in the hell would want him in a trade?

Your personal dislike for Robitaille clouds your judgment, severely clouds it, if any of it is beyond your mental capacity.

Now if he Kings re-sign Brown, and there's been no idication other than the fans hatred of BLuc to even hint that such an event would happen, then not only should everyone be fired, but the franchise should be liquidated. But that Brown is still in the lineup each night, is not in any way absurd. How TM uses him might be, but that's different.

Do I dislike Luc, yes, just look at my avatar. But, I want to see the Kings win more than I want to get rid of Robitaille. If, the Kings win another Cup and Luc gets the credit, I'm perfectly happy to eat crow.

Is Brown going to retire mid-season. Of course not, you are correct that he has too much pride. But, does that mean he should pay every game? The guy can't make or receive a pass anymore- look at the last game for evidence. Sure, keep him on the roster, play him in and out of the lineup as appropriate, but he needs to get used to being a healthy scratch.

As to AA, you are again correct, he is untradable. Does that mean he should not be in the press box? He has no future on this team. Why should he block Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD etc.?

It's time to play and develop the kids as many posters who know far more about the sport than I do have suggested. The future is in 2-3 years, not now.

 

[cyclones22]

Byfield is only struggling because he’s dragging around 400lbs of garbage with him for 9 minutes a game. His only 9 minutes.

And this is what kills me. Let's make this 19 year old rookie carry these two guys. Any line combination with Kopitar that INCLUDES Brown, takes a large hit in effectiveness. The numbers and eye test back it up. But Byfield is supposed to be good enough at his age and experience to turn lemons into lemonade? It's the same thing with AA. Danault DOMINATES with just about any winger except when AA was on his wing. Where his metrics dropped by 10%. So our best 2 centers can't carry these guys separately, but Byfield needs to carry BOTH at the same time in 9 minutes of TOI? GTFO of here.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And this is what kills me. Let's make this 19 year old rookie carry these two guys. Any line combination with Kopitar that INCLUDES Brown, takes a large hit in effectiveness. The numbers and eye test back it up. But Byfield is supposed to be good enough at his age and experience to turn lemons into lemonade? It's the same thing with AA. Danault DOMINATES with just about any winger except when AA was on his wing. Where his metrics dropped by 10%. So our best 2 centers can't carry these guys separately, but Byfield needs to carry BOTH at the same time in 9 minutes of TOI? GTFO of here.

You are assuming though that Byfield is being judged on results....not process....why? Do you think Blake, TM don't know he's only getting 9 minutes, don't know he's 19 years old, etc? Why would you assume YOUR BENCHMARK AS A FAN....is the same benchmark they are using, to determine if Byfield, had a good or a bad game?