Over the past 3 seasons, Chychrun is 32nd in ES scoring among all blue liners in the league(tied with Dougie Hamilton) and he is 2nd in goals just behind Makar.
Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII
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Over the past 3 seasons, Chychrun is 32nd in ES scoring among all blue liners in the league(tied with Dougie Hamilton) and he is 2nd in goals just behind Makar.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
What is the worst case scenario with this trade other than the Kings somehow cratering like SJ did with the Stutzle pick? Which would be shocking with adding Fiala and JC to a team that had 99 points. The most likely result of this pick is anywhere from 18-26, which is going to add another middling prospect to a system loaded with them.
Turcotte has had multiple concussions and very likely has a middle 6 ceiling. It’s very unlikely he has an NHL role at any point this season. He still has some value, and has a future role in the league as a character guy with some skill, but what is his long-term upside? Does it warrant making an “easy pass” on a player who addresses huge needs at the NHL level?
Durzi, again a good player with value. But you have Doughty, Roy and Clarke as your 3 RHD for the foreseeable future. I like Durzi and agree he was great last year, but this is all about asset management. Since his great play last year Doughty has returned and our #7 OA pick from last year looks like he can contribute at 19 with a cap hit less than a million with long-term star potential. Moving Durzi for a LHD makes his path easier and the roster more balanced.
Walker is a 28 year old 3rd pairing defender coming off a torn ACL that plays a position where the organization is strongest both at the NHL and in the pipeline. Not a terrible player but what is his long-term upside?
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Yes and has played terrible defense against top tier comp, is super brittle and tell me again how many times he’s managed to finish the season?
Again, for the millionth phuken time.. the guys has had major lower body issues throughout his career and has gone on record and admitted to still suffer from knee pain!
Herby
How could Blake have known?
His offensive production certainly does put him in the #2 d-man discussion. There has been one defenseman in the league better at scoring goals the last 3 years. I know this forum has for years hated offensive defenseman but a guy with his offensive potential is extremely valuable. Especially to a team like the Kings who lack talent and finishers.
There is not anyone in JJ or my package that is a massive loss for the Kings, the biggest risk to ruin is the 2023 pick being a star down the road. But based on where most would have the Kings picking it’s unlikely that pick produces a star. It would likely be another solid prospect with some flaws, we are overflowing with guys like that.
What kind of defenseman would you expect from either of those packages? The Kings certainly are not getting Makar, Hughes, Fox or any “elite” caliber defenseman, they aren’t even getting guys like Theodore, Heiskanen or Dobson for a package that includes some combo of Durzi, Turcotte, Iafallo, Vilardi, Walker, 1st. It’s just not happening, none of those guys are highly valuable trade pieces. Elite #1 caliber defenseman you are talking about rarely hit the market and if one does the Kings would have to offer pieces like Clarke, Byfield and Kaliyev.
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King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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Until young players actually start taking over the team, I'm averse to trading top picks (especially in a reportedly deep draft) for an injury-prone defenseman.
Especially with Hiller's system historically being about overloading the front of the net, the expected return is closer to be less impactful for a defenseman whose trade is scoring goals from the point.
He played a full season the year before last. Also, last season he had the second best rel xGF among regular defensemen on the Yotes at +2.49%. For comparison, Durzi had a -3.42 xGF%, which was only ahead of Bjornfot. I don't think it is fair to say he was terrible against top tier comp, he has been playing on a bad team.
I think the Kings seriously are seriously lacking in offense produced from the blue line, Chychrun could be a huge addition. Injuries are definitely a concern, but injuries were also a concern with Muzzin.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
The draft pick is the most valuable thing out of any players offered in this deal, that is true.
But we also have to look at the fact that right now that asset is 17 years old, if it’s later than where the Kings picked last year the likelihood of that asset ever being impactful with Kopitar and Doughty is almost 0. Even if the player becomes a very good player at 21 that takes you out of the prime years of Danault, Kempe, Moore, Arvidsson and Roy.
If the Kings hadn’t switched from a youth rebuild to add prime players I might agree. But clearly the strategy is to try and win within the next 3-4 years before Doughty and Kopitar ride off into the sunset and the rest of these guys hit or near the wrong side of 30.
A 24 year old high ceiling player with proven elite production fits that team more than a 17 year old future asset does. And yes, there are injury concerns, but that is baked into the cost. You wouldn’t be getting JC for these discussed packages if he had a better injury history. It’s a lot like the Justin Williams trade.
YAYSAY
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2016
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I don't think any team is taking Turcotte as a valuable piece right now.
No one is doubting his offensive prowess but rather his perceived brittleness, also my comment is valid that he isn’t a #2 Dman. Offense alone doesn’t make you that but as you mentioned he brings something we sorely lack. He’ll literally be our PP weapon as his defense is much behind his offense..
- Mar 9, 2002
- 7,196
- 4,925
Then you make that trade 100 % of the time. We are going to start loosing some of our youth to waivers soon so a quantity for quality trade for a position of need from a position of strength works.
unicornpig
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- Dec 8, 2017
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whats the worst that can happen? idk chychrun being injury prone for the remainder of his contract, turcotte reaching his potential. i already proposed 1st kupari and durzi in the main thread. i already think thats an overpayment, just not willing to deal turcotte considering how poorly our forwards have developed.
Chychrun plays less than Gaborik did, that's not a good baseline. He's completely made of glass.
He's had one outlier season, otherwise, his production is similar to what we got out of Martinez when he was here. He's not a crazy good offensive guy, his vision is so-so and he's just OK defensively. But he does have a cannon and we all know that a good PP would take the Kings up a tier.
If I traded a first for him, it's not going to be in a good draft. I have no problem giving up some of the assets that have been mentioned for him though. He's intriguing, but right now I wouldn't even put him on par with Muzzin.
He's had one outlier season, otherwise, his production is similar to what we got out of Martinez when he was here. He's not a crazy good offensive guy, his vision is so-so and he's just OK defensively. But he does have a cannon and we all know that a good PP would take the Kings up a tier.
If I traded a first for him, it's not going to be in a good draft. I have no problem giving up some of the assets that have been mentioned for him though. He's intriguing, but right now I wouldn't even put him on par with Muzzin.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I'm liking a lot of these posts because I think it's a really legitimate discussion at this point, I could be swayed either way and i'm glad I'm not the one that has to make the decision BUT
If I'm entering a bidding war, I stay the f*** out on Chychrun. WAY too much of a gamble on injuries. Reasonable price? Absolutely. But not bidding against true contenders (who will get full value out of his reduced cap) on him.
So was OEL at one point and he's an unmitigated tire fire on a real team. SOMEONE has to score on AZ. Let's not overthink it.
If I'm entering a bidding war, I stay the f*** out on Chychrun. WAY too much of a gamble on injuries. Reasonable price? Absolutely. But not bidding against true contenders (who will get full value out of his reduced cap) on him.
So was OEL at one point and he's an unmitigated tire fire on a real team. SOMEONE has to score on AZ. Let's not overthink it.
Acquiring Chychrun blocks development of Clarke. How is this a good thing? Clarke should split pp time with Doughty. If the Kings get Chychrun, either Clarke doesn't get regular pp time or the Kings are reducing the effectiveness of Chychrun after trading a boat load of assets to aquire him. Neither is good.
If the Kings trade for a defenseman, it should be a more physical player than Chychrun.
Trading spare defensemen for a goalie prospect or picks makes sense too. The picks could be used to draft, aquire players at the deadline, or move up in the draft to get their guy.
If the Kings trade for a defenseman, it should be a more physical player than Chychrun.
Trading spare defensemen for a goalie prospect or picks makes sense too. The picks could be used to draft, aquire players at the deadline, or move up in the draft to get their guy.
- Nov 19, 2004
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The Kings use one D on the pp so handedness doesn't matter. Additionally, if the Kings pair offensive defensemen with defensive defensemen at even strength like they usually do, then the Kings will have 3 offensive defensemen either with or without Chychrun. If TMac played vets over prospects at forward, why would Clarke get time over Chychrun? If Clarke is better than Chychrun, then the Kings just spent a lot for a third pairing d when they already have Durzi, Spense, and Walker that can do that for a smaller cap hit.
bmr
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2013
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I’d rather trade for Soucy. We have plenty of offense with Clarke and Spence. Need a big bodied LHD that is defensively responsible.
Ollie Weeks
the sea does not dream of you
- Feb 28, 2008
- 13,324
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I’m of the opinion that Chychrun, if acquired, shouldn’t even be used primarily on the PP. Let Doughty and Clarke run that. I think Chychrun is capable of 10-15 goals a year in a second pairing role at ES. OEL in front of Chychrun helped chew up the harder minutes - we currently have Doughty/Anderson. It could work, spectacularly so.
However. Couple major issues I have: Firstly, he’s always hurt. Hell he’s hurt right now. That should affect the price, or I want salary retention.
Second, this trade might be it. This will likely exhaust our tradeable assets in the pipeline to the point where it’s the last major upgrade we can afford for a while. It SHOULD be all we need, with letting the youth fill in the depth holes, but the powder is no longer dry, so to speak. Are we comfortable making this guy the “all in” buy?
Genuinely asking, I’m on the fence.
However. Couple major issues I have: Firstly, he’s always hurt. Hell he’s hurt right now. That should affect the price, or I want salary retention.
Second, this trade might be it. This will likely exhaust our tradeable assets in the pipeline to the point where it’s the last major upgrade we can afford for a while. It SHOULD be all we need, with letting the youth fill in the depth holes, but the powder is no longer dry, so to speak. Are we comfortable making this guy the “all in” buy?
Genuinely asking, I’m on the fence.
mysterman2
Registered User
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
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You'd be hard pressed to find a trade Blake has made that wasn't at least fair. So in terms of price, there's little reason to assume he'd overpay, whatever the particulars of the deal would be. At that point, it's whether or not you want the guy that's coming in.
If all your offense comes from RHD, and you still have what looks to be 7 RHD options for both now and the future, and 2 of them are Doughty and Clarke, and RHD don't traditionally play on the left side all that often(maybe because teams don't usually have a ton of them, so what they have they need to play on the right side), there's probably a deal in there that could make sense.
Blake's not in a desperate position right now though. A deal here would be about changing a potential point of attack, more than a we need _____ type of thing.
If all your offense comes from RHD, and you still have what looks to be 7 RHD options for both now and the future, and 2 of them are Doughty and Clarke, and RHD don't traditionally play on the left side all that often(maybe because teams don't usually have a ton of them, so what they have they need to play on the right side), there's probably a deal in there that could make sense.
Blake's not in a desperate position right now though. A deal here would be about changing a potential point of attack, more than a we need _____ type of thing.
- Mar 9, 2002
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But if we roll 2 even PP units like we should it is a non issue. We are starting to get the hourses up front and giving them Doughty, JC, and Clarke to the backend we may actually have a threat.
PP - Kopitar, Kempe, Fiala, Doughty, Chychrun
PP - Byfield, Kaliyev, Vilardi, Arvidsson, Clarke
Or mix and match. Just give them even attempts and time. Every one of those players above ooze offence or offensive potential.
What we don’t see is the Danault, Iafallo’s, Moore’s, Grundstrum’s. Although these guys can score they are our Short handed warriors that save our shooters kings and legs. Yes they will get a bit of PP time here and there if a player above struggles or is injured, sat, etc.
The only negative thing about Chychrun is the injury history. If Turcotte heads back as part of the deal both teams take that gamble.
Only so many spots on a team and our waiver monster will start rearing it’s ugly head soon.
No Name The Nameless
Registered User
Can you imagine what his statistical output would be if he could play a full season?
2D on the pp does not fit how the current coaches and most other NHL teams operate. It would be a solution, but likely would not happen.
Acquiring Chychrun limits future moves from a cap stand point as his cap hit is larger than all King defensemen other than Drew. Chychrun never being able to finish a season is a problem if the Kings want to contend since he might not be on their postseason roster. Add in the cost of players/prospects and a first rounder in a deep draft, I think the Kings would shorten any window for contention with this trade and still need a physical defenseman and a young goalie prospect.
Essentially, I see the Kings as having a glut of offensive defensemen so it is better to use the surplus to get a player that fills a different role that can't be filled internally.
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