Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree because the guys expected to be difference makers in Vilardi, Turcotte and Byfield have greatly disappointed. It's just one guy's rankings, but Wheeler has the Kings pool ranked #2 with QB, Turcotte and Vilardi at numbers 1, 3 and 4 respectively. Talking about how young they are has relevance but declines more as you move from QB down to Vilardi. Bottom line is that aside from Clarke, these three are the "prize" for shitty seasons and I think the plan was for one (or two of them) to be real contributors at this stage of the season. Instead, one guy can't stay healthy, the other was banished to the AHL and switched to wing and the last one looks every bit a Juniors player.

There is so much riding on these guys--especially Byfield--that I lean towards being disappointed more than anything. That said, Kaliyev has been my favorite prospect and I've liked what I've seen from him so there is some positive news on the forward front at the NHL level. The big thing though is that Durzi really surprised out of nowhere and Spence is the rare Kings prospect that matches the message board hype. Faber has seemed like an automatic NHL player since stepping on the ice at the NCAA level and Bjornfot looks every part of an NHL player for years to come.

If Byfield doesn't get there, Clarke becomes unbelievably important. If he is a gamechanger and Blake can make smart trades with all of these assets then we might be in business but missing out on an elite talent with two Top 5 picks, a Top 10 and then #11OA would be brutal no matter how good the later round picks are.

Can't stress enough how important this offseason is for Byfield and Blake. Maybe it is hyperbole but the success of this rebuild probably depends on it.

I don't know about this offseason--personally I'd say by next--but as much as we may disagree on the nuance of it, I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say the rebuild hinges directly on Byfield/Turcotte more than any others. Unless we get a random crazy ass surprise and Helenius becomes Evgeni Malkin or something but barring something extremely unforseen we aren't going anywhere without a top-tier 1C and 2C regardless of how good Clarke turns out (though I'm presuming you're saying turn Clarke into assets which just moves the 'hole' in lottery picks).

And as you've always said, Blake is now hitting the hard part.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wonder what's Drew's injury. At first I thought it was his hand, but I sawing nothing on his hands during Quick's ceremony.

Yeah very strange, like with Mikey and Turcotte. Drew came back into the game and actually finished it though he was definitely hurting. And then DTD. And then IR. And now they're talking about MAYBE getting him back before the playoffs? Did he get a flesh eating disease from Marchand?

I'm not a huge "we deserve to know what's ailing players" guy but the Kings' injury reporting absolutely sucks

 

[2-4 Slashin]

Got news for you, he's the #2 defenseman on THIS team and they are doing pretty damn good.

This! Or does 2nd place in an NHL division not matter? That guy.. Geez, so much LA saltyness in this board. You’d think most teams fans would have forget by now, just how badly we destroyed their favorite team way back when and won a few cups!

 

[crassbonanza]

I have been reading a lot of people mention that this season shows that we are ahead of schedule with the rebuild, but I think that ignores who the players are that are actually contributing. The top 8 scorers on the team are Kopitar, Arviddson, Moore, Kempe, Danault, Doughty, Iafallo and Brown. The age of those players next season will be 35, 29, 27, 26, 30, 33, 29, and 38. Odds are that most of our top scorers will not improve and will actually begin to decline, just based on typical forward scoring rates. This isn't the case of our prospect pool beginning to make major impacts on the roster, this is the case of Blake investing cap space/picks on veteran players. The current team is a bubble team, so not only will some young players need to improve the roster, they will also have to make up for the inevitable decline from the current core. Being on the bubble right now doesn't really scream successful rebuild to me and Blake standing pat at the deadline really signals that we are trying to go down two different paths at the same time.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I have been reading a lot of people mention that this season shows that we are ahead of schedule with the rebuild, but I think that ignores who the players are that are actually contributing. The top 8 scorers on the team are Kopitar, Arviddson, Moore, Kempe, Danault, Doughty, Iafallo and Brown. The age of those players next season will be 35, 29, 27, 26, 30, 33, 29, and 38. Odds are that most of our top scorers will not improve and will actually begin to decline, just based on typical forward scoring rates. This isn't the case of our prospect pool beginning to make major impacts on the roster, this is the case of Blake investing cap space/picks on veteran players. The current team is a bubble team, so not only will some young players need to improve the roster, they will also have to make up for the inevitable decline from the current core. Being on the bubble right now doesn't really scream successful rebuild to me and Blake standing pat at the deadline really signals that we are trying to go down two different paths at the same time.

Where is the definition of ‘rebuild’ does it state you can only do it with players under a certain age? Most of those players you mentioned have also been with the team for a number of years, including the last few abysmal ones, and yet couldn’t sniff a winning record.

Yes, the experienced players are contributing (as they should because they are getting paid to), but the youth sprinkled in has been nothing like we’ve seen in a long time. I’d list them all, but you already know them….the rebuild is coming along nicely and Blake is doing it right.

 

[Schmooley]

Where is the definition of ‘rebuild’ does it state you can only do it with players under a certain age? Most of those players you mentioned have also been with the team for a number of years, including the last few abysmal ones, and yet couldn’t sniff a winning record.

Yes, the experienced players are contributing (as they should because they are getting paid to), but the youth sprinkled in has been nothing like we’ve seen in a long time. I’d list them all, but you already know them….the rebuild is coming along nicely and Blake is doing it right.

You rebuild to place the team in a good position to compete for years. He was pointing out that veterans like Kopitar will most likely decline and guys like Danault and Moore may be having career years point wise. I think he means it may be a paper tiger and possible they regress in the next couple years.

 

[2-4 Slashin]

I don't know about this offseason--personally I'd say by next--but as much as we may disagree on the nuance of it, I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say the rebuild hinges directly on Byfield/Turcotte more than any others. Unless we get a random crazy ass surprise and Helenius becomes Evgeni Malkin or something but barring something extremely unforseen we aren't going anywhere without a top-tier 1C and 2C regardless of how good Clarke turns out (though I'm presuming you're saying turn Clarke into assets which just moves the 'hole' in lottery picks).

And as you've always said, Blake is now hitting the hard part.

I think one of the things that helped Kaliyev and may have hurt the other 3, is that Kaliyev Came to us with a red flag and honest assessment about his two way play. That shortcoming being uttered aloud put the pressure on Player and coaches to fix his game and made the Ontario coaching staff quickly address and work on his deficiencies from day one. With their objective quite clear snd never hidden from him. Or Fagemo for that matter.

Gabe Vilardi came in unknowingly broken. And truthfully, he’s still a work in progress. I have hope for him but I also feel we might be dealing with a true reclamation project that will take time. Sadly we do not seem to have much patience for that kind overhaul as we approach the final phases of the rebuild. And that is a shame, because you can see the skill set he has if you pay attention to his skill set. Play a lifetime At natural center and realizing that that is no longer with your designation is it’s something I would imagine it might take a little while to adapt to.

On Byfield. The real problem I see is that he was viewed as the Golden child. And we seem to have overlooked his age and the fact that he was going to take time to come around to the next level, like most big men do. We’ve also seem to have forgotten the red flag on him from the very beginning was that his youth meant we were going to have to develop him slowly. But no. We went and pulled an Ollie Jokinen game on him and now he’s disappointing many. And because he’s burned a year of his ELC, we probably won’t send him back down for more seasoning. So what if we thought he was too advanced for the a lower league. LA management is not helping his growth with the “we need results now mindset”!
I firmly believed that getting Danault was meant to allow QB more time to develop as much as it was meant to help Kopi extend his career. I hope the Kings braintrust doesn’t give up on Byfield like we did with Jokinen, only to see Ollie become the star and captain he became with Florida! The trade for him was penny’s only the dollar. We’ve done that so many times with players who growth potential we underestimate and whose natural skills we fail to develop properly.
Doing that again, would suck big time for this 45 year fan!!

On Turcotte.. well. I think we just missed the mark on him and should get all we can for him now, before all we can get is a 3rd round pick best case scenario. He’s truly talented, but he can’t sustain the heavy game we play. In my minds eye, It’s just that simple. We didn’t shit the bed in picking him. He’s just not a team system match. And he’s not worth changing the system over.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

GB, check it again man. I was talking about him having 30 goals combined the previous three seasons and being on pace for 25 this season at age 29. That is probably not sustainable next season. Something else to consider when evaluating next years potential team and how the offense will be.

Fair enough, apparently misread it, but yea 100% there is no reason to believe this is a new trend for Danault,

As far as your other comment about not believing kids can flip a switch, that's...generally how it happens, took Troy Terry 4-5 years to flip that switch....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I thought the Kings had an outside chance at the playoffs, but would probably miss them. Now I reeeeally want the Kings to make the playoffs. They still need something like 20 points in 18 games, so it's not a sure thing at all. Kinda hoped the front office would have made a move to get them over the hump, given all the injuries. Would absolutely suck to just miss the playoffs.

True....but being on the outside looking in, we don't know what tires were kicked, or what the asks were, if the ask for Boeser was Clarke, a 1st and Kempe....what do you do? If the ask for Chycrun was a 1st, Byfield, and Vilardi...what do you do?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Anyone listen to Blake's mini presser today? Who is the female who mentioned the Kings lack of toughness. God bless her.

 

[kovacro]

Jeebus, this is quite the trade tree to get to Nogier.

 

[kings11]

Yeah very strange, like with Mikey and Turcotte. Drew came back into the game and actually finished it though he was definitely hurting. And then DTD. And then IR. And now they're talking about MAYBE getting him back before the playoffs? Did he get a flesh eating disease from Marchand?

I'm not a huge "we deserve to know what's ailing players" guy but the Kings' injury reporting absolutely sucks

If you look at the replay, Mikey immediately starts grabbing his lower abdomen.. right above the hip joint..

True....but being on the outside looking in, we don't know what tires were kicked, or what the asks were, if the ask for Boeser was Clarke, a 1st and Kempe....what do you do? If the ask for Chycrun was a 1st, Byfield, and Vilardi...what do you do?

the answer to that Goldie is C… yes, C is the correct answer… you do NADA!

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[Bandit]

Glad we didn’t do anything dumb, but the upcoming offseason is going to be pretty critical. Wish we could have offloaded one or both of AA/Lias but meh.

 

[kingsfan28]

I think one of the things that helped Kaliyev and may have hurt the other 3, is that Kaliyev Came to us with a red flag and honest assessment about his two way play. That shortcoming being uttered aloud put the pressure on Player and coaches to fix his game and made the Ontario coaching staff quickly address and work on his deficiencies from day one. With their objective quite clear snd never hidden from him. Or Fagemo for that matter.

Gabe Vilardi came in unknowingly broken. And truthfully, he’s still a work in progress. I have hope for him but I also feel we might be dealing with a true reclamation project that will take time. Sadly we do not seem to have much patience for that kind overhaul as we approach the final phases of the rebuild. And that is a shame, because you can see the skill set he has if you pay attention to his skill set. Play a lifetime At natural center and realizing that that is no longer with your designation is it’s something I would imagine it might take a little while to adapt to.

On Byfield. The real problem I see is that he was viewed as the Golden child. And we seem to have overlooked his age and the fact that he was going to take time to come around to the next level, like most big men do. We’ve also seem to have forgotten the red flag on him from the very beginning was that his youth meant we were going to have to develop him slowly. But no. We went and pulled an Ollie Jokinen game on him and now he’s disappointing many. And because he’s burned a year of his ELC, we probably won’t send him back down for more seasoning. So what if we thought he was too advanced for the a lower league. LA management is not helping his growth with the “we need results now mindset”!
I firmly believed that getting Danault was meant to allow QB more time to develop as much as it was meant to help Kopi extend his career. I hope the Kings braintrust doesn’t give up on Byfield like we did with Jokinen, only to see Ollie become the star and captain he became with Florida! The trade for him was penny’s only the dollar. We’ve done that so many times with players who growth potential we underestimate and whose natural skills we fail to develop properly.
Doing that again, would suck big time for this 45 year fan!!

On Turcotte.. well. I think we just missed the mark on him and should get all we can for him now, before all we can get is a 3rd round pick best case scenario. He’s truly talented, but he can’t sustain the heavy game we play. In my minds eye, It’s just that simple. We didn’t shit the bed in picking him. He’s just not a team system match. And he’s not worth changing the system over.

The Kings didn't want to move Jokinen, it was Bettman who step in and said the deal wasn't fair enough with the islanders , so Taylor had to include him in the Palfy deal. Imagine him trying to do that today, with all the 5 players for 1 deals going down? I still can't believe he had the power to do that. As for Turcotte, he was drafted right where he was suppose to be, nobody could've predicted his injuries and various illnesses after being drafted, it's just bad luck. Same goes with the Avs pick in Byram, they couldn't have predicted his concussion issues .

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

But no. We went and pulled an Ollie Jokinen game on him and now he’s disappointing many.

So glad you brought up Jokinen, I totally forgot about him and what a great example he is in our current situation.

I took Jokinen almost 400 NHL games before he started producing like a #3 overall pick should -- 5 seasons. And here we are, convinced that a couple of kids who have less than half a season under their belts are busts.

 

[funky]

Glad we didn’t do anything dumb, but the upcoming offseason is going to be pretty critical. Wish we could have offloaded one or both of AA/Lias but meh.

AA hurt long term it seems, but I get your poit.

Not sure what's going on with Lias that we are missing as fans. Goes to Ontario and lights it up then sits on the bench here.

 

[Kurrilino]

Kurri,

It’s to late to try and get more high picks and draft those types of players needed to win cups. That went out the window last summer, whether you agreed with it or not that is the reality of the situation.

And as I told John, trading Alex Turcotte, Gabe Vilardi, Helge Grans or Rasmus Kupari is not going to either prevent us from getting those types of players in trades is not going to prevent us from getting those players if they hypothetically became available or going to make us suck enough to get into the top 5.

The Kings rebuild is going to need to copy the Blues rather than the previous Kings one, Hawks, Pens etc. let’s see in 4-5 years how it looks.

Well the fact is more or less if Kempe gets his 5+ mill we are against the cap.
While being against the cap we have a team that is in no kind or shape able to compete for the cup.

One of the biggest reason for that is our core that doesn't have the skillset anymore but are paid like they are top players.
As long as this is going on, there is no reason to invest into the team since it's going nowhere anyways.

I stand with my opinion, give them a chance to waive their clauses and trade them to contenders or ride the contracts out and just fill the team
with the likes of AA or Wolanin.
Until this core is gone from the team and we get a clearer look of what the future team look like, we keep the youngsters in the AHL growing into their bodies.

I agree this is a horrible choice but still better than an eternal kicking or screaming towards may or not maybe playoff without any chance to get close to the cup.

 

[kovacro]

AA hurt long term it seems, but I get your poit.

Not sure what's going on with Lias that we are missing as fans. Goes to Ontario and lights it up then sits on the bench here.

Admittedly, I have not seen much of him, if any this year. How is his 200' game? Could it simply be an attitude thing? Commitment/compete at the next level? Some guys don't have to work hard in the minors but when they get to the next level, it's too much and they don't want to put in the work.

 

[motalar]

Anyone listen to Blake's mini presser today? Who is the female who mentioned the Kings lack of toughness. God bless her.

Lisa mentioned in her article in the Athletic that she had asked that question. McClellan seemed to kind of sidestep with his answer, though.

 

[KingsFan7824]

AA hurt long term it seems, but I get your poit.

Not sure what's going on with Lias that we are missing as fans. Goes to Ontario and lights it up then sits on the bench here.

TJ Tynan is a tremendous AHL point producer. James Neal is averging almost a goal per game in the AHL.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Well the fact is more or less if Kempe gets his 5+ mill we are against the cap.
While being against the cap we have a team that is in no kind or shape able to compete for the cup.

One of the biggest reason for that is our core that doesn't have the skillset anymore but are paid like they are top players.
As long as this is going on, there is no reason to invest into the team since it's going nowhere anyways.

I stand with my opinion, give them a chance to waive their clauses and trade them to contenders or ride the contracts out and just fill the team
with the likes of AA or Wolanin.
Until this core is gone from the team and we get a clearer look of what the future team look like, we keep the youngsters in the AHL growing into their bodies.

I agree this is a horrible choice but still better than an eternal kicking or screaming towards may or not maybe playoff without any chance to get close to the cup.

May have to cut cap to fit a difference maker in. Assume 32, 40, 11, 8 not getting moved for cap purposes.
(19, 9)/???/(34, 13)
12/24/33
55/11/89
48/46/???
Something like this where a good center is added makes some sense. Start looking at positions,
RW 13, 34, 33, 89 should all be top 9, 3 spots.
C, 11 & 55 need to be sheltered. Need 2 top 6 C's. Someone moving to wing.
LW 9, 19, 12, (55, 11) 4X centers for 3 spots means someone is playing wing. Gives you 4 LW.

Guys can be shifted, maybe they don't add a center, but it becomes obvious where the redundant pieces that can be trimmed are.

 

[NikF]

The success of a rebuild often hinges on which spots you get in the draft and which players are available at that spot. Sometimes you draft the "right" players but you just didn't have the chance to even draft the franchise pieces you needed, simply because they were not available. The Kings presumably took Byfield over Stutzle or someone else for that reason - Byfield looked like he *could* be a franchise piece if everything worked out, while with Stutzle everyone knew he would turn into a very good player, but not a franchise-changing one.

People forget DL also drafted Hickey who did nothing for the Kings at 4 overall. What really happened there is he had two franchise players already in the system in Kopitar and Quick and lucked into the third one with Doughty. Because I don't think goalies are *that* important, even just Kopitar and Doughty are a franchise-altering combination for any team out there. You can afford multiple mistakes and adaptations when you get arguably the generation's best defenenseman and the generation's top 10 center in your system for the duration of their careers.

Is there a Doughty or a Kopitar in this group? Who knows, Byfield would need to see massive growth but the potential is there, maybe Clarke is the guy. But in reality the years of sucking have not brought a player you could comfortably project there. Because...I'm not sure that player even was available in the Kings slots. I think the Kings at the spots they were, they knew they needed someone who could change the franchise as a cornerstone piece, not merely a very good player. They probably saw Turcotte as kind of Mike Richards and Byfield as the next big dominant #1 center, Clarke as the next difference-maker from the back-end. It might turn out that they are not all that and the rebuild fails to produce a Cup winner or contender. But if you look at those drafts, you really have to ask yourself whether a Doughty or Kopitar was even available at their picks. That is a franchise defenseman or a franchise center, the only one that might fit the bill is Moritz Seider. So with the picks they had and the draft classes available...I'm not even sure if there was a combination there that would generate the Kings two franchise pieces in key positions (C/D).

Beyond that, it's clear this team does a far better job developing defensemen than forwards. Ironically, it might turn out that despite the plethora of high center picks they made, the piece that they end up missing is a franchise center. If Byfield isn't that guy it's going to be a problem because it's becoming increasingly probable neither Turcotte or Vilardi are going to fill that role either. Kaliyev seems to be the forward prospect doing the best so far and he is pretty similar to one of the few top line forwards they have developed in Toffoli in that they both had natural and complete offensive games but lacked in the overall game and footspeed departments. My theory is that the Kings development is good at giving structure and improving the details of overall game, which is why so many defensemen develop nicely and forwards who already boast complete or special offensive skillsets (both Kaliyev and Toffoli are great shooters with great offensive instincts) but lack the polish to make it work at pro-level. The Kings develop those players well, but don't seem to be able to draw out offense out of different offensive players who might have needed a different approach. In my opinion, Turcotte is being bred for a depth character player rather than a Justin Williams or Mike Richards type. A player who thrives on energy and responsibility, should probably be pushed in that direction, he doesn't need "detail" work or "figuring things out" playing behind vets in AHL. I think this is the year where Ontario should have been Turcotte's team but that hasn't materialized and then he has injury issues as well which is obviously a concern. I'm not sure they will be able to handle Byfield the correct way either and keep his confidence up when the results aren't coming. Not sure Vilardi was handled correctly either, they will need to make a decision on him soon and they didn't even try him at RW with the team's top talent, which I think is something Vilardi could benefit from as a highly cerebral offensive player that seems to think the game at a very high level and utilizes his skill to take advantage, he seems to get down on himself when he can't play his way and make it work and he obviously can't play that game on 3rd line with 3rd line talent. He's just not that type of player.

I hope Byfield turns into a beast, otherwise this is probably going to turn into one of those Nashville Predators teams or similar: a strong defensive and checking team that's good for a playoff round or two but lacks a creative and dominant offensive touch. But what I think it really boils down to is that they really needed at least one franchise piece and I'm not sure they got one. Could still be a very good team.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Anyone listen to Blake's mini presser today? Who is the female who mentioned the Kings lack of toughness. God bless her.

I am sure it MUST be the same one that asked Carter this, on the last game of the season post game Q&A:
"Are you planning to retire?" (WOW)
Jeff: "No, I have 3 years left on my contract"
Had to have been the same female. Lisa Dillman? Helene not Helen?