Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Chazz Reinhold]

I already said Liljegren is a fair one, too.

What some appear to be ignoring is that Durzi has an agent who will be doing what he can to get the best deal he can that his client wants.

Durzi spent half a season filling in for Doughty as getting the most minutes for an RD. He put up better numbers than Liljegren and comparable numbers to the ones I listed.

Undoubtedly, the Kings would be wise using Liljegren as a comp. But as mentioned, these are negotiations. No player will just agree to a lower contract because of one comp that has a similar number of games played. Just like no team will agree to a higher contract because a player has produced similar to others.

To me, Durzi is worth $2 million. That's a good salary for what he does and brings. The biggest reason many are saying no is because of the Kings' salary cap situation. If the Kings had, say, $8 million in cap space, do you think the $600k difference we're discussing here would really be going on?

Walsh might be a pain in the ass and he has every right to demand as much as possible for Durzi. They just don’t have much, if any, leverage here. They don’t want to sign for what the Kings are offering? Durzi won’t get paid then at all until he does. The Kings can survive without him right now. Durzi can’t survive without the Kings.

 

[tbrown33]

Blake hasn't been a sell high guy. Maybe Muzzin? Although that season was more forced on him than anything else.

I doubt he'll start doing that with Durzi. He brings things the Kings don't have. Finished 2nd on the team in PIM's. He's fiesty. He's got some offensive talent that is different than Doughty's. Much more consistently creative.

Blake will take advantage of cap issues with other teams, but with the Kings roster he's overly patient if he's anything. He'll wait until there's not really another option. Or at least that's what he's done up to this point.

he traded Toffoli after scoring a hatty

 

[Statto]

I just don't understand why anyone would think this is 'sell high' time on Durzi, or that this is his high-water mark.

Everyone in the NHL saw that while it was admirable that he played 20+ minutes in Doughty's absence that his 'true' role is far below that and that he'll excel in depth. They're not going to treat him like a 1st pairing dman in trade, they're going to treat him appropriately, like a depth-role PP specialist, a Colin Miller or Kevin Shattenkirk at best.

I think his best is yet to come and that last season surely seasoned him. The extra exposure was nice sure but that also means his warts were ALSO on display. And I say that as a guy who has become a big fan on his sheer guts.

Just to clarify my point on Durzi and a (unlikely) potential trade and btw I’m not assuming you were replying to me. I’m neither for or against moving him but that actually applies to about 3/4 of the roster.

If the move improves the team (be that talent, prospects and/or the cap situation) then it has to be considered. Unsigned contracts and a sell high situation make such moves more likely due to the uncertainty that goes with the unsigned contract.

However, my approval or disapproval on such a thing entirely depends on what comes back our way. I’m sure ultimately that applies to us all.

 

[TruKingFan]

Between $1.7M-$1.9M per year on say a 2-year bridge should be acceptable to both parties you would think. Durzi has really no leverage at this time so Blake may be absolutely sticking to the “required” QO but can easily be worth this contract.

Just to clarify my point on Durzi and a (unlikely) potential trade and btw I’m not assuming you were replying to me. I’m neither for or against moving him but that actually applies to about 3/4 of the roster.

If the move improves the team (be that talent, prospects and/or the cap situation) then it has to be considered. Unsigned contracts and a sell high situation make such moves more likely due to the uncertainty that goes with the unsigned contract.

However, my approval or disapproval on such a thing entirely depends on what comes back our way. I’m sure ultimately that applies to us all.

I feel like Walker needs to be the one traded with Durzi and Spence behind him even if Blake waits until he’s 100% by mid season to do so.

 

[King'sPawn]

Walsh might be a pain in the ass and he has every right to demand as much as possible for Durzi. They just don’t have much, if any, leverage here. They don’t want to sign for what the Kings are offering? Durzi won’t get paid then at all until he does. The Kings can survive without him right now. Durzi can’t survive without the Kings.

Saying "sign this because you need us more than we need you" usually doesn't go over too well with negotiations or with employee relations.

And, considering Durzi just played 1RD for the Kings last year after a slew of injuries, including Doughty, he might have more leverage than you want to give him credit for.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Just tossing this out there for funsies...

The Alex Edler contract was a brilliant little piece of cap negotiation.

The end result is the team signed a player to a contract that will see his cap hit for the 2022-23 season be just 50% of his actual salary and push the other half into the 2023-24 season when they have more flexibility and space.

The fact that the organization has people in the right positions to be familiar enough with the cap, creative enough to see the option and diplomatic enough to pitch it to Edler's representation in a convincing way should be seen as a huge win.

The fact that Edler and his representation was receptive to the idea is also a huge win.



I bring it all up just to say... contract negotiations are way more complex than ever gets discussed and the people working on them are familiar with the options and opportunities on the table and creative enough to find a way to make it all work.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Just to clarify my point on Durzi and a (unlikely) potential trade and btw I’m not assuming you were replying to me. I’m neither for or against moving him but that actually applies to about 3/4 of the roster.

If the move improves the team (be that talent, prospects and/or the cap situation) then it has to be considered. Unsigned contracts and a sell high situation make such moves more likely due to the uncertainty that goes with the unsigned contract.

However, my approval or disapproval on such a thing entirely depends on what comes back our way. I’m sure ultimately that applies to us all.

Yeah wasn't at you in particular, there are just quite a few people trying to move him as if it's a 'sell high' moment when I'm not so sure it is, in addition to all the other stuff, like the over-exuberance to hurry up and move ANOTHER RHD just because.

I'm obviously for trades that improve the team but thank goodness Blake is patient because if this forum had their way we'd already be down Faber, Grans, and Durzi.

 

[Sol]

All that wordplay for Edler when we could just give a much better dman in Spence a shot instead.

I’m not thrilled that Edler is back after he got absolutely sodomized by the Oilers.

I look at all of the players as how they fare in the playoffs against likely competition.

Edler was by far the worst. He was getting sodomized nonstop that god forbid anyone cast a black light on him after the series. He would shine brighter than the sun.

Imagine sitting Spence (essentially Voynov) for Walker/Edler. Tragic.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

 

[All The Kings Men]

All that wordplay for Edler when we could just give a much better dman in Spence a shot instead.

I’m not thrilled that Edler is back after he got absolutely sodomized by the Oilers.

I look at all of the players as how they fare in the playoffs against likely competition.

Edler was by far the worst. He was getting sodomized nonstop that god forbid anyone cast a black light on him after the series. He would shine brighter than the sun.

Imagine sitting Spence (essentially Voynov) for Walker/Edler. Tragic.

The point is not Alex Edler.

The point is that contract negotiations are complicated and the options are vast and speculating wildly about the details of those negotiations based on next to no information is irresponsible.

 

[BigBrown]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

How about this f***ing team right here. Look at these f***ing guys.

Love it!

 

[2-4 Slashin]

I’ll raise you the following…
Kopitar over 80pts
Kempe and Fiala over 70pts
Danault with a repeat of his debut
Iafallo-Byfield-Kaliyev give the Kings 3 top lines
One of Clarke/Spence/Grans makes Durzi expendable for a big piece we didn’t consider
Mikey Anderson shows shades being Darius Kasparaitis 2.0
This is TMac’s last season as HC
We win the Pacific and make a deep run

If those things happen, there’s no way management let’s TMac walk.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

Glad to see everyone back and no hard feelings between any of them (or so it seems).

 

[King'sPawn]

The point is not Alex Edler.

The point is that contract negotiations are complicated and the options are vast and speculating wildly about the details of those negotiations based on next to no information is irresponsible.

What has been said here that's irresponsible? There was a question of "what's taking so long?" The answer was "negotiations". And as you mentioned, negotiations are complex. It's not like anybody is saying that Durzi's threatening to walk if he doesn't get Doughty money, or saying the Kings are threatening to trade him to Arizona if he refuses to sign league minimum pay.

We, as fans, don't have access to the negotiations. And it's the middle of August. Aside from the WJC, there's very little to talk about. We are speculating, based on what information we have, what those contracts could be. How is it anymore irresponsible than speculating the Kings would try to sign Philip Danault after their season ended?

RFAs get used during mediation for each side to present their case. There was a good discussion going on regarding what the contract may look like and what both sides may be hoping to get. Calling people irresponsible for having a reasonable discussion, based on the information we have access to, is borderline gatekeeping.

Maybe it's best we shut down the forums or create a poll to determine if a topic is appropriate to discuss?

 

[All The Kings Men]

Maybe it's best we shut down the forums or create a poll to determine if a topic is appropriate to discuss?

See... that's just being melodramatic.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Saying "sign this because you need us more than we need you" usually doesn't go over too well with negotiations or with employee relations.

And, considering Durzi just played 1RD for the Kings last year after a slew of injuries, including Doughty, he might have more leverage than you want to give him credit for.

I didn’t say the Kings should expressly say "sign this because you need us more than we need you.” I was pointing out the reality of the situation. The Kings don’t have to say anything if Walsh is presenting unreasonable offers for a player with less than one full season in the NHL.

Durzi played admirably for a handful of games with Doughty out. No one’s disputing that. That’s just unlikely to give him much leverage in a negotiation where he can’t go to arbitration and other teams can’t affect the pricing with an offer sheet. The Kings don’t have to bend at all here.

I would not be shocked to see his deal come in around $1.6m to $1.8m for one or two years.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

Love it, all these careful poses, then doughty looking goof.

 

[King'sPawn]

See... that's just being melodramatic.

This isn't specific to you, but this is the latest example. I'm just seeing a variety of topics which largely get discussed maturely, only to be told a variety of reasons why it's bad to discuss it, or how uninformed we are. So what's the solution? Either we keep discussing irresponsibly and ignorantly or we go through a vetting process of what we should and shouldn't talk about.

I didn’t say the Kings should expressly say "sign this because you need us more than we need you.” I was pointing out the reality of the situation. The Kings don’t have to say anything if Walsh is presenting unreasonable offers for a player with less than one full season in the NHL.

Durzi played admirably for a handful of games with Doughty out. No one’s disputing that. That’s just unlikely to give him much leverage in a negotiation where he can’t go to arbitration and other teams can’t affect the pricing with an offer sheet. The Kings don’t have to bend at all here.

I would not be shocked to see his deal come in around $1.6m to $1.8m for one or two years.

That's fair. I think he's worth $2 million at least, based on the crack research team I have employed (composed of me, myself, and I). But they do have options to offer him less, and there are creative ways to make a lower cap hit more appealing. Unfortunately, Durzi isn't eligible for performance bonuses which could defer some of the cap hit.

 

[KINGS17]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

Quick between Sutter and Lombardi, and I am not surprised. I still remember the story Dean tells about Quick when he played in the ECHL at Reading. Dean was watching one of Quick's games. Reading won, but he hadn't played particularly well.

Ah, here's the story...

Kings’ Quick fix has deflected failed goalie history

EL SEGUNDO – Back in New England, he is still known as Jon Quick. But there is no confusion. “In the middle of practice, he would announce, ‘Nobody is scoring on me in the next 10…

www.ocregister.com

Kings general manager Dean Lombardi saw Quick at UMass, “where he stood on his head all the time, where his fundamentals were atrocious,” and also at Reading, Mass., in the low-minor East Coast Hockey League. He attended one practice to see Quick, but then Quick didn’t attend the practice.

“He had a long way to go, he was young and immature,” Lombardi said. “But I always saw the competitiveness. One night he came out of the locker room after a game, his shoes were untied, and I asked him how he played. He said, ‘Doesn’t matter as long as you get the W.’

“He plays to win and because of that, he plays well. He doesn’t play well and then hopes to win. There’s a difference.”

 

[Docgonzo]

Wow.

Seeing Lombardi holding a beer leaning on Quickie is exactly how I needed to start my weekend

I took a gander and didn’t see, Voynov (understandably), Penner (also understandably) and Gagne…maybe I just didn’t recognize Gagne anymore. Or am I wrong on these.

 

[BringTheReign]

I took a gander and didn’t see, Voynov (understandably), Penner (also understandably) and Gagne…maybe I just didn’t recognize Gagne anymore. Or am I wrong on these.

I thought Gagne was to the right of Brownie, but I think that's actually Westgarth.

Richards is above Mitchell and left of Brown, right? The guy who Greener has his hand on his shoulder.

 

[cyclones22]

Yes someone post a high quality version of that pic. My old man eyes are making it difficult to tell who is who on my phone lol

 

[Choralone]

Yes someone post a high quality version of that pic. My old man eyes are making it difficult to tell who is who on my phone lol

I downloaded it, zoomed in on it, and could only identify the obvious ones. So it's more than my old man eyes - it's my old man brain.

 

[Sol]

The point is not Alex Edler.

The point is that contract negotiations are complicated and the options are vast and speculating wildly about the details of those negotiations based on next to no information is irresponsible.

No I totally get that. I was just being tongue in cheek about the Kings going through a behind the scenes process that seems more complex than it seems for a player they most likely do not need whatsoever.

Again big love to you for being on here and interacting. Certainly doesn’t go unnoticed

 

[KINGS17]

I thought Gagne was to the right of Brownie, but I think that's actually Westgarth.

Richards is above Mitchell and left of Brown, right? The guy who Greener has his hand on his shoulder.

Yup, and that's Greene giving Richards the fake punch to the jaw.

Mitchell still looks like he could play and commit justifiable homicide.