Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[kingsfan]

I was referencing his MVP/playoff fizzle out season as a “sell high” marker, yes.

Never said a word about the ease of making that deal happen, possible suitors, or even threw out an idea of a dance partner. Just said that it would be ideal, and I’d stand by it.

The kings were obviously not going to win a damn thing with the core of that particular team, and blowing it up after that season by shipping off Kopitar at his highest perceived value would have been ideal.

Even if it were a good idea to move him at that point, which I'm not, what teams move guys like Kopitar when they going into a period where they should be rebuilding unless that player specifically asks for it? Guy just completed his 12th season as a King and is a legend, nevermind the NMC. Even if he had no NMC he's not likely getting moved unless he wants to be.

That said, the guy is still our top point producer -by a fair margin- and on pace for 72 points even after we went through a rebuild and are now a playoff contender again so it shows holding onto him to be part of the next cup window may not be a bad idea.

Yeah this is my beef as well. If Kopitar was played more like a #2 center at this point I bet he's look a lot better, but our coach is a moron so that's not gonna happen.

And who should Tmac play ahead of Kopitar? Who is more like a number one center than Kopitar that he has at his disposal?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Edler turns 36 in April. Fun fact, his full name is Ulf Niklas Alexander Edler.

funner fact: Edler is actually pronounced 'EEdler'

 

[bland]

Even if it were a good idea to move him at that point, which I'm not, what teams move guys like Kopitar when they going into a period where they should be rebuilding unless that player specifically asks for it? Guy just completed his 12th season as a King and is a legend, nevermind the NMC. Even if he had no NMC he's not likely getting moved unless he wants to be.

That said, the guy is still our top point producer -by a fair margin- and on pace for 72 points even after we went through a rebuild and are now a playoff contender again so it shows holding onto him to be part of the next cup window may not be a bad idea.



And who should Tmac play ahead of Kopitar? Who is more like a number one center than Kopitar that he has at his disposal?

Kopitar is fine as the #1 for now. Problem is he is also being deployed as the #3C. He is the first choice for too many situations at this age and it has lessened his impact in all of them.

 

[Bandit]

Kopitar is fine as the #1 for now. Problem is he is also being deployed as the #3C. He is the first choice for too many situations at this age and it has lessened his impact in all of them.

This exactly.

 

[kingsfan]

Curious how much ice time people think Kopitar should get. This year he's averaging 21:11 a game, which is exactly the same as the previous year and he's actually played less than that in six of the past ten games.

In 2019-2020 it was 21:02 and in 2018-2019 it was 22:18 a game. The year before was 22:05. His ice time this year falls in line with what it's been for years now (likely his entire career if I go back further) and his production is in line with past years too. Age going up does not necessarily mean his ice time needs to go down, if he's capable of playing those minutes still, let him.

 

[tny760]

if he's capable of playing those minutes still, let him.

i think that's kind of the crux of this conversation..

in my opinion, he's not capable of playing those minutes any more.

 

[kingsfan]

i think that's kind of the crux of this conversation..

in my opinion, he's not capable of playing those minutes any more.

Fair to question it. Why do you feel that way?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Fair to question it. Why do you feel that way?

Because it just FEELS wrong....nevermind that it's exactly what he's done throughout his career......everyone has their heart set on a rebuild, that anything they FEEL takes away from that...is wrong.

 

[kingsfan]

Because it just FEELS wrong....nevermind that it's exactly what he's done throughout his career......everyone has their heart set on a rebuild, that anything they FEEL takes away from that...is wrong.

I don't even mind if it feels wrong, though it'd be pretty hard to justify how someone's gut feeling is correct while the team with a paid staff who are designed to get the maximum out of pro athletes is wrong. I just don't want to see the 'He's 35, therefore he's playing to much' argument. Age has a different meaning for everyone, players included.

 

[Schmooley]

Because it just FEELS wrong....nevermind that it's exactly what he's done throughout his career......everyone has their heart set on a rebuild, that anything they FEEL takes away from that...is wrong.

People dont FEEL its wrong. They WATCH him get burnt by Matt Luff when hes gassed out there. Hes getting older and doesnt have as much to give as he used to. Thats perfectly ok to think and say and theres no reason you should be mad when someone does. Hes still the best player on the team along with Doughty.

 

[Bandit]

Yeah it “feels” wrong. That and he’s playing like shit and obviously worn out.

 

[tny760]

Fair to question it. Why do you feel that way?

because those 20 other minutes make a big difference in the quality of play when you're getting triple shifted to close out a game, 2 goals down

i get that on the macro, he's producing the same ole reliable roughly PPG pace and that's awesome, maybe on the micro he'd be able to prevent the ENG and help win the game if he's not completely and utterly blasted at the end of the game. you can finesse those few minutes from somewhere during the game by simply allowing your 3rd and 4th lines to do their job 2 or 3 times a game instead of forcing a line match or o-zone draw in less critical situations

 

[crassbonanza]

Curious how much ice time people think Kopitar should get. This year he's averaging 21:11 a game, which is exactly the same as the previous year and he's actually played less than that in six of the past ten games.

In 2019-2020 it was 21:02 and in 2018-2019 it was 22:18 a game. The year before was 22:05. His ice time this year falls in line with what it's been for years now (likely his entire career if I go back further) and his production is in line with past years too. Age going up does not necessarily mean his ice time needs to go down, if he's capable of playing those minutes still, let him.

That is still top 10 in TOI/GP among forwards. My main complaint about TOI with Drew and Kopi is that we have supposedly been tanking the past 3 seasons, but they are still at the top of the league in TOI/GP. Why not reduce the wear slightly on our aging superstars if we are not actively trying to contend? Why not delegate some of those minutes towards younger players so they get experience and we can see what we have? Both are on long term contracts that will take them well into their late 30's, it might be a good idea to manage minutes when you are only competing for the lottery.

Doughty has the highest TOI/GP in the entire league since TMac became coach, there is absolutely no reason for that unless the team thought they were contenders. Which would honestly be even worse.

 

[King'sPawn]

Curious how much ice time people think Kopitar should get. This year he's averaging 21:11 a game, which is exactly the same as the previous year and he's actually played less than that in six of the past ten games.

In 2019-2020 it was 21:02 and in 2018-2019 it was 22:18 a game. The year before was 22:05. His ice time this year falls in line with what it's been for years now (likely his entire career if I go back further) and his production is in line with past years too. Age going up does not necessarily mean his ice time needs to go down, if he's capable of playing those minutes still, let him.

20:00
15:00
13:00
12:00

Ideally those number ranges, give or take.

The top ice time for forwards on some of the top teams. Barkov, gets 20:03. Kucherov averages 19:58. Zibanejad, 19:47. Stephenson, 19:31. MacKinnon, 21:48 (0:04 SH). Granlund, 20:44.

Kopitar either averages more than all of them or some of his minutes are harder by virtue of playing on the PK. And this is even after you mentioned his ice time has gone down.

Let's not forget that this is over several years, too.

Since 2017, Kopitar leads ALL FORWARDS with 7145:23 in the regular season. Second is Draisaitl with 7055:57. Kopitar is 12th among all forwards in shorthanded ice time. Only one player has had more than 6000 minutes - so they're more defensive forwards and PK specialists.

 

[crassbonanza]

Because it just FEELS wrong....nevermind that it's exactly what he's done throughout his career......everyone has their heart set on a rebuild, that anything they FEEL takes away from that...is wrong.

Doing things in your 20's and doing things in your 30's is different, it's not about "feel", it's about logic. Players begin to wear down when they accumulate so many minutes, especially as you enter your mid 30's. This isn't even saying they should play 3rd line/bottom pair minutes, it is saying they should have their minutes managed a little bit instead of being top 10(or number 1 in Doughty's case). We are still in the first half of the season and we still have many years left on both of these contracts, it's not unfair to have a little long term thinking(or FEELING if you want) regarding the minutes being played by Kopi/Doughty.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He's NOT our best center anymore. He's arguably our least effective regular center at this point and needs his minutes managed so he can continue being the offensive focus.


17:49 per game: Danault: 58% CF% (+5% rel), 67% GF% (+16%rel), 46% ozone starts lowest on the Kings, everyone that gets put on his line sees all their numbers trend up. Nearly 70 minutes PKing with only 7ga, while the two forwards with more (Kopitar, Iafallo) have been on for 16ga. Nearly 56% on faceoffs. 71 minutes of PPTOI.

21:09 per game: Kopitar: 54 CF% (+1rel), 49% GF% (-7.97 rel), 48% ozone starts 2nd to danault, more than twice as many goals against on the PK as danault despite only a handful more minutes. Nearly 57% on faceoffs. 150 minutes of PPTOI.

11:58 per game: Lizotte 56% CF% (+3 rel), 57% GF% (+4 rel), 52% ozone starts, half the pk time as the others and 6ga. 53% on faceoffs. 5 minutes of PPTOI.

Byfield gets an incomplete because it's early but he's the best option of all of them thus far and getting the same icetime as Lizotte.


In other words, this icetime disparity needs to stop NOW. Kopitar is actually the only regular C LOSING the 5v5 goals battle and all his matchups relative to the rest of the team. He's scoring more, but not even at a net positive with how much he's bleeding against. And don't get me started on the special teams ineptitude--it's largely his fault!

Kopitar is playing harder minutes than #1 C and #1 D 10 years his junior. Cut his minutes immediately. There's no reason the others shoudn't be eating into the top-six's minutes at this point.

Danault 17
Kopitar 16
Byfield 15
Lizotte 12

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh, and the Coyotes and Canadiens are the ONLY teams other than the Kings to be in the bottom 10 of both PP AND PK (of course all three teams are bottom 5 of both). That's damning. There are some elite teams with a bad ONE, but no one remotely close has terrible BOTH. Marco Sturm needs to be fired and erased from the sacred timeline.

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

This team is dying for a progressive coach. And here we are with Captain Conservative F***stick McGee playing it safe(and old).

It's by design, I get it. And we are 21-16-5. So, it could be worse.

 

[Martyros]

Kupari and Vilardi are the odd fwds out in my opinion. Kaliyev has shown strides here and there with his skating and shooting, Byfield has been creating chances, Turcotte has shown promise with his aggression. Kupari hasn't shown as much as we'd like in his young rookie season thus far and Vilardi's skating is a liability going forward even if he may turn out to be a good player. Kupari, Vilardi, and a 1st too far off?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

So Faust said Blake was at the Rangers-Coyotes game the night before. Probably mainly looking at Chychrun.

 

[apocalypse]

Honestly I think that if given more time to mature, Byfield won't need good linemates. He'll carry the weight all by himself. After this roadtrip, he needs to go back down.

 

[apocalypse]

Kupari and Vilardi are the odd fwds out in my opinion. Kaliyev has shown strides here and there with his skating and shooting, Byfield has been creating chances, Turcotte has shown promise with his aggression. Kupari hasn't shown as much as we'd like in his young rookie season thus far and Vilardi's skating is a liability going forward even if he may turn out to be a good player. Kupari, Vilardi, and a 1st too far off?

Nope.

 

[cyclones22]

He's NOT our best center anymore. He's arguably our least effective regular center at this point and needs his minutes managed so he can continue being the offensive focus.


17:49 per game: Danault: 58% CF% (+5% rel), 67% GF% (+16%rel), 46% ozone starts lowest on the Kings, everyone that gets put on his line sees all their numbers trend up. Nearly 70 minutes PKing with only 7ga, while the two forwards with more (Kopitar, Iafallo) have been on for 16ga. Nearly 56% on faceoffs. 71 minutes of PPTOI.

21:09 per game: Kopitar: 54 CF% (+1rel), 49% GF% (-7.97 rel), 48% ozone starts 2nd to danault, more than twice as many goals against on the PK as danault despite only a handful more minutes. Nearly 57% on faceoffs. 150 minutes of PPTOI.

11:58 per game: Lizotte 56% CF% (+3 rel), 57% GF% (+4 rel), 52% ozone starts, half the pk time as the others and 6ga. 53% on faceoffs. 5 minutes of PPTOI.

Byfield gets an incomplete because it's early but he's the best option of all of them thus far and getting the same icetime as Lizotte.


In other words, this icetime disparity needs to stop NOW. Kopitar is actually the only regular C LOSING the 5v5 goals battle and all his matchups relative to the rest of the team. He's scoring more, but not even at a net positive with how much he's bleeding against. And don't get me started on the special teams ineptitude--it's largely his fault!

Kopitar is playing harder minutes than #1 C and #1 D 10 years his junior. Cut his minutes immediately. There's no reason the others shoudn't be eating into the top-six's minutes at this point.

Danault 17
Kopitar 16
Byfield 15
Lizotte 12

Thank you. Kopi is starting to turn into empty calories. He used to be prime rib, now he's a pack of Twinkies. Same calories but one is gonna leave you hungry for more an hour later. If all you're looking at is bottom line point production w/o looking at any of the underlying numbers (as well as the eye test), then you'll never see that he's in a state of decline. Kopi used to kill it on all metrics and produce 70+ points a season, that's not the case anymore.

I hate the thought process of "he's earned it", so he can stay in this role and gobble up minutes until he drags the team down even further. The Kings have the 30th ranked PK FFS. Try something different and remove him off PK1. Danault and Lizotte are fully capable PKers. Start there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Thank you. Kopi is starting to turn into empty calories. He used to be prime rib, now he's a pack of Twinkies. Same calories but one is gonna leave you hungry for more an hour later. If all you're looking at is bottom line point production w/o looking at any of the underlying numbers (as well as the eye test), then you'll never see that he's in a state of decline. Kopi used to kill it on all metrics and produce 70+ points a season, that's not the case anymore.

I hate the thought process of "he's earned it", so he can stay in this role and gobble up minutes until he drags the team down even further. The Kings have the 30th ranked PK FFS. Try something different and remove him off PK1. Danault and Lizotte are fully capable PKers. Start there.

I love Kopitar. Have his jersey signed and framed, admire his game, will go down easily as my favorite King of all time and a franchise ambassador and just a good all around dude for the game of hockey. I have such a long history of defending him I hope people will take the above seriously.

I remember battling all the time when he was 'just' a 70+ point guy but he was regularly CRUSHING his matchups. Maybe he only gets 1-2 points a game, but his matchup will always get 0-1. Now he's scoring more, but giving up even more, to where he's in the red. So if you look at the raw (not relative) advanced stats and his points--sure, it all looks 'fine'. But if you look deeper you'll see he is absolutely hurting, and you can see it on the ice. There is ZERO reason he should have more minutes than Danault, and SO MANY more minutes than the bottom six, when he can't win his matchups any more. Any combination of Devils was just embarrassing him all game. He couldn't hardly touch them--and the guy he spent the most time against, Hischier....Kopitar was a 25% CF against. That's your #1 center matchup vs. a league-average/mediocre 1C. Why does that deserve 22 f***ing minutes? meanwhile, you have Lizotte at 75% vs. Zacha and 80% vs. Mercer, Byfield crushing his matchups...why don't they share 4 of Kopitar's minutes? It's like I'm taking crazy pills arguing for the easiest possible 5v5 situations as well as special teams overhaul...

 

[crassbonanza]

\

I love Kopitar. Have his jersey signed and framed, admire his game, will go down easily as my favorite King of all time and a franchise ambassador and just a good all around dude for the game of hockey. I have such a long history of defending him I hope people will take the above seriously.

I remember battling all the time when he was 'just' a 70+ point guy but he was regularly CRUSHING his matchups. Maybe he only gets 1-2 points a game, but his matchup will always get 0-1. Now he's scoring more, but giving up even more, to where he's in the red. So if you look at the raw (not relative) advanced stats and his points--sure, it all looks 'fine'. But if you look deeper you'll see he is absolutely hurting, and you can see it on the ice. There is ZERO reason he should have more minutes than Danault, and SO MANY more minutes than the bottom six, when he can't win his matchups any more. Any combination of Devils was just embarrassing him all game. He couldn't hardly touch them--and the guy he spent the most time against, Hischier....Kopitar was a 25% CF against. That's your #1 center matchup vs. a league-average/mediocre 1C. Why does that deserve 22 f***ing minutes? meanwhile, you have Lizotte at 75% vs. Zacha and 80% vs. Mercer, Byfield crushing his matchups...why don't they share 4 of Kopitar's minutes? It's like I'm taking crazy pills arguing for the easiest possible 5v5 situations as well as special teams overhaul...

I don't think Kopi has declined significantly, I still think he is our best forward talent wise, I just think the minutes are finally catching up with him. Over the past decade he has played nearly 100 more minutes than any other forward in the league. Those minutes have been tough as well, he has over 1,500 minutes on the PK over that stretch. If you look at the rest of the top 10 forwards in TOI over that time frame only one(O'reilly) has over 1,000 minutes of shorthanded time.