It's not a league problem? Really? Ok, Tampa, Colorado, 2 players on Edmonton, 1 or 2 on the Leafs.....you have 31 teams, 23 rostered players 713 rostered NHL players, and you have MAYBE...MAYBE 1 or 2 on each team that is "pure skill"
Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII
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It's not a league problem? Really? Ok, Tampa, Colorado, 2 players on Edmonton, 1 or 2 on the Leafs.....you have 31 teams, 23 rostered players 713 rostered NHL players, and you have MAYBE...MAYBE 1 or 2 on each team that is "pure skill"
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Local Czech/Slovak media reporting that former Kings 5th-round draft pick, 29-year-old goaltender Patrik Bartošák, who was in the Czech Olympic lineup this year, assaulted his father who reported him to the police:
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Český brankár opäť zbil vlastného otca, ten svojho syna nahlásil na polícii: Už sa to inak nedá | Šport.sk
Problémy ho sprevádzajú celou kariérou a hoci sa mohlo zdať, že je všetkému koniec, opak je pravdou. Český reprezentačný hokejový brankár Patrik Ba...sport.aktuality.sk
His father also says Bartošák previously assaulted his uncle, older and younger brother, and fought with his former brother-in-law. The father also says he believes that his son is an addict, pointing out he doesn't mean "alcohol addict".
Yikes. Voynov (likewise in Russia's Olympic lineup earlier this year, but it looks like Russia is done competing internationally for the foreseeable future) seems like a peace dove in comparison.
I guess it will only make sense for Bartošák to return to the KHL where (among other places) he played last season, although he was supposed to play in Finland next season. The KHL as the pariah league for pariah players?
Wow. Considering he also left the USA for similar threats/issues with his GF (I may be misremembering? please don't wreck me if I am), I hope he gets the help he needs.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Scoring is up huge league wide man, it’s not 1 or 2 teams that are doing it.
The Kings have serious issues getting players they draft to become scorers at the NHL level. More so than basically every team in the league. Do you think that pushing them into a system before they are 20 years old might be a big reason why?
maybe drafting with character being a higher priority than skill was not a smart move? Not saying it should not be considered.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
He’s a real piece of shit.
Kings suspend prospect after DV accusations
Patrik Bartosak, a Kings goalie prospect currently playing in the ECHL, has been accused in N.H. of 12 domestic-related charges involving his girlfriend. He has been suspended by the team.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
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I say its legacy from the DL era. Its no different than other sports programs.. eg USC football was known for producing great running backs.. over decades. I recall how disappointed DL was with Jack Johnson's fundamentals.. bemoaning that Red Berenson didnt teach him anything.. maybe that is the opposite approach - Red probably let him be JMFJ instead of teaching him gap control or whatever
Edit: Former Michigan hockey player Jack Johnson: I've said my piece
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Choralone
Registered User
Honestly, I hope it's the people around him who get the help they need.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Johnson grew tremendously as a defensive player between his freshman and sophomore years. That was DL just being bitter that Jack peaked as a player in his early 20's. None of the stuff he said about "hockey people knowing its the worst" was true, look how many "hockey people" sent their kids to play for him.
And I don't disagree with the other part, but then what was the expectation when their "huge changes" in the spring of 2017 was just firing DL and DS and promoting everyone else to higher positions? They needed a philosophical change and they didn't get it. I wonder where we would be had they did what they did when they brought in DL a decade before and fired everyone and went outside the organization.
But other than the DL hiring, that has never been the Kings way. It's always been the old boys club.
Jack Johnson has had a pretty dang good career. Never reached the heights that he was hyped to be but not his fault he was over hyped.
AbsentMojo
F-ing get up and hunt! Cmon Todd!
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It seemed to me the Berenson was a good coach who wasnt too strict with his young players.. there has to be a balance between creativity and systems.. That is what the Kings lack it seems. They want the talented rooks to start in the mail room to some degree.. They did try Vilardi on the 2nd line but other than that, its always being very conservative. I dont think QB got a rep on the PP til the playoffs for example. I also think that TMac is not the right coach for a rebuild phase. But now its too late the rebuild is over, they have to go for it with what they captured during the tank and build via trades. The Kings do seem to be able to develop D talent - so going fwd, they should prob just draft D, develop and trade for O
If we would play another system than board grinding, we would have scoring wingers.
It's really difficult to score when you are pinned to the board.
Colorado and Tampa's entry of the o-zone in the middle of the ice is exceptional.
From here they have several options to pick from, while we are already at the boards, having only one way towards the goal.
This is not a youth development issue
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
Am I outta line thinking Kevin Fiala (or Fail, if my laptop had it's way) might be the guy, given how they might matchup with Minnesota in a trade?
What do they need: Young, cheap players to help fill out the roster given the cap crunch.
What do the Kings have: Lots of that. Particularly on the blue line as we learned this season.
What do they need: Young, cheap players to help fill out the roster given the cap crunch.
What do the Kings have: Lots of that. Particularly on the blue line as we learned this season.
The Lukeman
Opinionated
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No youre not out of line at all. Half this board (myself included) did not think Danault was the guy before he was signed. Turns out a lot of us were VERY wrong.
Reality is we really won't know how good a player is for us once he plays in our system. Fiala could be just as good, if not better than he was in Minnesota. He could be a Milan Lucic in Edmonton for all we know. But Fiala does check a lot of boxes that we are missing on this team. Gritty scoring winger at the right age. Its more of a price issue with him, both assets and contract.
Theres a lot of ways we can go this summer. Surprisingly a lot of high end talent available this summer. IMO the way to take this team forward is to acquire 2 pieces. A Defenseman and a Winger. 1 by trade, 1 by free agency. If I'm Rob Blake, thats my plan this summer.
DoktorJeep
Luc and Rob are a waste of time and money.
HBO should make a series about the rise of the Gretzky Kings and call it Jail Time.
FSL KINGS
Registered User
- May 10, 2021
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Only issue with Fiala is that he's a left shot. Blake's focus is on the PP judging by recent comments. Right shots King's have Ardvidsson, Kupari, Vilardi. OV's office is vacant currently. Guessing Blake goes for a right shot first.
Fagemo & Chromiak are coming at some point. (Righties)
LMAO that is such a piss poor horseshit argument.......show me ONE NHL team...just ONE....that doesn't have ex players, ex stars, ex people littered throughout their staff......and I haven't done it, but if you want, I can, I can go play six ways of Kevin Bacon and link every goddamn team to the next with those.....
It's a shit argument....
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
That brings us to DeBrincat or Forsberg (pass on the FA).
We need to add one tough player. Preferably a guy who is also a LD. I still think they should add evander Kane also
We need to add one tough player. Preferably a guy who is also a LD. I still think they should add evander Kane so that’s two guys actually
We need to add one tough player. Preferably a guy who is also a LD. I still think they should add evander Kane so that’s two guys actually
Jericho111091
Registered User
RE: The Kings System
The Kings don't play a grinding system anymore, it's as open for creativity as it has been for years. Yes, they play the same system in the AHL. It must be a decent way to play as the Reign were the highest-scoring team in the league by a large margin. Systems make a good roster great, or can get an average roster into the playoffs. If you don't have 3-4 absolute top guys it's not going to matter how you play.
The only reason there is a focus on the King's system is because we follow them closely and don't notice the struggles of other teams. Most teams have the exact same development problems and very few can churn out and develop top scorers without either numerous top 5 picks or flat-out luck. Take Zegras, for example, who is usually given as an example of what happens when you let a young guy loose. Who is the last forward the Ducks drafted who is scoring at his pace at a young age? Maybe Bobby Ryan? But he was a few years older when he took off. You probably need to go back to 2003 draft where stars were up and down the first round. They've had exactly 1 forward in the last 10 years taken in the first round pan out. And that's the normal. Teams who develop a bunch of forwards in a short period of time are uncommon, and those teams usually have multiple top-5 picks in a short time.
Criticism of the Kings is absolutely valid. They've drafted just OK, and some of their choices haven't bore fruit or backfired. But the grass is greener stuff simply isn't true, most other teams have the same exact issues. 10 years ago really spoiled us, I think, to the point where it seemed easy to build a winner. What the Kings did with those levels of draft picks to build that team was ridiculously rare.
The Kings don't play a grinding system anymore, it's as open for creativity as it has been for years. Yes, they play the same system in the AHL. It must be a decent way to play as the Reign were the highest-scoring team in the league by a large margin. Systems make a good roster great, or can get an average roster into the playoffs. If you don't have 3-4 absolute top guys it's not going to matter how you play.
The only reason there is a focus on the King's system is because we follow them closely and don't notice the struggles of other teams. Most teams have the exact same development problems and very few can churn out and develop top scorers without either numerous top 5 picks or flat-out luck. Take Zegras, for example, who is usually given as an example of what happens when you let a young guy loose. Who is the last forward the Ducks drafted who is scoring at his pace at a young age? Maybe Bobby Ryan? But he was a few years older when he took off. You probably need to go back to 2003 draft where stars were up and down the first round. They've had exactly 1 forward in the last 10 years taken in the first round pan out. And that's the normal. Teams who develop a bunch of forwards in a short period of time are uncommon, and those teams usually have multiple top-5 picks in a short time.
Criticism of the Kings is absolutely valid. They've drafted just OK, and some of their choices haven't bore fruit or backfired. But the grass is greener stuff simply isn't true, most other teams have the same exact issues. 10 years ago really spoiled us, I think, to the point where it seemed easy to build a winner. What the Kings did with those levels of draft picks to build that team was ridiculously rare.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
wow you sound mad. People who use profanity usually never add anything to a discussion.
BTW, the 2012 LA Kings were not littered with former players throughout the organization.
DL, Sutter, Hextall, Stevens, Payne, Kompon, Ranford never had any connection to the Kings in their playing career. That was basically the only time that 99% of the fans here weren't subjected to an era dominated by former players at all levels. What happened in those years?
Also, funny how you reply to this post but ignore the one I directly replies to you calling out your BS argument that only a couple of teams are developing skilled players, guess a concession that it was a false take.
But I'll ty again, why have other teams been able to put their high picks in the NHL with more success than the Kings without the need to have those young players spend key development years playing pro hockey in the AHL? Can you give me any reasons why those teams dont feel the need to have every prospect spend time in the AHL?
BTW, I think you just broke JT_Dutch's record for most ellipses used in a career posting. They aren't used correctly, but congrats regardless.
No argument on the grinding style, somebody else said that and I don't agree. The Kings generated plenty of chances off the rush this season. The Kings system at the NHL and AHL (as you showed) is not causing offensive problems, the problems are caused because the Kings have not been able to acquire enough offensive finishers, specifically with their many high draft picks used on forwards.
One common denominator with almost all those picks was having those players in the AHL before most other NHL teams would have. I don't hate the AHL but in most cases it is not a league for teenage forwards to try and maximize their offensive potential, age 18 and 19 seasons are crucial for development of skills, and that should be the emphasis, much more than getting players into a system prematurely. Everyone is always excited when players join the Reign, but I really don't understand why. For forwards atleast there has not been much to get excited about with that has happened down there with developing skilled players.
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Herby
How could Blake have known?
I ignored it, because the only proof you have is...err durr...other teams can do it....without naming single f***ing one....
As far as profanity etc, f*** off...there ya go, that profane enough for you? You've been beating the same goddamn drum for a decade, it was stupid then, it's stupid now, it hasn't f***ing changed.
So I just want to make sure I got this straight.....the old boys clubs ONLY refers to former Kings working for the Kings...that's it? So then, Marc Berergivin would not be considered an old boys club? Right? Just making sure, because that's just as f***ing stupid as the original argument.....you are literally arguing the 2012 Kings wasn't an old boys club even though you can link DL, Hextall, Stevens, Sutter, all together....but they are ok, because they didn't play for the Kings? f***ing idiotic....
Why have other teams put their high draft picks...yadda bullshit...yadda bullshit....
Well let's identify the Kings...top draft picks in the last...I dunno, f***ing decade.
2012 - 30th - Doesn't count, right?
2013 - 37th - Doesn't count
2014 - 29th - Doesn't count
2015 - 43rd - Doesnt count
2016 - 51st - Doesn't count
2017 - 11th - Not sure, does that count? If so,....ok, major back inury
2018 - 20th - Doesn't count
2019 - 5th OA - ya finally got one
2020 - 2nd OA - shit, back to back
2021 - 8th OA -....I dunno, does that count?
So in a decade.....TWO....two f***ing players....and OMG they don't develop because other teams do the same thing? Ok, great,
Let's compare them with the neighbors
ANA - 2012 - 6th OA - Lindholm - Played in the AHL
ANA - 2013 - 26th - OA - doesn't count
ANA - 2014 - 10th OA - maybe counts like Vilardi? Played in the AHL
ANA - 2015 - 27th OA - doesn't count
ANA - 2016 - 24th OA - doesn't count
ANA - 2017 - 50th OA - doesn't count
ANA - 2018 - 23rd OA - doesn't count
ANA - 2019 - 9th OA - counts, Trevor Zegras
ANA - 2020 - 6th OA - Drysdale, played in the AHL
ANA - 2021 - 3rd OA - McTavish...back to juniors.....
So 3....compared to....two....shit, let's do Chicago, cuz we are having fun right?
Cut down on time, 2 - 8th OA Boqvuist, 3rd OA Dach - both played in AHL....Dach only for 3 games, and he's f***ing tearing it up right?
Let's go with Detroit....right?
Rasmussen - 9th OA - 3 years of AHL
Zadina - 6th OA - 2 years of AHL
Seider - 6th OA - year of Sweden Pro, year of AHL
Raymond - 4th OA no AHL..oh you got one
Edvinsson - 6th OA - stayed in Sweden.....
Again....it's a bullshit argument that EVERY OTHER TEAM DOES IT.....
Shit, let's take Colorado
MacKinnon - 1st OA - kinda obvious
Rantanen - 10th OA - holy shit, he played in the AHL
Tyson Jost - 10th OA - didn't really spend time in the AHL....and...busted
Cale Makar - 4th OA - 2 years in college hockey....didnt play the AHL though yay
Byram - 4th OA - extra year in junior and sometime in the AHL
Lets finish with Tampa
Koekkek - 10th OA - 3 years in the AHL
Drouin - 3rd OA - 20 games in the AHL...and busted
Cal Foote - 14th OA - doubt he counts, but 4 years in the AHL
Yep...every f***ing team does it.......such bullshit.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
When did I say players shouldn't play in the AHL? Just that it should be after 2 years of experience at lower levels, especially for forwards expected to contribute offensively in their careers. Almost all of the players you listed began their AHL careers at 20, with two full seasons of experience at lower levels. The problem is having them there learning a system before they reach their potential in the NCAA or Europe. Why do you keep bringing up 2 players? The Kings have had 7 players play in the AHL as teenagers under Blake, you don't find that number to be very high compared to the rest of the league? Why are you referencing 2 players on ly?
QB has more AHL games (all as a teenager) than the all the other top 3 picks combined over the past 6 seasons. You don't find that a little bit odd?
Turcotte has as many AHL games as the next 10 forwards taken in that draft, again you don't find that a bit odd?
You supported QB, Turcotte and Kupari in the AHL (as you support everything the team does). Why did you support those decisions, what was your reasoning? What were similar examples of players of the same caliber going that route and having success?
If NHL systems are so complex and the Kings are justified in having players enter the system ASAP why have other teams been able to have players immediately jump into the NHL without needing a season of minor pro to learn the system. How was McAvoy able to jump right into Boston's lineup? Or Makar and Newhook with Colorado? Or Caufield with Montreal? All these guys jumped from the NCAA to the NHL without learning systems, how is that possible?
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