Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[kilowatt]

Here are some TOI/GP rankings since the 2019-20 season, when Todd was hired. These rankings are for players with greater than 10 games played.

Of the 74 players drafted in 2017:
Mikey Anderson is 3rd at 20:49 (3rd of 24 defensemen)
Gabe Vilardi is 34th at 14:40 (13th of 50 forwards)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan is 50th at 12:08 (26th of 50 forwards)
Lias Andersson is 65th at 10:50 (41st of 50 forwards)

Of the 59 players drafted in 2018:
Sean Durzi is 5th at 19:46 (5th of 22 defensemen)
Rasmus Kupari is 45th at 11:20 (23rd of 37 forwards)

Of the 40 players drafted in 2019:
Jordan Spence is 2nd at 19:08* (2nd of 14 defensemen)
Tobias Bjornfot is 9th at 16:37 (5th of 14 defensemen)
Arthur Kaliyev is 30th at 12:34 (16th of 26 forwards)
(Alex Turcotte would be 37th at 11:16, but only has 8 games played)

Of the 21 players drafted in 2020:
Quinton Byfield is 17th with 12:18 (13th of 17 forwards)

Of the 10 players drafted in 2021 (Using the 9 game threshold to account for Clarke):
Brandt Clarke is 7th at 13:39 (3rd of 3 defensemen)

* Spence has an asterisk here because I guess scoring 8 points in 24 games and averaging 19:45 per game last season warrants 3 games at 14:19 this year.

The way I read this, the coaching staff has no problem throwing big minutes at young defensemen. It's a real sink or swim situation. They've largely swam. Forwards are not given that same opportunity. Only Gabe Vilardi is in the top half of time on ice relative to his peers.

 

[Fishhead]

Here are some TOI/GP rankings since the 2019-20 season, when Todd was hired. These rankings are for players with greater than 10 games played.

Of the 74 players drafted in 2017:
Mikey Anderson is 3rd at 20:49 (3rd of 24 defensemen)
Gabe Vilardi is 34th at 14:40 (13th of 50 forwards)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan is 50th at 12:08 (26th of 50 forwards)
Lias Andersson is 65th at 10:50 (41st of 50 forwards)

Of the 59 players drafted in 2018:
Sean Durzi is 5th at 19:46 (5th of 22 defensemen)
Rasmus Kupari is 45th at 11:20 (23rd of 37 forwards)

Of the 40 players drafted in 2019:
Jordan Spence is 2nd at 19:08* (2nd of 14 defensemen)
Tobias Bjornfot is 9th at 16:37 (5th of 14 defensemen)
Arthur Kaliyev is 30th at 12:34 (16th of 26 forwards)
(Alex Turcotte would be 37th at 11:16, but only has 8 games played)

Of the 21 players drafted in 2020:
Quinton Byfield is 17th with 12:18 (13th of 17 forwards)

Of the 10 players drafted in 2021 (Using the 9 game threshold to account for Clarke):
Brandt Clarke is 7th at 13:39 (3rd of 3 defensemen)

* Spence has an asterisk here because I guess scoring 8 points in 24 games and averaging 19:45 per game last season warrants 3 games at 14:19 this year.

The way I read this, the coaching staff has no problem throwing big minutes at young defensemen. It's a real sink or swim situation. They've largely swam. Forwards are not given that same opportunity. Only Gabe Vilardi is in the top half of time on ice relative to his peers.

Good analysis.

We all know there aren't a lot of offensive openings while there were a ton of defensive ones, which are obviously going to factor into those minutes. Outside of Anderson and maybe Bjornfot, a lot of those defensive minutes were out of necessity. The injuries last year really pumped up those numbers or I think the D numbers would be a lot lower.

Some of it is circumstance, too. Did anyone foresee Moore breaking out like that? He looked like a tweener AHL guy at best until last season. Or who saw Fiala becoming available for that price? Or what about Lizotte evolving into a 30 point 4th liner? That's 3 spots there for the taking that were taken - two by guys who stepped up and one by a trade that every GM would make. I think stuff like that gets overlooked when we discuss how to break guys in. 3 years ago I thought, even with the top prospect pool, the Kings were in a bit of trouble. I felt they needed 6 or 7 out of the pool to hit. Now I think it's maybe 3 or 4 and any on top of that is a luxury.

So I don't think the Kings are averse to playing young players, but they certainly do like to slow-cook them. Given a 50/50 I think the decision will always be the AHL with this org. That's going to benefit some guys and hurt others. It would be great to figure out which guys fit either path, but that is far, far easier said than done, that's like the holy grail of GM'ing.

There are a few things I think the org got totally wrong that affect those numbers:

1. Signing Edler. Dude is a warrior and I love the way he plays, and I'm amazed at how effective he still is at his age. But I don't think the D would have been any worse (or better) without him. I've never liked "neutral" moves like that, and I think Toby could have handled that spot and continued to develop at the NHL.

2. Not making a D move in the offseason/early season. Yeah, it takes two to tango, but the logjam was already apparent before Clarke showed up. That should have been done to consolidate prospect talent into proven NHL talent in the appropriate age group.

3. Waivers. I absolutely hate that waivers plays such a role in the decision making matrix of this team. All teams like and get attached to their prospects. The vast majority of guys don't get picked up off waivers, so don't f***ing send a guy down just because you are afraid of losing a player that looks like a NHL/AHL tweener. If it's a true 50/50, then sure. Otherwise, keep the guy up with the highest ceiling to develop into.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

That's what happens when you're the best player on the ice.

Clearly not the case, considering Kopitar is still getting 24 minutes a night, and is no longer the best player on the ice.

I understand Kopitar was just a straight up better player than Byfield, and the Kings in 2007 were a straight up worse team. But there has to be a happy medium between 22 minutes and 8 minutes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here are some TOI/GP rankings since the 2019-20 season, when Todd was hired. These rankings are for players with greater than 10 games played.

Of the 74 players drafted in 2017:
Mikey Anderson is 3rd at 20:49 (3rd of 24 defensemen)
Gabe Vilardi is 34th at 14:40 (13th of 50 forwards)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan is 50th at 12:08 (26th of 50 forwards)
Lias Andersson is 65th at 10:50 (41st of 50 forwards)

Of the 59 players drafted in 2018:
Sean Durzi is 5th at 19:46 (5th of 22 defensemen)
Rasmus Kupari is 45th at 11:20 (23rd of 37 forwards)

Of the 40 players drafted in 2019:
Jordan Spence is 2nd at 19:08* (2nd of 14 defensemen)
Tobias Bjornfot is 9th at 16:37 (5th of 14 defensemen)
Arthur Kaliyev is 30th at 12:34 (16th of 26 forwards)
(Alex Turcotte would be 37th at 11:16, but only has 8 games played)

Of the 21 players drafted in 2020:
Quinton Byfield is 17th with 12:18 (13th of 17 forwards)

Of the 10 players drafted in 2021 (Using the 9 game threshold to account for Clarke):
Brandt Clarke is 7th at 13:39 (3rd of 3 defensemen)

* Spence has an asterisk here because I guess scoring 8 points in 24 games and averaging 19:45 per game last season warrants 3 games at 14:19 this year.

The way I read this, the coaching staff has no problem throwing big minutes at young defensemen. It's a real sink or swim situation. They've largely swam. Forwards are not given that same opportunity. Only Gabe Vilardi is in the top half of time on ice relative to his peers.

As pointed out as a whole, part of the reason Spence et. al. got those minutes in the first place was a near-record number of dmen used last year by LA due to injury. Not even Durzi sniffs the NHL last year if not for injuries and trades. But of course what's funny is when those guys were here and given the opportunity, they were given BIG opportunity. It's maddening.

Anderson was a different beast and had the good fortune of being the 'best remaining LHD' in the org because before that he was behind a variety of Forbort and Maatta on the depth chart.

Of course, 'getting minutes' and 'getting games' are nice proxies for role but you have to account for injuries and the fact is the forwards are NOT playing in their roles-to-be. I don't give a f*** if Blake Lizotte is getting good bottom six minutes; he's 25 and a career bottom sixer, of COURSE he fits the TM mold. I DO care that Byfield, Kaliyev, Turcotte aren't allowed to thrive next to top-sixers, and that even when guys like Fagemo show out, they find the bench immediately. Clarke is played on his off-side. And so on. I don't give a crap when GBH says "wow look how many games Kaliyev played" when his icetime is so low and he's a top-5 PP goal scorer in the league but with bottom-50 minutes. That's not just bad deployment; that's actively doing what's worst for icing hte best team in the present, not just in the near future.

No, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, we can only extrapolate from what's actually happening, and what's actually happening is guys who are performing in their minutes are actively cockblocked by vets underperforming due to too many minutes. I think I've said before that personally, I don't even mind Byfield in a 3C role, and the Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was fantastic; but when we have Kopitar getting 24 minutes for nothing but a -2 and Byfield getting less than 10 despite playing an instrumental role in 2 goals for, there's a visible issue.

Please save me the platitudes about 'you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes' and 'you don't know anything about pro hockey' because I'm just describing what I see and what I see sucks (not at you KW, you know who this is for).

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

As pointed out as a whole, part of the reason Spence et. al. got those minutes in the first place was a near-record number of dmen used last year by LA due to injury. Not even Durzi sniffs the NHL last year if not for injuries and trades. But of course what's funny is when those guys were here and given the opportunity, they were given BIG opportunity. It's maddening.

Anderson was a different beast and had the good fortune of being the 'best remaining LHD' in the org because before that he was behind a variety of Forbort and Maatta on the depth chart.

Of course, 'getting minutes' and 'getting games' are nice proxies for role but you have to account for injuries and the fact is the forwards are NOT playing in their roles-to-be. I don't give a f*** if Blake Lizotte is getting good bottom six minutes; he's 25 and a career bottom sixer, of COURSE he fits the TM mold. I DO care that Byfield, Kaliyev, Turcotte aren't allowed to thrive next to top-sixers, and that even when guys like Fagemo show out, they find the bench immediately. Clarke is played on his off-side. And so on. I don't give a crap when GBH says "wow look how many games Kaliyev played" when his icetime is so low and he's a top-5 PP goal scorer in the league but with bottom-50 minutes. That's not just bad deployment; that's actively doing what's worst for icing hte best team in the present, not just in the near future.

No, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, we can only extrapolate from what's actually happening, and what's actually happening is guys who are performing in their minutes are actively cockblocked by vets underperforming due to too many minutes. I think I've said before that personally, I don't even mind Byfield in a 3C role, and the Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi line was fantastic; but when we have Kopitar getting 24 minutes for nothing but a -2 and Byfield getting less than 10 despite playing an instrumental role in 2 goals for, there's a visible issue.

Please save me the platitudes about 'you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes' and 'you don't know anything about pro hockey' because I'm just describing what I see and what I see sucks (not at you KW, you know who this is for).

So all this in a short version is, yiu saying you were f***ing wrong, TMac does play kids regularly, I just don't like how he does it.

Surprise f***ing surprise

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Probably one of the easiest things to do, holy shit....

Ok, here goes, using hockeydb and their ages, so without further ado,

2019-2020 TM's first year

Kempe 22 years old, 69 games
Lizotte 21 years old, 65 games
Amadio, 23 years old 68 games
Austin Wagner, 22 years old, 65 games

2020-2021 (I believe this was a shortened season)

Kempe, 23 years old, 56 games
Vilardi, 21 years old, 54 games
JAD, 20 years old, 34 games
Grundstrom, 22 years old 47 games
Mikey Andersson, 21 years old 54 games
Lizotte, 22 years old, 41 games
Wagner, 23 years old, 44 games
Lias Andersson, 21 years old, 23 games
Tobias Bjonfoot, 19 years old, 33 games

2021-2022

Kaliyev 20 years old, 80 games
Durzi, 22 years old, 65 games
Lizotte, 23 years old, 70 games
Kupari, 21 years old, 57 Games
Byfield, 19 years old, 40 games
Bjornfoot, 20 years old, 70 games

Etc....

I think for some reason when you look at the roster, the ages are a year off, so bump everyone up a year if you must......but don't say he doesn't play kids for f*** sake....

You might not like HOW they are utilized, but they are being played for f*** sake.

Which is what I said here, they are being played you just don't like how they are

 

[KingsFan7824]

3. Waivers. I absolutely hate that waivers plays such a role in the decision making matrix of this team. All teams like and get attached to their prospects. The vast majority of guys don't get picked up off waivers, so don't f***ing send a guy down just because you are afraid of losing a player that looks like a NHL/AHL tweener. If it's a true 50/50, then sure. Otherwise, keep the guy up with the highest ceiling to develop into.

Waivers play a big role in the decision making of every team. It's why there aren't many 1 way contracts in the AHL. Every team cares about money. It's why the cap exists. Go after Blake for adding Danault, Arvidsson, Fiala, keeping Edler again, all that stuff. A limit of 23 roster spots, only 60min in a game, every player can't play 100 shifts every game, etc. Once those guys are here though, sorry Kupari, but you ain't playin. I thought Danault would take time away from Kopitar as he ages, I figured that was the whole point of the signing, but that's clearly not the case as long as TM isn't fired. As a fan, I know I can only get so annoyed at it. At some point, I just have to be, ok, whatever. I have no power to tell TM what to do, so, I either watch or don't. That's my extent. I can't let ice time drive me crazy. I'm not doing it. It be what it be.

Petersen was given every possible chance to actually make a save, because of his contract. We all hate Walker and his contract, but because he does make real money, as long as he's not eventual Petersen level atrocious, they're not going to send him to Ontario just because. Yes, he should've already been dealt to open up a spot, but he's here. If Petersen was even slightly better than he was this year, we wouldn't be seeing the legendary story of the Pheonix forming, because due to the money he makes, Petersen would still be getting starts.

 

[Cianide]

Would you guys be interested in:

Dumoulin+Heinen+3rd for Grunstrom+Lemieux?

Dumolins a little old. Heinen < grundstrom. Grundstrom is a big physical body that la needs. Lemieux is a serviceable agitator that still serves a purpose. While a decent deal, kings give up too much value here.

Could you do doumolin for lemieux ?

 

[Schrute farms]

Anyone padding TMac on the back for playing rookie/young Dmen (& so many minute) is conveniently ignoring the fact that the only reason for such last year due to all the injuries. Durzi was not even on the radar -- but was needed just for a live body. Same with others. If they didn't have everyone out, then it would be different story. But Durzi, among others, showed they could play last year and now given time this year. Otherwise, if they would be relgated to playing sparse and limited minutes.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Anyone padding TMac on the back for playing rookie/young Dmen (& so many minute) is conveniently ignoring the fact that the only reason for such last year due to all the injuries. Durzi was not even on the radar -- but was needed just for a live body. Same with others. If they didn't have everyone out, then it would be different story. But Durzi, among others, showed they could play last year and now given time this year. Otherwise, if they would be relgated to playing sparse and limited minutes.

And you are ignoring that it has happened EVERY YEAR he has been here, NOT JUST LAST YEAR

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Anyone padding TMac on the back for playing rookie/young Dmen (& so many minute) is conveniently ignoring the fact that the only reason for such last year due to all the injuries. Durzi was not even on the radar -- but was needed just for a live body. Same with others. If they didn't have everyone out, then it would be different story. But Durzi, among others, showed they could play last year and now given time this year. Otherwise, if they would be relgated to playing sparse and limited minutes.

Another thing, explain to me how a player with 16 points in 13 games, isn't on anyone's radar......

Some of the things you guys say is just absolutely brutal

 

[Fishhead]

Clearly not the case, considering Kopitar is still getting 24 minutes a night, and is no longer the best player on the ice.

I understand Kopitar was just a straight up better player than Byfield, and the Kings in 2007 were a straight up worse team. But there has to be a happy medium between 22 minutes and 8 minutes.

I think 12-14 minutes for Byfield would be perfect. I don't think he's earned 20 minutes a night but he's earned a lot more than 8. Hoping the plan is to increase his presence on-ice as the season goes on. He certainly can handle 3rd line and PP duties.

That first sentence had me thinking about who the best player on the ice is for the Kings. All around I think it's still Kopitar, then Danault. You could argue either way. Offensively it's Fiala obviously, but defensively he's got less acumen than Durzi. I think Arvidsson is right behind him, he's been great this year. I'd love to retain the guy, but he absolutely should be looking for a longer contract which makes it difficult. Iafallo has been damn impressive too, 2nd best ppg on the team.

 

[kilowatt]

I think 12-14 minutes for Byfield would be perfect. I don't think he's earned 20 minutes a night but he's earned a lot more than 8. Hoping the plan is to increase his presence on-ice as the season goes on. He certainly can handle 3rd line and PP duties.

That first sentence had me thinking about who the best player on the ice is for the Kings. All around I think it's still Kopitar, then Danault. You could argue either way. Offensively it's Fiala obviously, but defensively he's got less acumen than Durzi. I think Arvidsson is right behind him, he's been great this year. I'd love to retain the guy, but he absolutely should be looking for a longer contract which makes it difficult. Iafallo has been damn impressive too, 2nd best ppg on the team.

I don't think anyone would be upset if the Kopitar line got ~18 minutes, the Danault line got about ~16 minutes, a Byfield third line got ~14 minutes, and the fourth line got about ~12 minutes. I don't think anyone is saying Byfield should be playing more than Kopitar or Danault.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't think anyone would be upset if the Kopitar line got ~18 minutes, the Danault line got about ~16 minutes, a Byfield third line got ~14 minutes, and the fourth line got about ~12 minutes. I don't think anyone is saying Byfield should be playing more than Kopitar or Danault.

No, no one is saying that, and ideally, that sounds good...but then reality smacks you in the face, and you take 6 penalties, well that's 12 minutes out of 60 that you aren't necessarily playing Byfield.....so now you are down to 48 minutes for 4 lines.......etc....

Ice time isn't a science, it's an art, and it changes sometime, period by period..... Everyone is pissed Byfield only played 8 minutes, but when he was playing steady last year, he was averaging 12.5 minutes.....but everyone goes off halfcocked after one shift most days

 

[Fishhead]

I don't think anyone would be upset if the Kopitar line got ~18 minutes, the Danault line got about ~16 minutes, a Byfield third line got ~14 minutes, and the fourth line got about ~12 minutes. I don't think anyone is saying Byfield should be playing more than Kopitar or Danault.

That would be a good balance.

What amazes me is the Kings have 9 forwards in the top 180 for ppg. Not sure I've ever seen that since stats started being tracked in depth.

 

[kilowatt]

No, no one is saying that, and ideally, that sounds good...but then reality smacks you in the face, and you take 6 penalties, well that's 12 minutes out of 60 that you aren't necessarily playing Byfield.....so now you are down to 48 minutes for 4 lines.......etc....

Ice time isn't a science, it's an art, and it changes sometime, period by period..... Everyone is pissed Byfield only played 8 minutes, but when he was playing steady last year, he was averaging 12.5 minutes.....but everyone goes off halfcocked after one shift most days

That's a nice theory, but let's look at LA's last game as an example. Here's the even strength TOI:

Kopitar: 17:33
Danault: 18:13
Lizotte: 10:45
Byfield: 6:46

That's at even strength! Forget about the fact that Kopitar and Danault had an extra 4-5 minutes of special teams play.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's a nice theory, but let's look at LA's last game as an example. Here's the even strength TOI: Kopitar: 17:33, Danault: 18:13, Lizotte: 10:45, Byfield: 6:46. That's at even strength! Forget about the fact that Kopitar and Danault had an extra 4-5 minutes of special teams play.

Whittle that down even strength through regulation, I gotta assume 1-2 min for Kopitar and Danault included that OT etc...right?

 

[kilowatt]

Whittle that down even strength through regulation, I gotta assume 1-2 min for Kopitar and Danault included that OT etc...right?

Okay, forget last game. Let's look at the game against Vegas:

Kopitar: 19:38
Danault: 12:56
Lizotte: 12:10
Byfield: 7:23

It's his first two games back. I get it. That'd be fine if it was an isolated occurance. But Byfield is averaging 10 minutes of even strength ice time in 10 games this season, after averaging 11:31 through 40 games last season. Byfield needs to show that he's improving, but he's going to need to be given chances to prove it, too.

 

[Schrute farms]

Edit: never mind -- time to join in with the 'ignore' button

 

[kilowatt]

Just to be crystal clear here, I think a good distribution of ice time for Byfield is somewhere around 12-14 minutes at even strength and a couple minutes on the power play. If his ice time came in around 14-16 minutes nightly, depending on the flow of the game, I'd feel pretty good about his deployment.

Look no further than Mason Mctavish: averaging 11:53 at even strength and 2:32 on the power play. Seems pretty reasonable for a promising young center to me.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So all this in a short version is, yiu saying you were f***ing wrong, TMac does play kids regularly, I just don't like how he does it.

Surprise f***ing surprise

When did I ever argue they weren't in the lineup?

Welcome to my ignore list, can't help you being deliberately ignorant and angry about it when you're 99% bad faith.

 

[King'sPawn]

Edit: never mind -- time to join in with the 'ignore' button

When did I ever argue they weren't in the lineup?

Welcome to my ignore list, can't help you being deliberately ignorant and angry about it when you're 99% bad faith.

I feel like I've missed so much and so little at the same time.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I feel like I've missed so much and so little at the same time.

Probably gonna be a lot quieter around here without me trying to help two guys find good faith.

 

[tny760]

Probably gonna be a lot quieter around here without me trying to help two guys find good faith.

blissful

 

[KINGS17]

Edit: never mind -- time to join in with the 'ignore' button

I don't need a button to ignore BS. I just skip right over it.