Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[No Name The Nameless]

I see Hoven hurt you.

Nope. I’m an ESPN radio host. I’m small but I have many national acquaintances. I’ve seen behind the media curtain. I’ve seen the politics involved in the game.

In regards to my opinion about Hoven: I consume everything that he opines and I am glad to have Kings news daily. He’s doing it well.

 

[bland]

Well, at least he's observant re: getting vets out of the way sometimes--TM on the Byfield/Vilardi/Kupari setup:

"“There are situations you have to consider the situations with other players and where they have excelled or not excelled,” he said. “I call it the kid line right now, is balanced when it comes to stress, they’re all in the same ballpark, they don’t feel like they have to honor a veteran or anything like that and sometimes that’s really healthy. I’ve seen a lot of communication out of those guys that maybe wasn’t there before, they’re starting to talk and communicate, have faceoff plans, it’s a really good sign.”"

AKA they're taking the bull by the horns instead of deferring to a veteran or following someone else's leadership, this is what some of us are looking for when we want these guys to go out and get big minutes, not just to be a sidekick. Maybe he'll be more open to mixing it up like that from here on out (i.e. the Kaliyev-Danault-Moore thing wa s agood start of something many of us had hoped for at the beginning of the year as another example).

Funny, this is exactly what we have been talking about for years and years, and it isn't even just about one line, its the whole team. Its the devil of longterm contracts in stark relief - the older, now faded Cup core veterans have too much clout in presence alone, much less active decision making.

The organization isn't going to take a major step forward until they and their influence is replaced by the kids. The longer they are kept deferring in support positions, the worse off they will be - the kids have been developed to be safe and fit into supporting roles instead of being allowed to play up to their abilities. That can't happen without suffering first, its all part and parcel of the rebuild.

You have to be willing to accept loses while building, but patronizing and lionizing the vets hasn't been a bridge to the future as much as slapping one coat of paint on a rusty door.

 

[King'sPawn]

I wasn’t responding to that scenario. I was replying to the argument about Blake. With that said, I believe that much of these reports are opinion mascarading as sourced facts.I’m not trying to be insulting. That’s part of the business.

The scenario is Hoven having opinions (and sometimes facts) based on different sources of information from within the org and other personnel in the hockey circuit.

The scenario portrayed by some to discredit Hoven is "he doesn't have access to information, because Blake wouldn't talk to him."

There is a degree of tea leaves reading. Sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it's right. But it's like this for journalists as well as bloggers.

If you don't like his work, no problem. But this whole thing began with "Blake wouldn't talk to him," as if that is the only way Hoven can get any tangible or meaningful information to base his remarks on.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I am glad to have Kings news daily. He’s doing it well.

Is this a podcast? Where do I find it?

 

[BringTheReign]

It was good to see TMac complimenting the kid line after practice yesterday. I hope they’re kept together, feel like it could end up paying off tremendously down the stretch.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The scenario is Hoven having opinions (and sometimes facts) based on different sources of information from within the org and other personnel in the hockey circuit.

The scenario portrayed by some to discredit Hoven is "he doesn't have access to information, because Blake wouldn't talk to him."

There is a degree of tea leaves reading. Sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it's right. But it's like this for journalists as well as bloggers.

If you don't like his work, no problem. But this whole thing began with "Blake wouldn't talk to him," as if that is the only way Hoven can get any tangible or meaningful information to base his remarks on.

Blake has been on Hoven's podcast this year...and they've been pretty good interviews. Can't say the same about the Bannerman bozos or any other podcast clowns.

 

[YAYSAY]

Funny, this is exactly what we have been talking about for years and years, and it isn't even just about one line, its the whole team. Its the devil of longterm contracts in stark relief - the older, now faded Cup core veterans have too much clout in presence alone, much less active decision making.

The organization isn't going to take a major step forward until they and their influence is replaced by the kids. The longer they are kept deferring in support positions, the worse off they will be - the kids have been developed to be safe and fit into supporting roles instead of being allowed to play up to their abilities. That can't happen without suffering first, its all part and parcel of the rebuild.

You have to be willing to accept loses while building, but patronizing and lionizing the vets hasn't been a bridge to the future as much as slapping one coat of paint on a rusty door.

Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised to see a regression of the team in a season or two when the vets are even older and the kids who were never given the keys and thus don't know how to drive. Hopefully the kid line can have success and make a name for themselves.

 

[bland]

The scenario is Hoven having opinions (and sometimes facts) based on different sources of information from within the org and other personnel in the hockey circuit.

The scenario portrayed by some to discredit Hoven is "he doesn't have access to information, because Blake wouldn't talk to him."

There is a degree of tea leaves reading. Sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it's right. But it's like this for journalists as well as bloggers.

If you don't like his work, no problem. But this whole thing began with "Blake wouldn't talk to him," as if that is the only way Hoven can get any tangible or meaningful information to base his remarks on.

I don't have a horse in this race, but just want to point out that we are leaving (or have maybe already left) an era of journalism and entered into the world of blogging. Most of us are old enough to remember pure journslism and the credibility it instilled.

Bloggers don't have the same credibility. Too much opinion presented as reporting, and it pressures the reader/listener to decide how much merit they want or don't want to place.

I consider it my responsibility to decide how much faith I put in this new found version of the estate, and my decision right now is to reject it as unfounded and unsupported opinion until proven otherwise.

Journalism relies on credibility. We don't have that with the blogging crews yet. I just hope that the bloggers understand this and don't expect or demand to be respected as journalists because while we are in this uncomfortable middle ground of reporting/influencing it is going to take some time to sort out what's what and that is 100% based on accuracy.

I just don't care what a blogger may or may not have heard, who they heard it from or how they are choosing to put those 2 and 2's together. I don't give it any more credibility than the average message board poster - many of whom actually have better track records.

 

[bland]

Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised to see a regression of the team in a season or two when the vets are even older and the kids who were never given the keys and thus don't know how to drive. Hopefully the kid line can have success and make a name for themselves.

Its already happening. The vets can still play sone damn good hockey on their day, but over the course of a season, just too much mileage.

I expect a big drop off next year, which is why I think this year's priority should have been about acclimating as many of the kids as possible instead of chasing the playoffs as a last roundup for the ol' gang.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Is this a podcast? Where do I find it?

My show or his? I was talking about his daily content. My show is a fantasy sports show in Mo and Arkansas.

 

[JeanBlanc]

Is this a podcast? Where do I find it?

Mayor's Manor blog
John Hoven on Twitter (for daily content)
Kings of the Podcast

 

[FSL KINGS]

4 days until the deadline & the only conversation is about Hoven. Guess we aren't doing anything exciting.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't have a horse in this race, but just want to point out that we are leaving (or have maybe already left) an era of journalism and entered into the world of blogging. Most of us are old enough to remember pure journslism and the credibility it instilled.

Bloggers don't have the same credibility. Too much opinion presented as reporting, and it pressures the reader/listener to decide how much merit they want or don't want to place.

I consider it my responsibility to decide how much faith I put in this new found version of the estate, and my decision right now is to reject it as unfounded and unsupported opinion until proven otherwise.

Journalism relies on credibility. We don't have that with the blogging crews yet. I just hope that the bloggers understand this and don't expect or demand to be respected as journalists because while we are in this uncomfortable middle ground of reporting/influencing it is going to take some time to sort out what's what and that is 100% based on accuracy.

I just don't care what a blogger may or may not have heard, who they heard it from or how they are choosing to put those 2 and 2's together. I don't give it any more credibility than the average message board poster - many of whom actually have better track records.

That's fair. I'm not saying you have to take Hoven's word as gospel. You're all intelligent enough to come to your conclusions.

I'm just pushing back on:
- the notion that Blake is the only person who has an inkling of what direction the Kings are going
- the idea that Hoven doesn't have resources that help him formulate an informed opinion.

Nobody is saying that Hoven (or Jesse, Zach Dooley, etc) are getting all the dirty details straight from Blake's mouth. But there are circles in hockey and they talk to each other. Not just in LA, but across the league and even in juniors.

Don't like the content? Unfortunate but understandable.

Don't believe that Hoven (or any of the recognized LA bloggers) is actually speaking with a variety of resources they trust to give an honest assessment? Then I feel the air needs to be cleared.

 

[JeanBlanc]

Don't believe that Hoven (or any of the recognized LA bloggers) is actually speaking with a variety of resources they trust to give an honest assessment? Then I feel the air needs to be cleared.

If one felt that way about these publishers, one would probably not bother commenting on the content. Or perhaps start a separate, "I don't trust Hoven" thread and update that one.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

My show or his? I was talking about his daily content. My show is a fantasy sports show in Mo and Arkansas.

Got it, I misread your post.

 

[JeanBlanc]

LAK Insider: 3/16 Practice – Injuries & Maintenance + Top Line Thoughts, The Kids Are Alright, JQ700

Todd McLellan used the word sluggish last night to describe his top line, indicating that they would get some rest upcoming. Kopitar has logged the fourth-most minutes in the league this season amongst forwards

While McLellan has indicated that their production needs to improve, managing minutes and rest will be a key to doing that over the coming games, important games for the Kings.

I didn't want to post this in the "Obligatory Fire Todd McLellan et. al." thread as it has a ... specific tone. But it's good news that he realized this was an issue. I wish he'd realized this was going to be the outcome of the heavy minutes earlier in the season and balanced it so that Kopitar didn't hit this wall. If Kopitar gets mammoth minutes at the beginning of next season, every press Q&A should include questions about managing Kopitar's minutes after seeing what happens this year.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I would think that Blake / Luc keep things tight from getting out....years ago, didn't Rich Hammond get some tip about the Williams deal going down and he leaked it? Back in the Lombardi era. Who knows who leaked that to Hammond.

Years ago, (2002-03) I got a PM here the eve of the trade deadline and did not know the poster (or why they PM'd me?) that "Schneider was going to Detroit for Avery, plus another player" It was about midnight. I just responded to them, "thanks, I won't post that" The trade then happened.
I found out later, it was a leak from one of Leiweke's kids....so why would Leiweke tell his kids? I am still baffled as why they PM'd me...and who knows who else they told. The only other leak I saw that happened a few days later, was on the old ESPN msg board, that Felix Potvin was coming to the Kings. It happened a few days later. So that was leaked from the Van or Kings org...or agent?

I have a feeling because of such leaks in the past, that Blake keeps things tight. What was the Rich Hammond leak and did it cost the price to go up, I heard?

 

[Herby]

I would think that Blake / Luc keep things tight from getting out....years ago, didn't Rich Hammond get some tip about the Williams deal going down and he leaked it? Back in the Lombardi era. Who knows who leaked that to Hammond.

Years ago, (2002-03) I got a PM here the eve of the trade deadline and did not know the poster (or why they PM'd me?) that "Schneider was going to Detroit for Avery, plus another player" It was about midnight. I just responded to them, "thanks, I won't post that" The trade then happened.
I found out later, it was a leak from one of Leiweke's kids....so why would Leiweke tell his kids? I am still baffled as why they PM'd me...and who knows who else they told. The only other leak I saw that happened a few days later, was on the old ESPN msg board, that Felix Potvin was coming to the Kings. It happened a few days later. So that was leaked from the Van or Kings org...or agent?

I have a feeling because of such leaks in the past, that Blake keeps things tight. What was the Rich Hammond leak and did it cost the price to go up, I heard?

Yes,

Hammond the team employed mouthpiece leaked the trade and I think Carolina and Edmonton were still working on elements of it (it was a 3 way trade) and the Kings ended up having to pay more, I think an additional draft pick.

My thoughts on this whole topic are, it's very unfortunate that the Kings are basically a zero in the broadcast and print media in LA. One of the only non-bloggers who covers the team does it behind a Paywall (Dillman). I remember being in CA for a few weeks and driving around to see people and never once hearing the Kings mentioned on local radio, went back to Chicago and they were interviewing Al Michaels and brought up his love of the Kings and discussed the team briefly, literally they talked more about the Kings (about 3 minutes) on Chicago radio than they did on LA radio. But hockey coverage from traditional mediums is just never going to be a thing in SoCal, so we have to take what we can get.

I appreciate the work that the bloggers do, my biggest complaints with Hoven and Bernstein other than their very close affiliation with the team is how they act on social media, I know sometimes it can be a tough way to judge someone but Hoven just comes across as a total arrogant asshole on Twitter, like give us a break dude, you started a Kings blog years ago and were able to monetize it, it's no reason to be so full of yourself. Same thing with DB. I also do think Hoven's absolute comments on social media are pretty stupid since he has been proven wrong before. It's like he is oblivious to the fact that sometimes he is used to leak BS the team wants to get out for one reason or the other (or his sources are sometimes wrong).

 

[johnjm22]

LAK Insider: 3/16 Practice – Injuries & Maintenance + Top Line Thoughts, The Kids Are Alright, JQ700



I didn't want to post this in the "Obligatory Fire Todd McLellan et. al." thread as it has a ... specific tone. But it's good news that he realized this was an issue. I wish he'd realized this was going to be the outcome of the heavy minutes earlier in the season and balanced it so that Kopitar didn't hit this wall. If Kopitar gets mammoth minutes at the beginning of next season, every press Q&A should include questions about managing Kopitar's minutes after seeing what happens this year.

I agree. I like what I'm reading here.

At this point there's really no reason Kopitar's ice time should hit the 20 minute mark.

The only 3 forwards in the league that have played more minutes than Kopitar are Kyle Conner (25yo), Draisaitl (26yo) and McDavid (25yo). All 3 of them also have softer deployment than Kopitar.

There's really no excuse for his poor TOI management by the coaching staff. It's totally braindead.

 

[JeanBlanc]

The Athletic: Stanley Cup contender checklist: How does each playoff team stack up?

I thought the assessment of the Kings was pretty fair.

Kopitar is below acceptable in the role of Elite Center, which a cup winner would need to have.

Arvidsson is in-line with the role of Elite Winger.

Interesting that they have him in this spot and not Kempe.​

Kempe is below acceptable in the role of Top Line Winger

This one I agree with over the past few weeks, but not for the season. I'm not sure if they're basing this purely on the GSVA stat or not.​

Drew Doughty is right on target for the role of Elite Defenseman.

Matt Roy is below acceptable in the role of No. 1 Defenseman.
Olli Matta and Sean Durzi are below acceptable in the role of Top Pair Defenseman

 

[johnjm22]

Yes,

Hammond the team employed mouthpiece leaked the trade and I think Carolina and Edmonton were still working on elements of it (it was a 3 way trade) and the Kings ended up having to pay more, I think an additional draft pick.

My thoughts on this whole topic are, it's very unfortunate that the Kings are basically a zero in the broadcast and print media in LA. One of the only non-bloggers who covers the team does it behind a Paywall (Dillman). I remember being in CA for a few weeks and driving around to see people and never once hearing the Kings mentioned on local radio, went back to Chicago and they were interviewing Al Michaels and brought up his love of the Kings and discussed the team briefly, literally they talked more about the Kings (about 3 minutes) on Chicago radio than they did on LA radio. But hockey coverage from traditional mediums is just never going to be a thing in SoCal, so we have to take what we can get.

I appreciate the work that the bloggers do, my biggest complaints with Hoven and Bernstein other than their very close affiliation with the team is how they act on social media, I know sometimes it can be a tough way to judge someone but Hoven just comes across as a total arrogant asshole on Twitter, like give us a break dude, you started a Kings blog years ago and were able to monetize it, it's no reason to be so full of yourself. Same thing with DB. I also do think Hoven's absolute comments on social media are pretty stupid since he has been proven wrong before. It's like he is oblivious to the fact that sometimes he is used to leak BS the team wants to get out for one reason or the other (or his sources are sometimes wrong).

Growing up as a Kings fan I always fantasized about the Kings winning the SC.

I thought if they did, hockey would blow up and become much more popular in SoCal. More people playing, more people talking about it. I would love to hear 'Kings talk' on the radio etc.

But even after they did win it, none of that actually happened.

To be perfectly honest, I was pretty disappointed by the reaction of the Kings winning the SC in the local market.

 

[BringTheReign]

I still think Kopitar must ask for this type of deployment just like he asks for Iafallo to play on his line. It's the same reason Doughty always gets 25+ minutes even in the seasons he clearly slacked off, it's just easier to see it in Doughty publicly.

I did like that even though Todd recognized the issue with the first line, he also said he doesn't want to mess with the #RealFirstLine and the #ChampagneLine to fix it. I don't want Danault and Moore separated, and I don't want the kids separated either. Hell, give Lizotte Kopitar's current wingers and then give Kopitar his. I bet it would work better than what we're seeing from the 1st line right now.

 

[JeanBlanc]

The national and local guys pay to be on top.

They pay money to get top access to sources?

 

[bland]

That's fair. I'm not saying you have to take Hoven's word as gospel. You're all intelligent enough to come to your conclusions.

I'm just pushing back on:
- the notion that Blake is the only person who has an inkling of what direction the Kings are going
- the idea that Hoven doesn't have resources that help him formulate an informed opinion.

Nobody is saying that Hoven (or Jesse, Zach Dooley, etc) are getting all the dirty details straight from Blake's mouth. But there are circles in hockey and they talk to each other. Not just in LA, but across the league and even in juniors.

Don't like the content? Unfortunate but understandable.

Don't believe that Hoven (or any of the recognized LA bloggers) is actually speaking with a variety of resources they trust to give an honest assessment? Then I feel the air needs to be cleared.

I think its just the interjection of opinion into news reporting without a clear separation that causes these kinds of reactions. Its not the information, its the formatting.

I am glad to have, but the audience gives different weight to the two types of content despite it being presented in the same manner.

 

[FSL KINGS]

I would think that Blake / Luc keep things tight from getting out....years ago, didn't Rich Hammond get some tip about the Williams deal going down and he leaked it? Back in the Lombardi era. Who knows who leaked that to Hammond.

Years ago, (2002-03) I got a PM here the eve of the trade deadline and did not know the poster (or why they PM'd me?) that "Schneider was going to Detroit for Avery, plus another player" It was about midnight. I just responded to them, "thanks, I won't post that" The trade then happened.
I found out later, it was a leak from one of Leiweke's kids....so why would Leiweke tell his kids? I am still baffled as why they PM'd me...and who knows who else they told. The only other leak I saw that happened a few days later, was on the old ESPN msg board, that Felix Potvin was coming to the Kings. It happened a few days later. So that was leaked from the Van or Kings org...or agent?

I have a feeling because of such leaks in the past, that Blake keeps things tight. What was the Rich Hammond leak and did it cost the price to go up, I heard?

Blake seems to call on everyone to get the price & judge the market. Makes it difficult to figure out who the Kings are serious about.

The Athletic: Stanley Cup contender checklist: How does each playoff team stack up?

I thought the assessment of the Kings was pretty fair.

Kopitar is below acceptable in the role of Elite Center, which a cup winner would need to have.

Arvidsson is in-line with the role of Elite Winger.

Interesting that they have him in this spot and not Kempe.​

Kempe is below acceptable in the role of Top Line Winger

This one I agree with over the past few weeks, but not for the season. I'm not sure if they're basing this purely on the GSVA stat or not.​

Drew Doughty is right on target for the role of Elite Defenseman.

Matt Roy is below acceptable in the role of No. 1 Defenseman.
Olli Matta and Sean Durzi are below acceptable in the role of Top Pair Defenseman

Are they trying to say Maatta, Durzi isn't an acceptable "Top Pair"? No #@%>&#&$ #%&$s!_

Kopi only 4th most TOI from forwards? I knew he was slacking this year.
Get the man some help.