Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Herby]

Lack of high-end talent? What talent are you referring to as lacking? The kids who aren't even old enough to drink a beer?

What player were you expecting Blake to acquire exactly?

Yes that type of talent.

The type of talent Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Victor Hedman and Steve Stamkos were before they were old enough to drink

The type of talent Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Alexander Ovechkin and Nick Backstrom were before they were old enough to drink.

There are 11 of your last 13 Stanley Cup champions. If that is the goal (and I assume we all agree it is) the most important part is having Hall of Fame players at the top. And all those players taken with high picks, all but Kopitar in the top 5. And you wonder why I am
so down on Turcotte, you just have to get everything out of those elite picks, especially when a rebuild only has 2, you can’t draft a limited player with a big heart and expect the rebuild to have the pieces needed.

I’m not saying Blake was going to acquire a Hall of Famer today but it’s the elephant in the room in the rebuild. People ask me why I’m pessimistic about the rebuild it’s because I fail to see anyone that is close to any one of those players. This is more like the Frolov, Cammalleri, Gleason, Aulin, Grebeshkov rebuild than the Kopitar and Doughty one.

To answer your question. I’d have liked to see LA try it’s best to acquire JC, Garland or Boeser even if the cost was considered higher than they’d have liked

 

[KINGS17]

I don't disagree with @Herby very often but I have thought from the outset that this season was not "playoffs or bust" but rather the following:

- Be in the thick of the playoff race
- Have the top-flight prospects, sans Clarke, push for spots and/or become key contributors allowing Blake to know what he has on his hands

Danault is a long-term signing even if this might be the best season he ever puts up. He is supposed to eventually be an elite 3C or 2B center to one of the young guys. Arvi was cheap and a case of Blake having dry powder and taking advantage of a situation. If he kept sucking, no big deal.

The problem is that the top-flight prospects--except for Kaliyev--have been very disappointing so Blake either still doesn't know what he has at the forward position or he knows it isn't what he hoped it would be. The counter to this is that Sean Durzi is playing 25 minutes a night right now, Spence has jumped in and looked legit and Bjornfot was really coming along. Forward was supposed to be the strength of this prospect pool but it definitely looks like a shift has taken place and Blake is going to have to adjust on the fly.

Make no mistake: they want to make the playoffs but the lack of activity here at the deadline should confirm what I've thought since the start of the season--they did not go "all-in" with the Danault and Arvi moves. Whether they make or miss the playoffs, the biggest weaknesses will look to be addressed in the off-season and Blake is going to have to finally move on from some of his children.

What they couldn't have this season was a repeat of last year. Even with a complete collapse here down the stretch, said potential collapse will be pinned on injuries.

I agree with what you were hoping for going into the season. However, I was looking for one of the kids to break through and provide a larger contribution to the offense. That not happening is a disappointment.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Yes that type of talent.

The type of talent Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Victor Hedman and Steve Stamkos were before they were old enough to drink

The type of talent Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Alexander Ovechkin and Nick Backstrom were before they were old enough to drink.

There are 11 of your last 13 Stanley Cup champions. If that is the goal (and I assume we all agree it is) the most important part is having Hall of Fame players at the top. And all those players taken with high picks, all but Kopitar in the top 5. And you wonder why I am
so down on Turcotte, you just have to get everything out of those elite picks, especially when a rebuild only has 2, you can’t draft a limited player with a big heart and expect the rebuild to have the pieces needed.

I’m not saying Blake was going to acquire a Hall of Famer today but it’s the elephant in the room in the rebuild. People ask me why I’m pessimistic about the rebuild it’s because I fail to see anyone that is close to any one of those players. This is more like the Frolov, Cammalleri, Gleason, Aulin, Grebeshkov rebuild than the Kopitar and Doughty one.

To answer your question. I’d have liked to see LA try it’s best to acquire JC, Garland or Boeser even if the cost was considered higher than they’d have liked

Dude, the Kings aren't winning a cup this year -- and most likely not next year or the year after that either. So, you think overpaying for one of those players when you can prob have them for much cheaper in the offseason, is going to change that?

HIschier, Dahlin, Hughes, Lafrieniere and Power are your last 5 overall #1 picks. I don't see any of those teams closer to the cup, with the exception of NYR. Hell, Matthews and Mcdavid, being probably the best players in the WORLD, have been in the league for years now and still can't win anything.

 

[KingsFan7824]

You think Doughty and Roy are done for the rest of the season? Durzi and Spence really getting their shot to earn a role for the future. Also wouldnt mind seeing Clarke and Faber get a look when they are eligible.

That's what the 3 RHD brought in say to me. I have no actual info, but if Strand and Spence were going to be back in Ontario before the AHL playoffs, why make those deals? The Reign should be pretty much locked in, but their D has been rapidly depleted.

 

[BringTheReign]

This is where someone like Bland and I see eye to see. I've said numerous times I care about building a cup winner, not a Dave Taylor 7th seed and out team. I'll cheer on this team and hope they win and enjoy the 5-12 playoff games they'll likely play but it can still be a step back year in the overall rebuild. I would have traded this seasons results with the Sharks if it meant two of the Kings four first round picks took a big step towards being impact players in the NHL. I don't know how long you've been a fan, but I kind of look at this season as similar to 97-98. The Kings brought in some vets and made the playoffs, but Berg, Jokinen, Storr, MacLean, Rosa and Yachmenev who were the big shot prospects at the time all failed to live up to the hype. I think people often times underestimate how quickly young players go from prospects to either stars or busts. For every one Troy Terry who finds it late at 24 there are twenty Aki Berg's, Jeff Tambellini's and Jared Aulin's who dont.

Maybe my pessimism will be proven wrong next season and guys like Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari and JAD suddenly find an offensive game in the NHL. I'm not pessimistic or optimistic on QB, I see both sides of the argument. I actually could see him exploding next season because its not a matter of skill like with Turcotte or skating with Vilardi, I think it's more mental and that can be more easily overcome. Just saying he needs to take a step to like the 40-45 range at minimum or the red flags are real.

Appreciate the in-depth response, and I'll admit that I am likely wearing some rose-colored glasses on the forward prospects a bit. I take your point about the 97-98 season, but I guess I just have more faith in our scouting and development now than I did back then. That could be ill-founded, and probably somewhat is the case with forwards versus defensemen.

I do completely agree that next year is make-or-break for those players both in terms of their future projections and potential trade value. It'll be interesting to see if Blake can parlay any of their AHL success into JAD, Vilardi, or others being key pieces of a trade this summer as many have been speculating a la Chychrun, Boeser, Garland, etc.

 

[johnjm22]

Yes that type of talent.

The type of talent Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Victor Hedman and Steve Stamkos were before they were old enough to drink

The type of talent Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Alexander Ovechkin and Nick Backstrom were before they were old enough to drink.

There are 11 of your last 13 Stanley Cup champions. If that is the goal (and I assume we all agree it is) the most important part is having Hall of Fame players at the top. And all those players taken with high picks, all but Kopitar in the top 5. And you wonder why I am
so down on Turcotte, you just have to get everything out of those elite picks, especially when a rebuild only has 2, you can’t draft a limited player with a big heart and expect the rebuild to have the pieces needed.

I’m not saying Blake was going to acquire a Hall of Famer today but it’s the elephant in the room in the rebuild. People ask me why I’m pessimistic about the rebuild it’s because I fail to see anyone that is close to any one of those players. This is more like the Frolov, Cammalleri, Gleason, Aulin, Grebeshkov rebuild than the Kopitar and Doughty one.

To answer your question. I’d have liked to see LA try it’s best to acquire JC, Garland or Boeser even if the cost was considered higher than they’d have liked

I don't understand how the last sentence of your post is compatible with the rest of what you're saying.

Giving up assets for Chychrun, Garland or Boeser just makes it harder to get the elite talent that we need. Those are 'Closer to the playoffs, further from the Stanley Cup' type moves.

Kings shouldn't be blowing their load for mediocre players.

 

[BringTheReign]

The only piece I wouldn’t have minded was Copp but he’s a ufa and who knows what he’s asking for. But Chychrun, Boeser, Garland, Sanheim, Provorov, Koenecy, Soucy, Eberle,Bertuzzi, all the pieces I thought would work or talked about to the Kings didn’t move so I’m ok with the deadline.

So many injuries it’s hard to acquire when bodies maybe back in a few weeks then possibly lose people to waivers.

It doesn't sound like Sanheim will be moving given that they re-signed Ristolainen. Apparently Philly's brass loves that pairing. It's a shame as I'd have loved acquiring him more than anyone else on your list (relative to what he'd cost versus others on it).

 

[Schmooley]

That's what the 3 RHD brought in say to me. I have no actual info, but if Strand and Spence were going to be back in Ontario before the AHL playoffs, why make those deals? The Reign should be pretty much locked in, but their D has been rapidly depleted.

Yeesh! So you think the Kings are gonna be down the stretch here running
Edler-Stetcher
Maatta-Durzi
Moverare-Spence
Strand
And Bjornfot comes back soon I think? Anderson out longer term also?

 

[Herby]

Dude, the Kings aren't winning a cup this year -- and most likely not next year or the year after that either. So, you think overpaying for one of those players when you can prob have them for much cheaper in the offseason, is going to change that?

HIschier, Dahlin, Hughes, Lafrieniere and Power are your last 5 overall #1 picks. I don't see any of those teams closer to the cup, with the exception of NYR. Hell, Matthews and Mcdavid, being probably the best players in the WORLD, have been in the league for years now and still can't win anything.

I wasn't talking about winning the cup this year or next year. You seem to think I am worried about the short term, when in reality its the exact oppose, I'm way more worried about the long game and the talent in this rebuild and whether it will be enough, that is what my post was about in regards to being pessimistic or a debbie downer. I'd rather be the worst team in the NHL next year than win the division and lose in the 2nd round.

The vast majority of teams who have won the SC have done it with multiple Hall of Famers and almost all of those taken at the top of the draft, so that seems to be the recipe.

Who are LA's likely Hall of Famers?
Is LA's rebuild going to get another pick where its likely to draft one?

is that discussion valid?

Edit: And didn't say having Top 5 picks or Hall of Famers guaranteed a cup, just that in the vast majority of cases it is needed to win one.

 

[RocketKing]

He left the ice, took another shift and looked fine, then was out. I thought he just had the wind knocked out of him. Something must've broke.

My thought was a busted rib.

 

[BigKing]

I agree with what you were hoping for going into the season. However, I was looking for one of the kids to break through and provide a larger contribution to the offense. That not happening is a disappointment.

I agree because the guys expected to be difference makers in Vilardi, Turcotte and Byfield have greatly disappointed. It's just one guy's rankings, but Wheeler has the Kings pool ranked #2 with QB, Turcotte and Vilardi at numbers 1, 3 and 4 respectively. Talking about how young they are has relevance but declines more as you move from QB down to Vilardi. Bottom line is that aside from Clarke, these three are the "prize" for shitty seasons and I think the plan was for one (or two of them) to be real contributors at this stage of the season. Instead, one guy can't stay healthy, the other was banished to the AHL and switched to wing and the last one looks every bit a Juniors player.

There is so much riding on these guys--especially Byfield--that I lean towards being disappointed more than anything. That said, Kaliyev has been my favorite prospect and I've liked what I've seen from him so there is some positive news on the forward front at the NHL level. The big thing though is that Durzi really surprised out of nowhere and Spence is the rare Kings prospect that matches the message board hype. Faber has seemed like an automatic NHL player since stepping on the ice at the NCAA level and Bjornfot looks every part of an NHL player for years to come.

If Byfield doesn't get there, Clarke becomes unbelievably important. If he is a gamechanger and Blake can make smart trades with all of these assets then we might be in business but missing out on an elite talent with two Top 5 picks, a Top 10 and then #11OA would be brutal no matter how good the later round picks are.

Can't stress enough how important this offseason is for Byfield and Blake. Maybe it is hyperbole but the success of this rebuild probably depends on it.

 

[Herby]

I don't understand how the last sentence of your post is compatible with the rest of what you're saying.

Giving up assets for Chychrun, Garland or Boeser just makes it harder to get the elite talent that we need. Those are 'Closer to the playoffs, further from the Stanley Cup' type moves.

Kings shouldn't be blowing their load for mediocre players.

Players like the ones listed would have needed to be drafted with our four top 10 picks between 2017 and 2021. Those types of players are rarely traded or hit free agency and if they did LA would need to offer up pieces it wouldn't offer for Garland, JC or Boeser, specifically Byfield *AND* Clarke. Trading Turcotte, Kupari, Grans would not prevent the Kings from trading for say Auston Matthews if he were to hypothetically become available.

 

[Schmooley]

I wasn't talking about winning the cup this year or next year. You seem to think I am worried about the short term, when in reality its the exact oppose, I'm way more worried about the long game and the talent in this rebuild and whether it will be enough, that is what my post was about in regards to being pessimistic or a debbie downer. I'd rather be the worst team in the NHL next year than win the division and lose in the 2nd round.

The vast majority of teams who have won the SC have done it with multiple Hall of Famers and almost all of those taken at the top of the draft, so that seems to be the recipe.

Who are LA's likely Hall of Famers?
Is LA's rebuild going to get another pick where its likely to draft one?

is that discussion valid?

The defensive prospect pool is looking great. They could use a nice left d for the long term outlook and also a high end goalie prospect or two. If the talent drafted on offense wont amount to much they have a couple options.
Send some of them out for the Garland/Boeser types and ride the veterans. This will likely mean blackhole or second roundish exits much like Minnesota has been for the last decade. Good team on paper and always play solid but just never enough to beat the real top contenders.
Or another option is they start selling off Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Iafallo, Roy and hit the bottom of the standings again hoping to hit on their top picks this time around.
I think theres still time for Byfield Kaliyev Turcotte Kupari and a little time left for Vilardi and Andersson to take a step forward so Id hang on a little while longer personally. I just think continuing the direction they are going will implode where they keep forcing Kopitar (probably be resigned) and Doughty as the main players and theyll hit a wall and there will be no one ready to take the reigns because they were treated as grinders and brought up in a system that was made for a certain type of player.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No. I wanted to play the young players and suck this season and get a high pick to add to the rebuild. But I am just analyzing where they currently are in the standings with the moves made last summer with an attempt to make the playoffs. I wanted to add a player who can help now and in the future and dump some of the excess.

Why do you think Kupari won't stay? He has been the best of the four 1st round centers this season, IMO.

I think more roster spots are locked in for next season than you think.

Do you think it's coincidence that order of effectiveness roughly reflects draft year in chronological order?

Because you sure have short patience for the younger ones but here you are pumping the oldest one.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeesh! So you think the Kings are gonna be down the stretch here running
Edler-Stetcher
Maatta-Durzi
Moverare-Spence
Strand
And Bjornfot comes back soon I think? Anderson out longer term also?

Anderson was listed as 6-8 weeks on one of those tweets in one of these posts. Doughty, they have to reevaluate. No word on Roy.

To me, that's exactly what the defense is looking like for a while. Why else makes 3 very minor moves for very depth D, while doing nothing else at all?

Blake sees the writing on the wall, and is just willing to give the kids a chance. If they manage to make it, great. But, he probably wouldn't be shocked if the fall out at this point.

 

[bland]

Every stinking year there is elite talent available on the market. Every year. It makes no sense to buy it now when even the question marks have question marks.

 

[Herby]

Do you think it's coincidence that order of effectiveness roughly reflects draft year in chronological order?

Because you sure have short patience for the younger ones but here you are pumping the oldest one.

Not true.

Kupari is younger than Vilardi. And QB is younger but has looked better than Gabe and Turcotte. And let’s be honest I wasn’t saying he’s been amazing or anything. He is competing with 3 guys who have 5 combined points in 43 games. But for a #20 pick in a not great draft he is the least of the concerns with any of those players. He can be a third line player and not effect the success of the rebuild.

 

[King'sPawn]

Every stinking year there is elite talent available on the market. Every year. It makes no sense to buy it now when even the question marks have question marks.

Yup. There were no moves to be made to fix what's ailing the Kings. It needs to be fixed internally.

 

[funky]

just remember that Byfield’s draft was not expected to turn out any superstars. The scouting community as a whole thought Lafreniere’s upside might be a Huberdeau and Byfield would likely be a 65 to 70 point, big bodied two way player. We were not handed a McDavid or Crosby.

Byfield was also concerned very raw and immature. We are definitely saying that. Prospects are no longer expected to walk right into the NHL like they used to be. Three to five years to get on track is the new timeline unless you draft an exceptional talent. There will always be top busts and there will always be guys that arrive early.

Give Byfield a few more years to at least fill out. His processing speed looks more like a Commadore 64 then a Mac at this point. Let the kid at least have some time to figure things out.

Our much talked about Defenceman that we so called developed better are 22 years old with the exception of Bjornfot who played in a mens league before the Kings came calling and right now is no more then a bottom pairing Dman that has room to grow. Not much different then Byfield on the 3rd and Kaliyev on the 4th.

Durzi is way older and still can’t play Defence while Anderson can play Defence but no offence.

We have to simmer our hopes on the recent draft picks.

Kupari is a later first. Missed a season with a blown up knee.

Turcotte has been a bandaid. Let him get healthy and get reps

Vilardi didn’t have a spine and was pronounced DOA by half this board two years ago.

Kaliyev had never met his goalie outside the locker room.

There has been growth in all these players. Just not at the rate we hope for

 

[kings11]

Not sure if this was posted already, but if Doughty is gone for the season, what are we to do? Perhaps we should have been sellers. Rough position to be in if you’re Blake. You’ve got a playoff team that can’t ice a full roster.

You never give up on a playoff run, especially when you’re in 2nd place.. the defensive kids in some instances have been better than some of our starters.. you simply keep playing hard and just maintain..

 

[lumbergh]

100%....but last summer, did you think they were in this position or not? Raccoon said this before, Kings are literally playing with house money at this point

I thought the Kings had an outside chance at the playoffs, but would probably miss them. Now I reeeeally want the Kings to make the playoffs. They still need something like 20 points in 18 games, so it's not a sure thing at all. Kinda hoped the front office would have made a move to get them over the hump, given all the injuries. Would absolutely suck to just miss the playoffs.

 

[Kurrilino]

Yes that type of talent.

The type of talent Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Victor Hedman and Steve Stamkos were before they were old enough to drink

The type of talent Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were before they were old enough to drink.

The type of talent Alexander Ovechkin and Nick Backstrom were before they were old enough to drink.

There are 11 of your last 13 Stanley Cup champions. If that is the goal (and I assume we all agree it is) the most important part is having Hall of Fame players at the top. And all those players taken with high picks, all but Kopitar in the top 5. And you wonder why I am
so down on Turcotte, you just have to get everything out of those elite picks, especially when a rebuild only has 2, you can’t draft a limited player with a big heart and expect the rebuild to have the pieces needed.

I’m not saying Blake was going to acquire a Hall of Famer today but it’s the elephant in the room in the rebuild. People ask me why I’m pessimistic about the rebuild it’s because I fail to see anyone that is close to any one of those players. This is more like the Frolov, Cammalleri, Gleason, Aulin, Grebeshkov rebuild than the Kopitar and Doughty one.

To answer your question. I’d have liked to see LA try it’s best to acquire JC, Garland or Boeser even if the cost was considered higher than they’d have liked

I can't follow here.

So you want to give up our future for players that make us end the season at #21 instead of #23 but you also complain that
the real cool players are drafted with top 3 picks.

I'm sure these 2 approaches clash somehow with each other.

I absolutely agree that we need to draft higher talent and always asked to ride out the senior citizens contracts.
Until then, pair them with low talent players to guarantee high draft picks or they ask for a trade and waive their protection clause,
while the kids develop in the NHL and stay far away from the train wreck.

I'm good with either. This limbo of barely in and out of playoff is helping absolutely nobody in the long run

 

[Kurrilino]

I agree with what you were hoping for going into the season. However, I was looking for one of the kids to break through and provide a larger contribution to the offense. That not happening is a disappointment.

I can tell you right now that no player on this world would show scoring abilities when constantly pinned to the board.
As long as we keep entering the o-zone already at boards, we could draft for McJesus or Crosby and still not win games.

This is a mindset and coaching issue.
As long as you already on the boards, there is only 1 way to the goal and every defender knows it.
This leads to our trademark move, always shooting from a very difficult angle almost at the goal line.

 

[Herby]

I can't follow here.

So you want to give up our future for players that make us end the season at #21 instead of #23 but you also complain that
the real cool players are drafted with top 3 picks.

I'm sure these 2 approaches clash somehow with each other.

I absolutely agree that we need to draft higher talent and always asked to ride out the senior citizens contracts.
Until then, pair them with low talent players to guarantee high draft picks or they ask for a trade and waive their protection clause,
while the kids develop in the NHL and stay far away from the train wreck.

I'm good with either. This limbo of barely in and out of playoff is helping absolutely nobody in the long run

Kurri,

It’s to late to try and get more high picks and draft those types of players needed to win cups. That went out the window last summer, whether you agreed with it or not that is the reality of the situation.

And as I told John, trading Alex Turcotte, Gabe Vilardi, Helge Grans or Rasmus Kupari is not going to either prevent us from getting those types of players in trades is not going to prevent us from getting those players if they hypothetically became available or going to make us suck enough to get into the top 5.

The Kings rebuild is going to need to copy the Blues rather than the previous Kings one, Hawks, Pens etc. let’s see in 4-5 years how it looks.

 

[Little Psycho]

I wonder what's Drew's injury. At first I thought it was his hand, but I sawing nothing on his hands during Quick's ceremony.