Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[lumbergh]

Admittedly, I have not seen much of him, if any this year. How is his 200' game? Could it simply be an attitude thing? Commitment/compete at the next level? Some guys don't have to work hard in the minors but when they get to the next level, it's too much and they don't want to put in the work.

Could be that there's quite a gulf between the quality of play at the AHL level and the NHL level. Maybe. Nah, that can't possibly be true.

 

[BigKing]

With as bad as Zegras is defensively, TMac would have benched his ass.. and whose to say he’d be the same offensive player here?

Byfield is still getting sent over the boards so I don't think he'd be benched.

 

[Martyros]

I doubt that Durzi and Anderson play for 2 mill and Vilardi for 1.5.
I would be thrilled if Anderson and Durzi sign for as low as 5mill long term. Those guys are our top line defenders who showed that they can play.
Vilardi will also be more in the 3 mill range

I really hope that you are right though, if not we can easily skip the next 3 seasons

You're out of your mind if you think either of those players will get 5 mil per season. I don't even see vilardi signing 1.5 either.
bridge deal for durzi, 2-2.5/yr for 2-3 years, Anderson maybe 3-3.5/yr mil max 5 years. Vilardi on a 1 mil deal for 1 year. Please stop overvaluing our players. Kempe is the only one that's going to get a raise. 5-6.5 mil/yr. His latest drought will probably diminish his value just a tad.

 

[Martyros]

Not to bash on Byfield, but I honestly do not disagree with how tmac has handled him. More often than not he passes behind players and does the lazy reach with his short-ass stick. He's gotta to change his game and use his big frame to his advantage. I understand he's built his game on speed but that's not gonna work as a 6'5 center in the NHL. I doubt Blake drafted a big guy that doesn't want to play as a big player....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Not to bash on Byfield, but I honestly do not disagree with how tmac has handled him. More often than not he passes behind players and does the lazy reach with his short-ass stick. He's gotta to change his game and use his big frame to his advantage. I understand he's built his game on speed but that's not gonna work as a 6'5 center in the NHL. I doubt Blake drafted a big guy that doesn't want to play as a big player....

Frankly, that's exactly who he drafted. Maybe it's just more apparent in Byfield than other junior-aged players because he's f***ing huge so you'd expect more physicality but it's not unusual at all for fresh draftees and teens to have those habits (ie Byfield can fly by and poke a puck to cause a breakaway injunoirs, in the NHL a guy just shields the puck and laughs)

I just don't see these as fatal flaws because they're a very common issue.

 

[lumbergh]

the Kings make the playoffs and lose in round 1 or 2, end up with the #19 pick and most of these highly drafted forwards end up having poor years (which it looks like all those things will be true), was this season an overall good for the Kings rebuild?

Yes, it absolutely would be. I think it's a necessity to feel the sting of losing a playoff series. These players, young and old, have to know the feeling of finality that comes with watching an opponent celebrate at their expense. To learn that their whole season came down the details big and small during a game is part of development. The playoffs are so different from the regular season that getting playoff experience is vital to eventually becoming a contender. Few teams jump from rebuild to contender status in a season. Almost every Cup winner over the past 15 years had a season or two or seven of clawing their way to the playoffs and then getting bounced before they reached the top. Maybe Chicago as the exception.

Besides the rebuild, I'm just personally invested in watching the Kings in the playoffs again. If they get in, they have to be considered underdogs in pretty much any match up in the first two rounds. It's gonna be fun as hell to watch, and well worth it for the difference between the #13 pick and the #19 pick.

 

[Sol]

With as bad as Zegras is defensively, TMac would have benched his ass.. and whose to say he’d be the same offensive player here?

Uhh Byfield isn’t doing anything at all offensively and he’s turning the puck over 24/7. If byfield is in the line up, Zegras would undoubtedly be above him. Zegras has shown more skill in a handful of games than I’ve seen byfield this whole time. The only reason Byfield was drafted this high was because , speed, height and shot. But I don’t think they realize that for his height he plays a smaller game than Lizotte. Not to go on the Stutzle topic but he was obviously a more skilled player than byfield

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Frankly, that's exactly who he drafted. Maybe it's just more apparent in Byfield than other junior-aged players because he's f***ing huge so you'd expect more physicality but it's not unusual at all for fresh draftees and teens to have those habits (ie Byfield can fly by and poke a puck to cause a breakaway injunoirs, in the NHL a guy just shields the puck and laughs)

I just don't see these as fatal flaws because they're a very common issue.

Pretty much this...and the angles he takes make me cringe, he does that on the bench side, he's another Patches waiting to happen....

 

[kings11]

Byfield is still getting sent over the boards so I don't think he'd be benched.

He can actually play defense tho

 

[kings11]

De

Uhh Byfield isn’t doing anything at all offensively and he’s turning the puck over 24/7. If byfield is in the line up, Zegras would undoubtedly be above him. Zegras has shown more skill in a handful of games than I’ve seen byfield this whole time. The only reason Byfield was drafted this high was because , speed, height and shot. But I don’t think they realize that for his height he plays a smaller game than Lizotte. Not to go on the Stutzle topic but he was obviously a more skilled player than byfield

Zegras can’t defend his shadow and with how TMac reacts to such things… where do you think Zegras would find himself?
Also keep in mind that Zegras centers Terry.. Kings don’t have a Terry in the 3rd line let alone on the team

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

ESPN's Synopsis of the Above

 

[Kurrilino]

Anderson's the only one I can see getting more than $2 million, if we for some reason were to long him up long term around $3 million or so. There's just no way Durzi or Vilardi are getting more than $2 million on bridge deals. Hell, Kempe signed a three-year deal at $2 million per year in 2019-20 after scoring 37 and then 28 points. Both Durzi and Vilardi have shorter track records than that.

We are talking a management here that gave Iafallo 4 mill and Paterson 5.

If i would be Anderson or Durzi being offered 2 mill while the other guys who contribute absolutely nothing get 4 or 5,
i would talk to my agent.

But let's assume you and the other posters may be right.
What are we going to do with a maximum of 5 mill cap space?
I don't see any difference maker that signs for this amount of money

 

[YP44]

We are talking a management here that gave Iafallo 4 mill and Paterson 5.

If i would be Anderson or Durzi being offered 2 mill while the other guys who contribute absolutely nothing get 4 or 5,
i would talk to my agent.

Iafallo was playing productive first line minutes while having good shut down metrics. $4M for him is not bad at all.
Petersen I was good with at the time of his deal, however his progression has stalled and it is less ideal now. Still time for that deal to work out, either way not sure we should be comparing a goalie contract to a skater.

 

[Kurrilino]

You're out of your mind if you think either of those players will get 5 mil per season. I don't even see vilardi signing 1.5 either.
bridge deal for durzi, 2-2.5/yr for 2-3 years, Anderson maybe 3-3.5/yr mil max 5 years. Vilardi on a 1 mil deal for 1 year. Please stop overvaluing our players. Kempe is the only one that's going to get a raise. 5-6.5 mil/yr. His latest drought will probably diminish his value just a tad.

I do not overvalue our players.
I go by what they pay players in recent past.

If i take the other posters numbers, 2 mill each for Durzi and Anderson, 5 mill for Kempe, they came up with 5 mill cap space.
Using your numbers only leaves 0.5 mill capspace without improving our team in any way.

I'm not concerned about the exact numbers, i am concerned about that we are cornered cap wise as long as we drag the old folks around for no reason.
Having 1.5 mill or 0.5 capspace still means we are right at the cap with very little room for movement.
And you guys numbers are extremely low estimate

 

[Herby]

They ride buses in college too

Would they have been in the idyllic utopia that is college or the nightmarish hellscape that is the AHL

Riding busses is a term used for playing in the minors in hockey and baseball, yes they do in college also but it's a totally different lifestyle and development atmosphere for the players. And yes, if you look at the results, for teenagers college is an idyllic utopia compared to the AHL. If I am wrong tell me why. The results are night and day for NCAA prospects. 2019 is even more proof of it.

Do you believe the teenagers in AHL strategy has been one that has been beneficial for the Kings since they started heavily using it the last couple of years?

 

[Herby]

Yes, it absolutely would be. I think it's a necessity to feel the sting of losing a playoff series. These players, young and old, have to know the feeling of finality that comes with watching an opponent celebrate at their expense. To learn that their whole season came down the details big and small during a game is part of development. The playoffs are so different from the regular season that getting playoff experience is vital to eventually becoming a contender. Few teams jump from rebuild to contender status in a season. Almost every Cup winner over the past 15 years had a season or two or seven of clawing their way to the playoffs and then getting bounced before they reached the top. Maybe Chicago as the exception.

Besides the rebuild, I'm just personally invested in watching the Kings in the playoffs again. If they get in, they have to be considered underdogs in pretty much any match up in the first two rounds. It's gonna be fun as hell to watch, and well worth it for the difference between the #13 pick and the #19 pick.

I think the personally invested in the playoffs thing is not optimal for a rebuild if the path to the playoffs loses or slows the development of the young players. If the Kings were making the playoffs with Byfield as the 2C, Vilardi as the 2RW and Turcotte as the 3C things are a bit different. But we are making the playoffs this year with guys who are almost all older veterans leading the charge while the young players have all failed to take the steps that many expected. Just not sure the trade off is worth it. Also, I was not advocating for a #13 black hole pick, had the Kings rolled with the youngest team in the NHL this year in another development year they would have been picking much higher, either that or the kids would have taken big steps to get them to the black hole, either scenario would have been better for the rebuild.

I do agree about the clawing through things, the Kings lost two playoff rounds before winning, Chicago did as well, as did Pittsburgh but all of those teams did it with their young players leading the charge. If the Kings make the playoffs and have their optimal lineup back in how many young players are going to be playing significant roles? Based on usage it's the 3RW, 4C and #5D.

 

[Herby]

With as bad as Zegras is defensively, TMac would have benched his ass.. and whose to say he’d be the same offensive player here?

How with Byfield playing 25 consecutive games at the level he has played how could you possibly argue that Zegras would be benched or in Ontario?

See RJ, you always tell me that "people aren't being serious" or "it's sarcasm" when I bring up the people who claim that Zegras, Seider, Boldy, Caufield etc. would be in the AHL if they were playing for the Kings. I don't really think that is the case. People have this incorrect assumption that the Kings always slow play when there is absolutely no basis for reality in it. Byfield playing 25 games this season proves it.

 

[cyclones22]

De

Zegras can’t defend his shadow and with how TMac reacts to such things… where do you think Zegras would find himself?
Also keep in mind that Zegras centers Terry.. Kings don’t have a Terry in the 3rd line let alone on the team

I'm pretty confident in saying that TMc would NEVER allow 2 rookies to be dead last on the team with -19 and -18 respectively. That's Zegras and Drysdale. The Ducks are going to benefit from allowing that much rope for those 2 to develop offensively for sure. But Vilardi had a bad 6 games (as the entire team did) or so to start the season after being decent the previous season and was sent down for 40 games. TMc wants to win now and if you're that much of a liability, you're going to get punished by seeing the bench or the AHL if you're a rookie.

 

[Sol]

De

Zegras can’t defend his shadow and with how TMac reacts to such things… where do you think Zegras would find himself?
Also keep in mind that Zegras centers Terry.. Kings don’t have a Terry in the 3rd line let alone on the team

I don’t think Byfield would do any better centering Marchand. It’s not that byfield has bad linemates, it’s the fact that he’s bad himself.

He needs a sports psychologist to work out the kinks and ineptitude of the staff

 

[Herby]

I don’t think Byfield would do any better centering Marchand. It’s not that byfield has bad linemates, it’s the fact that he’s bad himself.

He needs a sports psychologist to work out the kinks and ineptitude of the staff

Give the kid a bit of a break, he was thrown into the heart of a playoff race when he obviously wasn't prepared to be an effective player. If he had 50 games of NHL experience last year it's very unlikely he would be this bad. Him and the Kings are in a brutal spot with his development because of Blake's decisions with him last year. They can't sit him because he needs games and they can't send him to the AHL and risk him sucking again next year because that could permanently destroy his development. I think he needs to just gain confidence that is only going to come with more NHL games. Unfortunately those NHL games are in high pressure situations where his mistakes are magnified. The Kings probably have a better chance to compete with JAD or Vilardi centering that line, but they are taking the hit for the good of his development, which is fine by me. It didn't have to be this way, but it is what it is.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Let's just say we agree on all that for the purpose of the discussion.

The lineup you drew there has 0 chance of winning the cup.
Even if we fill the 1st line center position and the 4th line by shuffling or trading.
The lineup doesn't include the player strength and weaknesses and just puts together a roster.

They way i see this is that the 2 top lines are responsible for scoring goals.
The bottom lines are used to give some time to catch the breath while keeping the opponents in check
If i apply player abilities/skills to our daily roster, it would look like that IMO

xxx - xxx - 34
9 - xxx - xxx
19 - 24 - 33
48 - 46 - 91

While i am extremely happy with the bottom 6, the top 6 is missing a lot of punch and/or qualified players.
Just shuffling players around from here won't cut it.

Just for giggles we assume that some of our youngsters will become NHL'ers according to their skillset
and the picture will become much clearer.

2 years from now, it would look like that:

xxx - 55 - 34
9 - Turcotte/Kupari - Chromiak
19 - 24 - Fagemo
48 - 46 - 91

For me it looks like there is absolutely no need to make a trade or shuffle people around out of their skill zone.
We still have assets like Vilardi, Kupari/Turcotte, Madden, Pinelli to trade for a young winger with scoring upside if available.

The only question is what to do with our senior citizen until this point.
They hold all powers because of their clauses.
Either we can arrange trades and start the future or if they refuse we keep playing them with garbage and collect high end picks.
I don't really see much of a middle ground between those extremes

My 1st assumption was that the goal is to make the playoffs the next 2 years. Blake missing the playoffs while waiting on guys to develop doesn't seem like an option. Heat would get turned up on Blake, Luc.

Turns into how do you improve the team to make the playoffs & not necessarily win the cup in the next 2 years.

If the goal is to wait 2 years for youth, vet contracts can be burned off. No problem.
Cap, there's plenty to bring people back & have some for a small upgrade. If looking for a bigger upgrade, a cap savings may need to be made.

 

[kilowatt]

Riding busses is a term used for playing in the minors in hockey and baseball, yes they do in college also but it's a totally different lifestyle and development atmosphere for the players. And yes, if you look at the results, for teenagers college is an idyllic utopia compared to the AHL. If I am wrong tell me why. The results are night and day for NCAA prospects. 2019 is even more proof of it.

Do you believe the teenagers in AHL strategy has been one that has been beneficial for the Kings since they started heavily using it the last couple of years?

It was tongue in cheek, it's certainly looking like sending these kids to the AHL when we've literally never developed an elite player in the AHL was a bad idea. I'm at a loss for words at this point. I wonder whether we should stop trying to draft forward prospects and instead try to trade picks for already-developed guys. LA had nothing to do with Kopitar's development and that was almost 20 years ago at any rate. Who have we developed since then? Toffoli? The only guy on the current roster having any success that we actually developed is Kempe.

I'm hopeful that next year, one of Kaliyev, Kupari, Vilardi, Byfield, or Turcotte will break through and put up a respectable season. Even Kaliyev's 20 points this year isn't much to write home about if we're being totally honest. At 21, Kempe put up 16 goals and 37 points playing 13:20 per game, just 20 seconds more on average than Kaliyev's getting. Kaliyev's on pace for 14 goals and 12 assists.

It's gonna be a real bummer when Vilardi's "disappointing" 10 goals and 23 points in 54 games is the best rookie season of the bunch.

 

[kilowatt]

I do not overvalue our players.
I go by what they pay players in recent past.

If i take the other posters numbers, 2 mill each for Durzi and Anderson, 5 mill for Kempe, they came up with 5 mill cap space.
Using your numbers only leaves 0.5 mill capspace without improving our team in any way.

I'm not concerned about the exact numbers, i am concerned about that we are cornered cap wise as long as we drag the old folks around for no reason.
Having 1.5 mill or 0.5 capspace still means we are right at the cap with very little room for movement.
And you guys numbers are extremely low estimate

Quick's $5.8 million falls off next summer, not to mention Carter's salary coming off the books this summer and Phaneuf's buyout coming off the books next summer.

There's a lot of cap space coming. Kopitar's contract only has two years left after this season, too.

 

[Sol]

Give the kid a bit of a break, he was thrown into the heart of a playoff race when he obviously wasn't prepared to be an effective player. If he had 50 games of NHL experience last year it's very unlikely he would be this bad. Him and the Kings are in a brutal spot with his development because of Blake's decisions with him last year. They can't sit him because he needs games and they can't send him to the AHL and risk him sucking again next year because that could permanently destroy his development. I think he needs to just gain confidence that is only going to come with more NHL games. Unfortunately those NHL games are in high pressure situations where his mistakes are magnified. The Kings probably have a better chance to compete with JAD or Vilardi centering that line, but they are taking the hit for the good of his development, which is fine by me. It didn't have to be this way, but it is what it is.

That’s why I think he needs a sports psychologist because he shouldn’t be playing so poorly so something must be going on. It’s a rough situation but he’s spiraling.

 

[Herby]

It was tongue in cheek, it's certainly looking like sending these kids to the AHL when we've literally never developed an elite player in the AHL was a bad idea. I'm at a loss for words at this point. I wonder whether we should stop trying to draft forward prospects and instead try to trade picks for already-developed guys. LA had nothing to do with Kopitar's development and that was almost 20 years ago at any rate. Who have we developed since then? Toffoli? The only guy on the current roster having any success that we actually developed is Kempe.

I'm hopeful that next year, one of Kaliyev, Kupari, Vilardi, Byfield, or Turcotte will break through and put up a respectable season. Even Kaliyev's 20 points this year isn't much to write home about if we're being totally honest. At 21, Kempe put up 16 goals and 37 points playing 13:20 per game, just 20 seconds more on average than Kaliyev's getting. Kaliyev's on pace for 14 goals and 12 assists.

It's gonna be a real bummer when Vilardi's "disappointing" 10 goals and 23 points in 54 games is the best rookie season of the bunch.

Good post,

Someone asked me why I'd want to tank to let a GM, scouting and development staff that have been so bad finding and/or developing high end forwards to get more shots to draft those types of players. The thing is, you can't just stop trying to draft them though, you need elite forwards, especially elite centers to win SC's. It's like the Chicago Bears with quarterbacks, you have to just keep doing it even if the previous results have been bad, because those are where the holes have been forever for the Kings. That is why I was ok with the Byfield pick at the time, a rebuild can't be successful without a true elite #1 and at the time Gabe's health was still a concern and Turcotte was coming off a year where it became apparent that a 1C was probably not in the cards for him.

It's just crazy how great they are at finding goaltenders and defenseman and how much of a struggle it is with forwards. I wonder if Blake is thinking of bringing in someone new either in evaluation or development that might specialize in getting the most out of forwards. We need a forwards version of Bill Ranford.