Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[King'sPawn]

Whoops, already answered

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Frustrating and gives credence to those questioning the development path, is TMAC putting young players in position to succeed?

Great question and I believe it’s the first time ever raised here. I would counter with this…how much ice time is Byfield, Clarke and Vilardi getting? Just want to make sure TM’s hate for the kids is consistent.

 

[mysterman2]

or… Maybe Pinto is just better than Kaliyev? He’s a much better ES player for sure. Over 30% of Arty’s points are on the PP. Pinto has 2 career power play points. Arty averages 2:22 of pp time per game. Pinto, 1:53. Arty’s time has decreased this year because he’s not playing well enough to overtake those ahead of him. He’s given PP time because its his strength, which is what you want for a young player.

Lots of guys taken before Arty havent done squat. Were they all developed poorly? Every player benefits from more time of course, but lots of things go into development.

Point is- Ott is giving him additional time in scoring situations. LA & Tmac are not giving arty that same opportunity. Pinto could very well be a better player ES for sure- but also doesnt mean Kaliyev isnt being misused. And note- Im not the only who has made this observation.

I agree with some of the other here as well- Vilardi had some PP success acting as a big screen....why not use Byfield in similar manner? We know he has great hands and some moves in tight spaces.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Great question and I believe it’s the first time ever raised here. I would counter with this…how much ice time is Byfield, Clarke and Vilardi getting? Just want to make sure TM’s hate for the kids is consistent.

Byfield: TOI:

Against the Caps: second lowest
Against the Penguins: lowest
Against the Predators: second lowest
Against the Red Wings: 4th lowest
Against the WIld: 4th lowest
Against the Kraken: 5th lowest
Against Vegas: 4th lowest

Total PP time for the season: 20 seconds

 

[mysterman2]

Byfield: TOI:



Total PP time for the season: 20 seconds

Made more frustrating by the current PP unit reverting to simply working slow deliberate passes round the perimeter and ultimately settling for a low % shot. In preseason and early it was a series of quick short passes leading up to a man taking a one timer from the slot- what happened to that strategy?

 

[apadilla]

Arizona's Zach Kassian might be someone the Kings could use in the bottom 6? He would bridge the gap until Helenius is ready to bang. His AAV is 3.2 M through next season. Maybe for Walker and say a 3rd.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

or… Maybe Pinto is just better than Kaliyev? He’s a much better ES player for sure. Over 30% of Arty’s points are on the PP. Pinto has 2 career power play points. Arty averages 2:22 of pp time per game. Pinto, 1:53. Arty’s time has decreased this year because he’s not playing well enough to overtake those ahead of him. He’s given PP time because its his strength, which is what you want for a young player.

Lots of guys taken before Arty havent done squat. Were they all developed poorly? Every player benefits from more time of course, but lots of things go into development.

The thing is, whichever way you slice it--it's an organizational problem.

Are every other team's similar prospects so much better than ours? That's a drafting/development problem.
Are our prospects fine, and just not getting the right opportunities? That's a coaching/management problem.

I dunno man, I think most people would agree that inside AND outside any org not named Hockey Canada, Clarke has been awesome...but they have him playing the left side in the least minutes getting PK time with our worst available and recovering-from-injury defenseman. It's like they're trying as hard as they can to put these guys in the worst positions, it would be hilarious if it weren't true. It's been roughly similar for every kid--who can forget Grundstrom scoring in three consecutive games before "sorry kid, not your fault, but we're benching you."

Shit stinks from top to bottom and they're getting kicked in the teeth appropriately for it since Vilardi isn't carrying the team like he was the first handful of games. But I gotta admit..."maybe Arty actually sucks" vs. others and solely because of himself rather than his usage is a pretty unique take.

 

[Reaper45]

So many naughty Halloween outfits this year it seems.

View attachment 598610

Should say literally a zombie.

 

[Fishhead]

Point is- Ott is giving him additional time in scoring situations. LA & Tmac are not giving arty that same opportunity. Pinto could very well be a better player ES for sure- but also doesnt mean Kaliyev isnt being misused. And note- Im not the only who has made this observation.

I agree with some of the other here as well- Vilardi had some PP success acting as a big screen....why not use Byfield in similar manner? We know he has great hands and some moves in tight spaces.

I agree he could be used a bit better, but really, who has Arty outplayed? None of the 6 wingers above him so far. He's gotten some opportunity the last couple of games and moved up a bit with more skilled players, and he responded with zero points and a -4.

The biggest problem I see emerging with Kaliyev is finding where he fits. He's looked the best by far on the 4th line and the PP, but when he's moved up he struggles. Same thing happened last year when he saw increased time. What I'm seeing is when he's on the 4th line his compete is off the charts, but when he moves up that visibly drops as he defers. I think the best fit stylistically is with Kopitar, but that's a lot of minutes against better competition. The 2nd line isn't going to be messed with unless the wheels totally fall off. He hasn't looked good with Byfield/Vilardi so far. I'd like to see him swapped with Fiala, not only for Arty but to see what KF could do with the space that Byfield and Vilardi create. I can spitball like that but Fiala isn't paid for 3rd line minutes, so it's unlikely.

So where does he fit? I always thought of him as Moore's replacement, but as Danault is starting to take more top competition, can he handle it? It's a tough question. I thought he would be start to shine with Vilardi and Byfield, but so far that hasn't worked at all. Some of that might be matchup related, so I'm hoping they stay together on the homestand to see if they can respond.

Only 6 players taken before Arty in his draft have played more games than he has, so while he hasn't seen regular top-6 time he still has had plenty of opportunity to show what he's got. Until he takes a Vilardi type step and grabs that ring he's probably going to be in that limbo.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Only 6 players taken before Arty in his draft have played more games than he has, so while he hasn't seen regular top-6 time he still has had plenty of opportunity to show what he's got. Until he takes a Vilardi type step and grabs that ring he's probably going to be in that limbo.

The difference being, of course, those teams take the time to build the fit around the kid instead of dicking him around while throwing around a nebulous "he needs to earn it."

I don't disagree he hasn't been great this season, but other kids who had--Byfield was amazing yet getting the least minutes on the team, Kupari was banished to the AHL--still doesn't matter. We're right back where we were last year with the notable exception of Vilardi so far.

 

[Fishhead]

The thing is, whichever way you slice it--it's an organizational problem.

Are every other team's similar prospects so much better than ours? That's a drafting/development problem.
Are our prospects fine, and just not getting the right opportunities? That's a coaching/management problem.

I dunno man, I think most people would agree that inside AND outside any org not named Hockey Canada, Clarke has been awesome...but they have him playing the left side in the least minutes getting PK time with our worst available and recovering-from-injury defenseman. It's like they're trying as hard as they can to put these guys in the worst positions, it would be hilarious if it weren't true. It's been roughly similar for every kid--who can forget Grundstrom scoring in three consecutive games before "sorry kid, not your fault, but we're benching you."

Shit stinks from top to bottom and they're getting kicked in the teeth appropriately for it since Vilardi isn't carrying the team like he was the first handful of games. But I gotta admit..."maybe Arty actually sucks" vs. others and solely because of himself rather than his usage is a pretty unique take.

I don't think Arty sucks at all, I think he needs to learn to fit into scoring lines. I think Pinto is a better overall player, nothing more than that.

Here's a question - how many other organizations have players taken around Arty's draft slot in 2019 that are doing as good (or better) than he is? Even if you expand that to outside of the top 10, that's a pretty short list. What do we attribute that to, drafting or coaching? If the Kings were that bad at both, how is a 2nd rounder outperforming so many above him?

Note that I'm not defending some of the handling of players by the organization and by the coaches, but really, how many other organizations are that much better at it? I'm glad we have those high expectations here, but some of it is on the players themselves.

To me the biggest problem the organization has currently is that things aren't always well thought out. Blake took over a crappy situation, but there wasn't a clear plan from the get-go like DL had. I get not starting a rebuild right away with what we had, but it hasn't been very cohesive. Getting a sniper like Arty is fine, but like I mentioned in another post, where does he fit? For all our bitching about it, maybe the reason he's played a lot of fourth line is to teach him the habits he needs to learn to play against top competition with guys like Danault or Kopitar. It's hard to figure out because I just don't see a pattern or plan there.

 

[Fishhead]

The difference being, of course, those teams take the time to build the fit around the kid instead of dicking him around while throwing around a nebulous "he needs to earn it."

I don't disagree he hasn't been great this season, but other kids who had--Byfield was amazing yet getting the least minutes on the team, Kupari was banished to the AHL--still doesn't matter. We're right back where we were last year with the notable exception of Vilardi so far.

This is ideal, but who do we have that is good enough to build around? Arty isn't that player for sure. Byfield, yes, I think we are seeing that emerge with Vilardi. Clarke I think for sure.

Maybe how they've handled Vilardi and Byfield is why they are playing much better this year. Or maybe they would have broken out sooner if they saw more time. There is no way of knowing, of course.

 

[kings11]

Building around a 35-year-old Kopi is a fool's errand.

On another note, Jon Rosen's new page is pretty good. He's got some advanced stats called a possession/playmaking chart. It's got interesting metrics and he also provides insight with it from watching the game. For example, he's got something called 15OUT which long story short is number of times the Kings spend fewer than 15 seconds in the defensive zone without allowing a threatening chance against. If your eyes have been telling you that the 1st line has trouble chasing the puck in the defensive zone and exiting quickly, these numbers back it up. Anyway, I'm enjoying the content and he tells it like it is.

Who said build around Kopitar? I said give the guy a simple player that parks his ass in front of the net and use our new talented player on another line where he’d be better utilized

EDIT: I’m pretty sure I misunderstood your reply

 

[bland]

I agree he could be used a bit better, but really, who has Arty outplayed? None of the 6 wingers above him so far. He's gotten some opportunity the last couple of games and moved up a bit with more skilled players, and he responded with zero points and a -4.

The biggest problem I see emerging with Kaliyev is finding where he fits. He's looked the best by far on the 4th line and the PP, but when he's moved up he struggles. Same thing happened last year when he saw increased time. What I'm seeing is when he's on the 4th line his compete is off the charts, but when he moves up that visibly drops as he defers. I think the best fit stylistically is with Kopitar, but that's a lot of minutes against better competition. The 2nd line isn't going to be messed with unless the wheels totally fall off. He hasn't looked good with Byfield/Vilardi so far. I'd like to see him swapped with Fiala, not only for Arty but to see what KF could do with the space that Byfield and Vilardi create. I can spitball like that but Fiala isn't paid for 3rd line minutes, so it's unlikely.

So where does he fit? I always thought of him as Moore's replacement, but as Danault is starting to take more top competition, can he handle it? It's a tough question. I thought he would be start to shine with Vilardi and Byfield, but so far that hasn't worked at all. Some of that might be matchup related, so I'm hoping they stay together on the homestand to see if they can respond.

Only 6 players taken before Arty in his draft have played more games than he has, so while he hasn't seen regular top-6 time he still has had plenty of opportunity to show what he's got. Until he takes a Vilardi type step and grabs that ring he's probably going to be in that limbo.

I would argue that he has outplayed Fiala and Arvidsson, both of whom have only had 1 good game out of the seven they have each played.

Yeah, I know, circumstances, but giving the veteran players the benefit of the doubt and not extending it to the kids is very much part of the issues on display here.

 

[King'sPawn]

I would argue that he has outplayed Fiala and Arvidsson, both of whom have only had 1 good game out of the seven they have each played.

Yeah, I know, circumstances, but giving the veteran players the benefit of the doubt and not extending it to the kids is very much part of the issues on display here.

I'd add Kempe, too. Despite his points, he's largely been underwhelming

 

[Fishhead]

I would argue that he has outplayed Fiala and Arvidsson, both of whom have only had 1 good game out of the seven they have each played.

Yeah, I know, circumstances, but giving the veteran players the benefit of the doubt and not extending it to the kids is very much part of the issues on display here.

I actually think the opposite. Arty hasn't been dangerous out there, he's looked out of place and out of sorts so far. Arvidsson was rusty coming off of surgery, but he's getting it back and looks back to normal. He's made things happen. Fiala has been underwhelming to me, but 5 points in 7 games coming to a new team isn't bad at all. It's his stupid penalties that have pissed me off.

Arty has done very little to take notice of this year. While Fiala and Arvidsson are improving, he seems to be going the other way.

None of this has to do with veteran presence to me at all, just calling it like I see it.

 

[bland]

I actually think the opposite. Arty hasn't been dangerous out there, he's looked out of place and out of sorts so far. Arvidsson was rusty coming off of surgery, but he's getting it back and looks back to normal. He's made things happen. Fiala has been underwhelming to me, but 5 points in 7 games coming to a new team isn't bad at all. It's his stupid penalties that have pissed me off.

Arty has done very little to take notice of this year. While Fiala and Arvidsson are improving, he seems to be going the other way.

None of this has to do with veteran presence to me at all, just calling it like I see it.

Fiala has been brutal. Three of those points came in one game - he has completely disrupted that line and made a variety of stupid - not just bad, but stupid - decisions with the puck and on those penalties. He has picked up right were Athanasiou left off.

Arvidsson has clearly struggled to get up to the pace of the game. Its telling that the one game he contributed in was the slowest, most laborious game of the year, but it was great to see him show more of that buzzing, quick side to side movement that is his calling card.

Kaliyev has struggled to make an impact with Byfield and Vilardi for sure, but he had multiple strong games early on. Strong along the wall, a little quicker and more decisive than last year. He hasn't been anywhere near as problematic as the two mentioned above.

 

[Fishhead]

I'd add Kempe, too. Despite his points, he's largely been underwhelming

I'd say the same. But how spoiled are we when a guy on pace for 70p and 46g is underwhelming? How many times have we said that we'd love to have offensive guys who just scored goals even if they weren't top all around players? That's Kempe so far this year, and for a 5.5 cap hit.

What has Arty done that is better than any of those guys though? I don't see it this year so far.

 

[Fishhead]

In any case, I hope as the year goes on Arty gets back to where he was. Vilardi and Byfield have been better, but it's very high event stuff and it's very noticable when they struggle like the last couple of games. I want to see Arty step up like Gabe did in preseason and so far this year. The knock on him has always been his drive and compete, we will see if he can get that.

 

[Fishhead]

Fiala has been brutal. Three of those points came in one game - he has completely disrupted that line and made a variety of stupid - not just bad, but stupid - decisions with the puck and on those penalties. He has picked up right were Athanasiou left off.

Arvidsson has clearly struggled to get up to the pace of the game. Its telling that the one game he contributed in was the slowest, most laborious game of the year, but it was great to see him show more of that buzzing, quick side to side movement that is his calling card.

Kaliyev has struggled to make an impact with Byfield and Vilardi for sure, but he had multiple strong games early on. Strong along the wall, a little quicker and more decisive than last year. He hasn't been anywhere near as problematic as the two mentioned above.

I don't think Fiala has been brutal, to be honest. He's scoring and not leaking scoring chances against, he's one of the few forwards with positive metrics. Can't really complain if he's putting up points and doing that against really tough competition.

I agree about that line though, it's just not working. I expect if it continues changes will be made.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I don't think Fiala has been brutal, to be honest. He's scoring and not leaking scoring chances against, he's one of the few forwards with positive metrics. Can't really complain if he's putting up points and doing that against really tough competition.

I agree about that line though, it's just not working. I expect if it continues changes will be made.

At 5-on-5 on the team for individual rate stats, Fiala has the second fewest shots per 60, the second lowest expected goals per 60 (i.e., not getting quality chances himself), has the second lowest shot attempts per 60, 5th lowest scoring chances per 60 (behind such offensive luminaries as Matt Roy and Mikey Anderson), and the lowest high-danger scoring chances per 60 (0, tied with Edler). Other than the Minnesota game, he has been underwhelming to say the least.

 

[cyclones22]

Fiala doesn't fit with Kopi. Most could see this coming a mile away. Not one but two speedy wingers? While Kopi slowly brings up the rear after they've already entered the zone. Fiala should be tried with Byfield and Vilardi while AI gets healthy.

 

[Sol]

Kopitar fits on the third line

 

[Kingspiracy]

Arizona's Zach Kassian might be someone the Kings could use in the bottom 6? He would bridge the gap until Helenius is ready to bang. His AAV is 3.2 M through next season. Maybe for Walker and say a 3rd.

No thanks, he's dropped off a bit.

Did you see his tilt with xfsktsoyhfh?

edit

Zack Kassian vs. Arber Xhekaj, October 20, 2022 - Arizona Coyotes vs. Montreal Canadiens | HockeyFights

HockeyFights - Zack Kassian vs. Arber Xhekaj, October 20, 2022 - Arizona Coyotes vs. Montreal Canadiens

www.hockeyfights.com

 

[Fishhead]

Kopitar fits on the third line

I don't know about a third line, but I'd rather see:

Kempe-Kopitar-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Fiala-Byfield-Vilardi

And just spread out the ice time.

Danault gets top comp, Kopi 2nd comp, and Byfield 3rd comp. Between those lines and a Lemieux-Lizotte-Grundy on the 4th it would be trick to match up against.