Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[GoldenBearHockey]

Not to that extreme...but it was great to see guys like bjornfot and spence develop last year - they still have things to work on, but they are good enough to be here and better than Walker and have more upside. I think this comes down to: Id rather they stick more with a rebuild mentality than 'win now w vets' mentality - and let the kids surprise us like last year... because I do not think the d-corps or goaltending is close to cup contender quality and Id rather see these guys build confidence and take over.

Fair enough, Bjornfoot is what, a whopping 21....when most D mature into the NHL at about 23-24, sure you have some talents like Makar etc, who don't but on average....you want kids making mistakes in the minors where yea it might cost their team, but THAT'S EXPECTED...so they can work on it, vs the NHL where, it's not expected.....expectations are everything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Then explain Andersson, Kaliyev, Vilardi, Durzi, Lizotte,

-Anderson was a nice ascension, he's 23 though and was here when we had no options. It wasn't until the end of 2021 that he started getting regular reps with Doughty as he was the best surviving LHD, before that he was skating regularly with Roy (as you may recall we had a couple of years still of Forbort Maatta etc before they got traded and he was the best remaining LHD). In other words, he got the spot because everyone else moved on. That's not happening with the forwards. (you can verify this easily by TOI, and game day threads from those seasons).
-kaliyev--you saw my bit yesterday on him being the least-used of the TOP 50 PP goal scorers despite being elite at it. Oh, and he's on the 4th line. All this despite Blake saying we need him as a top sixer. nice message.
-Vilardi is a nice ascension after getting dicked all over but again he's 23 and had to become our leading scorer and someone else demoted before he was moved up and even then it was to help Kopitar rather than vice versa.
-Durzi et. al. got huge playing time becuase of injuries, we used nearly a literal NHL record # of dmen last year, we were one off it. he is also 24.
-Lizotte is f***ing 25 and on the bottom six, this is by far your worst weirdest example.
-You also bring up Fagemo who should have made the team two years running as per many observers. PPG in those two games, then back to the bench for good.

By and large anyone 21 and under is not allowed to move up. Once they're 23, they're under consideration for full time roles provided they don't displace vets (unless those vets are being punished and demoted by TM then they're allowed to temporarily move up). That seems to be the pattern.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

-Anderson was a nice ascension, he's 23 though and was here when we had no options. It wasn't until the end of 2021 that he started getting regular reps with Doughty as he was the best surviving LHD, before that he was skating regularly with Roy (as you may recall we had a couple of years still of Forbort Maatta etc before they got traded and he was the best remaining LHD). In other words, he got the spot because everyone else moved on. That's not happening with the forwards. (you can verify this easily by TOI, and game day threads from those seasons).
-kaliyev--you saw my bit yesterday on him being the least-used of the TOP 50 PP goal scorers despite being elite at it. Oh, and he's on the 4th line. All this despite Blake saying we need him as a top sixer. nice message.
-Vilardi is a nice ascension after getting dicked all over but again he's 23 and had to become our leading scorer and someone else demoted before he was moved up and even then it was to help Kopitar rather than vice versa.
-Durzi et. al. got huge playing time becuase of injuries, we used nearly a literal NHL record # of dmen last year, we were one off it. he is also 24.
-Lizotte is f***ing 25 and on the bottom six, this is by far your worst weirdest example.
-You also bring up Fagemo who should have made the team two years running as per many observers. PPG in those two games, then back to the bench for good.

By and large anyone 21 and under is not allowed to move up. Once they're 23, they're under consideration for full time roles provided they don't displace vets (unless those vets are being punished and demoted by TM then they're allowed to temporarily move up). That seems to be the pattern.

Then that's only a pattern because you have your head up your ass and refuse to look.....Vilardi was dicked around? Yet other teams broadcasters are saying he was brought up too fast......let me think....who do I think knows a bit more about what happened or why it happened, ex players.....or a 50 year old bear league player who watches from the couch (yes, I am including me in there as well)

The difference is, I know enough to know that I don't know f***all about what goes in in the room and behind closed doors....

 

[AbsentMojo]

Fair enough, Bjornfoot is what, a whopping 21....when most D mature into the NHL at about 23-24, sure you have some talents like Makar etc, who don't but on average....you want kids making mistakes in the minors where yea it might cost their team, but THAT'S EXPECTED...so they can work on it, vs the NHL where, it's not expected.....expectations are everything.

I understand that.. i know he's still being seasoned (I read that they asked him to work on offense).. but for sure Id rather see him up here playing 2LD or 3LD then running Durzi as 2LD. I dont know how anyone can sit tight with Durzi as 2LD.. so yes Id rather see Bjornfot up here with his limitations.. because he skates well, plays positional defense, and moves the puck out of the zone well.. all things Durzi struggles with.

 

[Statto]

If Byfield had earned more minutes in the eyes of the coaching staff he'd be getting them. At the end of the day a "project" prospect with that many question marks shouldn't be given minutes on a playoff contender unless the team is 100% sure he'll succeed with them. If Kopitar or Danault get hurt and theres no other options? Sure give him a shot I guess.

Surely the goal is to be a cup contender rather than contending for an early play-off exit. The answers to those questions don’t arrive without giving him minutes, so you give him decent minutes. I’m talking 15 including pp time, nothing crazy. You then let him work it out, let him make mistakes, teach him and he will learn.

If the blue chip guys don’t develop then we definitely don’t win the cup in this current cycle. I think we can win with Doughty and Kopitar but not if they continue to be the only major players. Whilst we feel the need to play Kopitar 20 mins + and Doughty 26+ then we will be no more than a bubble team that might sneak a couple of first round wins before we fail to make progress again.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I’m for it, but what does that mean for Bjornfot? He’ll need to go through waivers next year. Is he our 3LD to start next year finally?

Ol' Gray Beard won't be returning next year, so yes.

2023 Free Agents (L):

Dmitry Orlov (31)
Shayne Gostisbehere (29)
Oscar Klefbom (29)
Brian Dumoulin (31)
Jake Gardiner (33)
Ryan Graves (27)
Vladislav Gavrikov (27)
Carson Soucy (28)
Olli Maatta (28)

Sign me up for some Soucy! (previous cap hit: $2,750,000)

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I understand that.. i know he's still being seasoned (I read that they asked him to work on offense).. but for sure Id rather see him up here playing 2LD or 3LD then running Durzi as 2LD. I dont know how anyone can sit tight with Durzi as 2LD.. so yes Id rather see Bjornfot up here with his limitations.. because he skates well, plays positional defense, and moves the puck out of the zone well.. all things Durzi struggles with.

So in essence you would rather stunt Bjornfoots development, because you don't like Durzi....interesting take

-Anderson was a nice ascension, he's 23 though and was here when we had no options. It wasn't until the end of 2021 that he started getting regular reps with Doughty as he was the best surviving LHD, before that he was skating regularly with Roy (as you may recall we had a couple of years still of Forbort Maatta etc before they got traded and he was the best remaining LHD). In other words, he got the spot because everyone else moved on. That's not happening with the forwards. (you can verify this easily by TOI, and game day threads from those seasons).
-kaliyev--you saw my bit yesterday on him being the least-used of the TOP 50 PP goal scorers despite being elite at it. Oh, and he's on the 4th line. All this despite Blake saying we need him as a top sixer. nice message.
-Vilardi is a nice ascension after getting dicked all over but again he's 23 and had to become our leading scorer and someone else demoted before he was moved up and even then it was to help Kopitar rather than vice versa.
-Durzi et. al. got huge playing time becuase of injuries, we used nearly a literal NHL record # of dmen last year, we were one off it. he is also 24.
-Lizotte is f***ing 25 and on the bottom six, this is by far your worst weirdest example.
-You also bring up Fagemo who should have made the team two years running as per many observers. PPG in those two games, then back to the bench for good.

By and large anyone 21 and under is not allowed to move up. Once they're 23, they're under consideration for full time roles provided they don't displace vets (unless those vets are being punished and demoted by TM then they're allowed to temporarily move up). That seems to be the pattern.

You realize we are talking about the tenure of TMAC right? Lizotte was 21 22, Anderson was 19 20, etc....

Again the idea that TMAC doesn't play the kids is so f***ing asinine it's unreal

 

[King'sPawn]

Not to that extreme...but it was great to see guys like bjornfot and spence develop last year - they still have things to work on, but they are good enough to be here and better than Walker and have more upside. I think this comes down to: Id rather they stick more with a rebuild mentality than 'win now w vets' mentality - and let the kids surprise us like last year... because I do not think the d-corps or goaltending is close to cup contender quality and Id rather see these guys build confidence and take over.

It's been suggested many times to put the young players in a bigger role to see how they do. If they struggle, dial it back a bit. If they thrive, then the team is that much deeper.

The gatekeepers and McLellan bootlickers don't have a response for this suggestion and just want to argue in bad faith.

 

[AbsentMojo]

So in essence you would rather stunt Bjornfoots development, because you don't like Durzi....interesting take

Durzi is developing on his wrong side.. you think that is helping his development? he's still developing and in the wrong way (on defense, on offense he's great)... and quite a leap to say Bjornfot development would be stunted by coming back to the NHL where he developed well last year. You're assuming something that is false: that these guys cant develop well up in the NHL. I do like Durzi as a 3RD and PP1 point man.. He's much better than DD on the PP. Tell me what your take on Durzi as 2LD and his overall defensive game.. do you think he's a legit 2nd pair guy on defense?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You realize we are talking about the tenure of TMAC right? Lizotte was 21 22, Anderson was 19 20, etc....

Again the idea that TMAC doesn't play the kids is so f***ing asinine it's unreal

Then show your work.

You asked me for an explanation and I gave it.

Your explanation is just "nuh uh."

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Then show your work.

You asked me for an explanation and I gave it.

Your explanation is just "nuh uh."

Probably one of the easiest things to do, holy shit....

Ok, here goes, using hockeydb and their ages, so without further ado,

2019-2020 TM's first year

Kempe 22 years old, 69 games
Lizotte 21 years old, 65 games
Amadio, 23 years old 68 games
Austin Wagner, 22 years old, 65 games

2020-2021 (I believe this was a shortened season)

Kempe, 23 years old, 56 games
Vilardi, 21 years old, 54 games
JAD, 20 years old, 34 games
Grundstrom, 22 years old 47 games
Mikey Andersson, 21 years old 54 games
Lizotte, 22 years old, 41 games
Wagner, 23 years old, 44 games
Lias Andersson, 21 years old, 23 games
Tobias Bjonfoot, 19 years old, 33 games

2021-2022

Kaliyev 20 years old, 80 games
Durzi, 22 years old, 65 games
Lizotte, 23 years old, 70 games
Kupari, 21 years old, 57 Games
Byfield, 19 years old, 40 games
Bjornfoot, 20 years old, 70 games

Etc....

I think for some reason when you look at the roster, the ages are a year off, so bump everyone up a year if you must......but don't say he doesn't play kids for f*** sake....

You might not like HOW they are utilized, but they are being played for f*** sake.

 

[crassbonanza]

Durzi is developing on his wrong side.. you think that is helping his development? he's still developing and in the wrong way (on defense, on offense he's great)... and quite a leap to say Bjornfot development would be stunted by coming back to the NHL where he developed well last year. You're assuming something that is false: that these guys cant develop well up in the NHL. I do like Durzi as a 3RD and PP1 point man.. He's much better than DD on the PP. Tell me what your take on Durzi as 2LD and his overall defensive game.. do you think he's a legit 2nd pair guy on defense?

Bjornfot was arguably the worst regular defenseman in the league last season. It's a little early to say that he developed well last year. I will say his numbers look a bit better this season, but I don't know if last year is a good example of a guy finding his way in the league.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Durzi is developing on his wrong side.. you think that is helping his development? he's still developing and in the wrong way (on defense, on offense he's great)... and quite a leap to say Bjornfot development would be stunted by coming back to the NHL where he developed well last year. You're assuming something that is false: that these guys cant develop well up in the NHL. I do like Durzi as a 3RD and PP1 point man.. He's much better than DD on the PP. Tell me what your take on Durzi as 2LD and his overall defensive game.. do you think he's a legit 2nd pair guy on defense?

Question, minus the past 10 years......so 2012 to 1900....were all the defenseman developing on their wrong side....or just developing?

I think he is developing fine, he has bonehead mistakes, 100%, he's also learned from them and you can see it in real time....I'd rather have Bjornfoot develop his offense in the AHL and be encouraged to try shit, than to shit the bed in the NHL and never to try again....there's a reason why people say prospects are brought up too fast......thats one of them, there are very lengthy careers by players who just do the safe thing.....is that we want from our prospects, at least they are safe?

 

[AbsentMojo]

Question, minus the past 10 years......so 2012 to 1900....were all the defenseman developing on their wrong side....or just developing?

I think he is developing fine, he has bonehead mistakes, 100%, he's also learned from them and you can see it in real time....I'd rather have Bjornfoot develop his offense in the AHL and be encouraged to try shit, than to shit the bed in the NHL and never to try again....there's a reason why people say prospects are brought up too fast......thats one of them, there are very lengthy careers by players who just do the safe thing.....is that we want from our prospects, at least they are safe?

I see your point.. its an art not a science.. but some guys just catch on like e.g. Seider and Boldy.. you'd never know it had they been left in the A for 1 or 2 years for seasoning. So maybe Bjornfot isnt one of them.. I chose him because I dont think Durzi belongs on the 2nd pair right side let alone the left side.

 

[Trash Panda]

God, I really f***ing love the ignore list.

10/10 feature.

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[JTeller97]

Friedman mentioned that Blake has been aggressive in seeking out moves for LD (Chychrun) and potentially goaltending. He said he can’t see LA not making a move for a big piece before the deadline.

Was this on 32 thoughts?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I see your point.. its an art not a science.. but some guys just catch on like e.g. Seider and Boldy.. you'd never know it had they been left in the A for 1 or 2 years for seasoning. So maybe Bjornfot isnt one of them.. I chose him because I dont think Durzi belongs on the 2nd pair right side let alone the left side.

Fair enough, that's a personal choice though, is it not, not a development, let the kids play choice, you want Bjornfoot up there making bonehead mistakes and learning from them vs Durzi.....

 

[AbsentMojo]

Bjornfot was arguably the worst regular defenseman in the league last season. It's a little early to say that he developed well last year. I will say his numbers look a bit better this season, but I don't know if last year is a good example of a guy finding his way in the league.

He has a nice skating stride and he's pretty fast, his reads were pretty good most of the time from what i remember.. he looked lost in the o-zone. I thought he did a good job of moving the puck up ice. he wasnt a standout to me, but he looked like a guy that understood how to play D the right way. So im more comparing him to Durzi - who I dont want to shit on, i just think he needs to be used differently. Sean Durzi has a skating stride that shouldve been correct in youth hockey. He skates on rails and does not push out enough... They put Toffolli back in the A to learn to skate as I recall. Durzi needs a skating coach. After that, he needs to bench press constantly.. he's weak he cant move guys off of pucks or from in front of the net. I want him down on the 3rd pairing on his right side with responsible partner.

 

[johnjm22]

Ol' Gray Beard won't be returning next year, so yes.

2023 Free Agents (L):

Dmitry Orlov (31)
Shayne Gostisbehere (29)
Oscar Klefbom (29)
Brian Dumoulin (31)
Jake Gardiner (33)
Ryan Graves (27)
Vladislav Gavrikov (27)
Carson Soucy (28)
Olli Maatta (28)

Sign me up for some Soucy! (previous cap hit: $2,750,000)

One of the things I like about Soucy is that he doesn't have that many miles on him. Only 200 NHL games.

Problem is, these guys always get overpaid in free agency. Someone is going to give him 4M, which is too much for a bottom pairing guy.


Ryan Graves (6'5" 220lbs) could be interesting:

Scouting Report:
Is a huge defenseman who can excel in a shutdown role, especially as he continues to learn how to use his size to its max. Not likely to put up big offensive numbers, but he can move the puck adequately and has a heavy point shot. Continues to show he is worthy of more playing time as his game matures, and he is a good partner for an offensive defenseman.

Long Range Potential: Big shutdown defenseman.


We need a big shutdown LHD to pair with an offensive RHD like Spence/Clarke. Grave's underlying metrics aren't great, but NJ is one of the best teams in the league and they heavily rely on Graves in a shutdown role.

 

[crassbonanza]

He has a nice skating stride and he's pretty fast, his reads were pretty good most of the time from what i remember.. he looked lost in the o-zone. I thought he did a good job of moving the puck up ice. he wasnt a standout to me, but he looked like a guy that understood how to play D the right way. So im more comparing him to Durzi - who I dont want to shit on, i just think he needs to be used differently. Sean Durzi has a skating stride that shouldve been correct in youth hockey. He skates on rails and does not push out enough... They put Toffolli back in the A to learn to skate as I recall. Durzi needs a skating coach. After that, he needs to bench press constantly.. he's weak he cant move guys off of pucks or from in front of the net. I want him down on the 3rd pairing on his right side with responsible partner.

The tough thing with Bjornfot(at least last year) is that he didn't bring anything to the table that helped the team. A -10.77 CF% Rel, a -6.39 CF% Rel, a -6.81 xGF% Rel while putting up just .46 ES P/60. All of those were worse than Durzi, but Durzi can put up points on the powerplay(and has a feistiness this team severely lacks). Bjornfot has looked better this season so he should probably get another shot, but his play last year was not the best.

I will say it is weird that before the season everyone was convinced that Durzi was just as good as Chychrun(or even better) and now a lot of people want him off the team.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Fair enough, that's a personal choice though, is it not, not a development, let the kids play choice, you want Bjornfoot up there making bonehead mistakes and learning from them vs Durzi.....

I just believe its worth a try to see if Bjornfot improves the pairings (at the expense of Walker) and get Mr Durzi back playing on his right side... But this really is splitting hairs.. The d-corps needs surgery to correct its deficiencies... and Bjornfot would only be a possible minor improvement.

 

[AbsentMojo]

The tough thing with Bjornfot(at least last year) is that he didn't bring anything to the table that helped the team. A -10.77 CF% Rel, a -6.39 CF% Rel, a -6.81 xGF% Rel while putting up just .46 ES P/60. All of those were worse than Durzi, but Durzi can put up points on the powerplay(and has a feistiness this team severely lacks). Bjornfot has looked better this season so he should probably get another shot, but his play last year was not the best.

I will say it is weird that before the season everyone was convinced that Durzi was just as good as Chychrun(or even better) and now a lot of people want him off the team.

Ya those are brutal numbers..I think Durzi on his wrong side is a problem esp on the 2nd pairing.. and Bjornfot could solve the wrong side issue. If you look at the right side D the pecking order is DD, Roy, Durzi, Spence, Clarke, Walker - you have 5 guys for 2 slots.. if you're penciling in Durzi... Walker Ill assume is gone - but where do Spence or Clarke slot in? That why you hear talk of moving Durzi since he has value now.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Then that's only a pattern because you have your head up your ass and refuse to look.....Vilardi was dicked around? Yet other teams broadcasters are saying he was brought up too fast......let me think....who do I think knows a bit more about what happened or why it happened, ex players.....or a 50 year old bear league player who watches from the couch (yes, I am including me in there as well)

The difference is, I know enough to know that I don't know f***all about what goes in in the room and behind closed doors....

You guys are old

 

[BringTheReign]

Was this on 32 thoughts?

It was in the 32 Thoughts podcast, yeah.