Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season

[kings11]

Yeah, hard agree on the Durzi stuff. It’s not easy to find 50+ points on the blueline regardless of how horrible that player is defensively. A lot of posters here just don’t comprehend that.

What good is a 50pt defenseman that can’t defend? No matter what side he’s played he’s looked terrible defensively.
Given a full season of PT on the Kings, I don’t see why either Clarke or Spence can’t get that type of production..

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What good is a 50pt defenseman that can’t defend? No matter what side he’s played he’s looked terrible defensively.
Given a full season of PT on the Kings, I don’t see why either Clarke or Spence can’t get that type of production..

Only 20 NHL dmen scored 50 pts or more last season, it's an elite crowd of mostly offensive dmen...if you can get that kind of production from a guy you're sheltering on your third pairing isntead of overplaying on his wrong side exposed with a defensive partner he has no chemistry with, it's a big deal.

Clarke and Spence are phenomenal but this forum collectively underrates Durzi's PP abilities in particular, there's no guarantees.

In the long term I agree Clarke will be 'the guy' and Spence can throw bombs so that'l be your likely PP1 and 2 but in the meantime this urge to jettison Durzi QUICKLY over his stupid usage is shortsighted.

 

[Fishhead]

Only 20 NHL dmen scored 50 pts or more last season, it's an elite crowd of mostly offensive dmen...if you can get that kind of production from a guy you're sheltering on your third pairing isntead of overplaying on his wrong side exposed with a defensive partner he has no chemistry with, it's a big deal.

Clarke and Spence are phenomenal but this forum collectively underrates Durzi's PP abilities in particular, there's no guarantees.

In the long term I agree Clarke will be 'the guy' and Spence can throw bombs so that'l be your likely PP1 and 2 but in the meantime this urge to jettison Durzi QUICKLY over his stupid usage is shortsighted.

The thing with Durzi is if he's deployed correctly, he's probably not a 50-point guy. He gets half his points on the PP, but if he's being sheltered on the 3rd pairing his time and production will both drop, so we would probably be looking at high 30's to low 40's. Still nothing to sneeze at, but something to consider.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Spence just quarterbacked the greatest PP in AHL history and was a 1st team All-Star. Its not a difficult leap to see him surpassing Durzi in very, very short order if given the chance.

So then let’s see if that happens. That doesn’t mean jettisoning a 50pt defenseman to the first team who dangles a 2nd at us.

 

[Docgonzo]

Durzi isn’t getting 50ish points if he’s playing 14-15ish mins a night. He’s getting those around those numbers now because he’s at 19-20mins a game right now.

Durzi is expendable because the way the pacific is shaping up, do you really want Durzi out vs McDavid/Drai/Beniers/Eichel/Wright/Zegras/McTavish and possibly Bedard in the playoffs. Opposing coach’s will be salivating at him being stuck out there.

Also let’s wait till he hits 50 before we call him a 50 point defender.

 

[johnjm22]

Durzi isn’t getting 50ish points if he’s playing 14-15ish mins a night. He’s getting those around those numbers now because he’s at 19-20mins a game right now.

That's not exactly a fair assessment IMO.

Durzi is playing 20min a night, but unlike most offensive Dmen, he's being used in a defensive role as well, which is part of the reason for the extra minutes.

He starts the majority of his shifts in the D-zone, and plays on the PK.

He's also not even on the team's top PP unit.

Most Dmen scoring at a 50 point pace get 3+ minutes of PP time per game, and get deployed in the offensive zone. Not Durzi though.

Been said a bunch of times already, but TMac is mishandling him.

 

[Statto]

Don’t know if this is true. I think it’s equally hard for both players. I have seen Durzi turn over the puck a lot because he can’t just slide the puck up the wall. The toe of his blade is facing the boards which makes it much more riskier to move the puck along. That’s why I am more lenient with him because he doesn’t get to utilize safer plays along the boards.

They have both been turnover machines this year with the vast majority of those in their own end. I’d live with offensive turnovers from Durzi as it’s often a risk with offensive guys but it’s massively skewed defensively. The rate of turnover has been consistent all year and largely unchanged regardless of where in the lineup (or which side) Durzi has been. Roy has been even more skewed to defensive with 100% of his in his own end when I last looked a week ago. Trading both in favour of Spence and Clarke improves the D and Roy’s (limited) physicality is what needs replacing in the trade for a LHD.

That's not exactly a fair assessment IMO.

Durzi is playing 20min a night, but unlike most offensive Dmen, he's being used in a defensive role as well, which is part of the reason for the extra minutes.

He starts the majority of his shifts in the D-zone, and plays on the PK.

He's also not even on the team's top PP unit.

Most Dmen scoring at a 50 point pace get 3+ minutes of PP time per game, and get deployed in the offensive zone. Not Durzi though.

Been said a bunch of times already, but TMac is mishandling him.

I agree with that, if he’s in the lineup it should be pp1 and 3rd pairing. However if we‘d given Clarke the same rope this season instead of Durzi he’s likely producing enough offence without the need to shelter him nearly so much.

 

[Statto]

So then let’s see if that happens. That doesn’t mean jettisoning a 50pt defenseman to the first team who dangles a 2nd at us.

Agreed. It should be to help fill one of the two holes a LHD or goal.

 

[2-4 Slashin]

Some weird statements here.

I think as fans we’re probably the most patient with a rebuild since we’re used to having a bad franchise. Some hyperbole being thrown around here about the growing frustration with the team that I will simplify to cut through these weird caricatures.

1. Kopitar and Doughty problem - at first we were all happy to have them be a part of the rebuild as mentors for the new players but that never happened because Kopitar and Doughty didn’t transition into support players. The way they were played as if the Kings were focused on winning rather than letting the youth get experience from high pressure moments. For example, Vilardi does not get OT time while Arvidsson and Moore does.

2. Next issue is asset management as a whole. We have players like Walker and Edler suppressing players like Spence and Clarke. We have a ton of RD that Blake for some reason didn’t trade for LD or improve the goaltending that struggled heavily. Both who are an easy upgrade over the current two in the line up. Coaching and or management, but the way they deploy these players is gross.

3. Drafting and development. It’s no shock or surprise that this issue pops up. How much of it has to do with Kopitar and Doughty eating a ton of ice time , I’m not sure, however the drafting and development has been abysmal. Byfield, injuries and age excuse don’t really explain why he just doesn’t ever look impressive. To the unknown fan you would never guess he was a second overall pick. 3rd or 4th rounder at best. Adrian Kempe “Success Story” the only player who supposedly developed but took like what 6 years? Had one really good season but is back to dogging it again. Had an anomaly season. Now Vilardi, I think he’s the miracle of this team. There’s nothing to indicate the team is responsible for this growth, but he’s the only player who’s looked talented that is growing. Through the entire rebuild and top picks, the Kings are looking at Vilardi and Clarke being by far the best players.

4. Identity. This one probably pisses me off the most. I swear to god if anyone of you could tell me what it’s certainty what the identity of this team is, you wouldn’t be able to. It blows my mind that we’re in 3 years, nearly 4 with Tmac and I have no idea what the team is wanting to play like. Blake doesn’t even know either. That’s absolutely ridiculous that Seattle established a team identity while only being 2 seasons old. And the Kings have ZERO identity.


To summarize, we’re patient as fans but there’s plenty of evidence that implicates that there are issues with drafting and development. Massive Issues with coaching for sure. And lack of aggressiveness from Blake to get a goalie and Ld when it’s been a super weak position for over a year. rebuild is fine but when you rebuild incorrectly that’s when the distrust will naturally happen. The team has so many question marks.


People don’t realize how close the Kings are to imploding if they keep this direction towards nothingness.

Sadly, this is spot on. Find identity and you can fill in the blanks and jettison the question marks. TMac is not the coach for this developing team. He’s not horrible, he’s just the guy who coached against us when we had an identity and got his team reverse swept. What he did with a talented Sharks team is what he’s doing with the Kings. He has no killer instinct, he has no guts and it reflects on the Kings style of play when they face adversity, or when the opposing team shows that they have resiliency and start fighting back. He always seems to let the team take the foot off the gas when we’re ahead and then says things post game like. “We’re not playing our game” or “we’re not trusting eachother”. Hey Mac, it’s your damn team. Make it so!

And Blake, I’m one of the few fans who forgave him from his player days when this team was playing money games with him and he and he bit back!!
But now, I don’t know why he’s suddenly so gun shy about calling out the team. I have no idea what development model he’s following. Or if he’s just resting on some early GM acumen far too soon. But he’s strangely absent in commentary on the team of late. Maybe it’s because he’s not seeing his prospects panning out as quickly, or he sees that he really has no development program in place. Hiring Wrobo was a smart move. But after that fell apart it seems he never fixed it. And if he doesn’t put some real effort into the development program and bringing in staff who will give the kids identity… All of our eggs in the basket of Ontario are gonna to go bad. Winning Cups in the AHL is not the goal. AHL teams are there to develop the kids individually. To teach them how to use their specific skills in the pro game, and to add missing skill sets. It’s purpose is not to teach the kids how to be the best AHL’ers they can be. They’re not supposed to be down there for so long that an AHL cup is their heyday! Ifthey develop quick and win down there… Great!! But it’s not the goal. Ontario coaching is always in flux anyway. So Is it any wonder that our kids (who ARE talented) still seem to need to go back down to “get seasoning”. The truth is we’re sending some kids down for lack of minutes. We hype our rookies up then go out and sign vets who we then compare the kids deficiencies against. I hope against hope that Blake gets a better AHL system going before we screw up Fagemo, Chromiak, Pinelli, Clarke, Grans and Helenius. I’m already concerned that we’ve tainted the careers of Byfield, Kupari, JAD, Bjornfot and Moverware. I think we may have just broke Turcotte and have no idea why we haven’t let Lias Anderson go to a team that might actually want him. I’ve never seen a team with so many ranked prospects heading into or already in “Waiver Danger”. I mean what the hell?!? Blow up the boys club and get real development in here!!

 

[kings11]

Only 20 NHL dmen scored 50 pts or more last season, it's an elite crowd of mostly offensive dmen...if you can get that kind of production from a guy you're sheltering on your third pairing isntead of overplaying on his wrong side exposed with a defensive partner he has no chemistry with, it's a big deal.

Clarke and Spence are phenomenal but this forum collectively underrates Durzi's PP abilities in particular, there's no guarantees.

In the long term I agree Clarke will be 'the guy' and Spence can throw bombs so that'l be your likely PP1 and 2 but in the meantime this urge to jettison Durzi QUICKLY over his stupid usage is shortsighted.

You literally answered why the Kings need to move Durzi, RJ. There is no place for him on the Kings with both those two kids ready for a full time NHL gig. Shit, same goes for Roy, Walker and Edler, Bjornfot and Moverare should be part of the LHD equation.

As for Durzi, well he’s building up value the more he scores and could/should be part of the package for a much needed LHD or maybe even a goaltender

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Amazing how many people take for granted that success in juniors and success in the AHL will automatically mean success in the NHL....

 

[AnThGrt]

Amazing how many people take for granted that success in juniors and success in the AHL will automatically mean success in the NHL....

You do not remember how Pavel Rosa came up and lit up the league? How Dowd and Shore were everyone's offensive weapons for us? Talking about dmen so how K. Dallman was not just our new Schneider yet better. Reason he now dominates the KHL.

We possess 20% of the leagues ~50pts capable dmen. Damn good drafting!

 

[Schrute farms]

Between now and off-season: Roy traded and Walker traded/waived. Even baring a big trade using Durzi, i don't see that big of a logjam next year if that happens.

Then you have four RHD for three spots -- DD, Spence, Durzi & Clarke. DD has been a bit injury prone lately. Spence & Clarke may need an occasional stint in Ontario and/or days off -- not sure you can expect them to all of a sudden handle and make it thru an 82 game season. Same for Durzi. You theoretically can give all these guys 50-80 games. That's without someone getting randomly injured.

Personally, i think a big trade using Durzi+ (for a LHD) and keeping Roy as your #7 / rotational guy might be best play here. But i do think it's very realistic to simply jettison Walker/Roy and have enough playing time for the four RHD.

 

[YP44]

Between now and off-season: Roy traded and Walker traded/waived. Even baring a big trade using Durzi, i don't see that big of a logjam next year if that happens.

Then you have four RHD for three spots -- DD, Spence, Durzi & Clarke. DD has been a bit injury prone lately. Spence & Clarke may need an occasional stint in Ontario and/or days off -- not sure you can expect them to all of a sudden handle and make it thru an 82 game season. Same for Durzi. You theoretically can give all these guys 50-80 games. That's without someone getting randomly injured.

Personally, i think a big trade using Durzi+ (for a LHD) and keeping Roy as your #7 / rotational guy might be best play here. But i do think it's very realistic to simply jettison Walker/Roy and have enough playing time for the four RHD.

all depends what/who the market wants.

 

[bland]

So then let’s see if that happens. That doesn’t mean jettisoning a 50pt defenseman to the first team who dangles a 2nd at us.

Actually, it should. The stat lines are ALWAYS a smokescreen. Look at what's happening here:

Durzi contributes a terrific amount of offense and a terrible amount of defense. Its indicative of the major issue this year's team is facing. The theme of this years team is "do the Kings think they can score their way out of the trouble?" In general terms it works against lousy teams, fails against better ones, which most certainly points to an early exit as the most likely option.

That's Durzi is a nutshell. High event hockey. I invite folks to give examples of successful teams that feature high event defensemen. There is a reason why Marc Andre Bergereon types have a limited shelf life, team's enjoy the offense they create but in short order learn that this particular juice isn't worth the squeeze.

The Kings have multiple E-ticket defensemen ready for that exact same spot right now, they can avoid that issue with Durzi entirely AND move forward. Weight it up and its a no brainer, you go with Spence or Clarke.

I'll agree it would be unreasonable to expect either to hit more than 30 points, so even if one is stat obsessed, you are talking about just one more goal for every 4 games, but how many goals against are you preventing in that same time frame?

Controlled hockey is winning hockey, chaotic hockey makes for better entertainment but worse results.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Actually, it should. The stat lines are ALWAYS a smokescreen. Look at what's happening here:

Durzi contributes a terrific amount of offense and a terrible amount of defense. Its indicative of the major issue this year's team is facing. The theme of this years team is "do the Kings think they can score their way out of the trouble?" In general terms it works against lousy teams, fails against better ones, which most certainly points to an early exit as the most likely option.

That's Durzi is a nutshell. High event hockey. I invite folks to give examples of successful teams that feature high event defensemen. There is a reason why Marc Andre Bergereon types have a limited shelf life, team's enjoy the offense they create but in short order learn that this particular juice isn't worth the squeeze.

The Kings have multiple E-ticket defensemen ready for that exact same spot right now, they can avoid that issue with Durzi entirely AND move forward. Weight it up and its a no brainer, you go with Spence or Clarke.

I'll agree it would be unreasonable to expect either to hit more than 30 points, so even if one is stat obsessed, you are talking about just one more goal for every 4 games, but how many goals against are you preventing in that same time frame?

Controlled hockey is winning hockey, chaotic hockey makes for better entertainment but worse results.

I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with this, we're just adding that he's
1. Horribly misused and offense is underrated and, more importantly,
2. You don't dump him just to dump him, there is value there and Durzi in particular is one of the things I agree with Blake being patient on.

I guess another corollary 3. he's beloved on the team and plays with some balls at least.

You don't need to insult anyone by suggesting we're just drooling over his entertainment factor, we get it. I remember you and I agreeing when he was called up that this was basically his best case scenario turnout and he'd likely never develop the defensive side because he was that far behind.

 

[Docgonzo]

I do like Durzi but he has the worst situational awareness I’ve ever seen in a defender. His pinches and joining the rush when the Kings are tied or up by 1 are some of the most asinine things I’ve ever seen. He makes Karlsson look like Lidstrom out there.

 

[LAKings88]

I do like Durzi but he has the worst situational awareness I’ve ever seen in a defender. His pinches and joining the rush when the Kings are tied or up by 1 are some of the most asinine things I’ve ever seen. He makes Karlsson look like Lidstrom out there.

Isn’t Karlsson his idol?

 

[Fishhead]

That's not exactly a fair assessment IMO.

Durzi is playing 20min a night, but unlike most offensive Dmen, he's being used in a defensive role as well, which is part of the reason for the extra minutes.

He starts the majority of his shifts in the D-zone, and plays on the PK.

He's also not even on the team's top PP unit.

Most Dmen scoring at a 50 point pace get 3+ minutes of PP time per game, and get deployed in the offensive zone. Not Durzi though.

Been said a bunch of times already, but TMac is mishandling him.

This is true, but could be misleading.

At ES, Durzi does have more dzone starts than ozone, but so does every King except Spence, Clarke, and Walker. The Kings aren't really deploying anyone defensively, among the regulars Ozone start % is pretty consistent sans Walker and Clarke.

His PP time is 2:35 per game, Doughty's is 3:16. No other defenseman is even close. There are only 29 defensmen in the league who average over 3 minutes per game. Durzi is 38th overall in PP ice time per game in the NHL, that's major opportunity.

I just don't see how he gets 50 points if he's deployed on the 3rd line. He gets a lot of points on the PP, but he also has the highest points per 60 on the team at ES. Based on his pace 4 minutes less per game means 8 points less per season at ES. Other factors will play into that obviously, but everything points to him being between 38-42 points if deployed in a 3rd line role.

One thing will improve if he moves down, and that's goals against. He has the worst GF% on the team, even worse than Walker.

Sifting through that data did tell me one thing for certain, that's unrelated, but Mikey Anderson is a f***ing stud.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is true, but could be misleading.

At ES, Durzi does have more dzone starts than ozone, but so does every King except Spence, Clarke, and Walker. The Kings aren't really deploying anyone defensively, among the regulars Ozone start % is pretty consistent sans Walker and Clarke.

His PP time is 2:35 per game, Doughty's is 3:16. No other defenseman is even close. There are only 29 defensmen in the league who average over 3 minutes per game. Durzi is 38th overall in PP ice time per game in the NHL, that's major opportunity.

I just don't see how he gets 50 points if he's deployed on the 3rd line. He gets a lot of points on the PP, but he also has the highest points per 60 on the team at ES. Based on his pace 4 minutes less per game means 8 points less per season at ES. Other factors will play into that obviously, but everything points to him being between 38-42 points if deployed in a 3rd line role.

One thing will improve if he moves down, and that's goals against. He has the worst GF% on the team, even worse than Walker.

Sifting through that data did tell me one thing for certain, that's unrelated, but Mikey Anderson is a f***ing stud.

Just related to the bold, but absolutely f***ing not...no way......you forgot the one underlying factor that apparently everyone on this board gets.....

He is an LA King defenseman......ergo, he sucks monkey balls all day long....

 

[bmr]

Only 20 NHL dmen scored 50 pts or more last season, it's an elite crowd of mostly offensive dmen...if you can get that kind of production from a guy you're sheltering on your third pairing isntead of overplaying on his wrong side exposed with a defensive partner he has no chemistry with, it's a big deal.

Clarke and Spence are phenomenal but this forum collectively underrates Durzi's PP abilities in particular, there's no guarantees.

In the long term I agree Clarke will be 'the guy' and Spence can throw bombs so that'l be your likely PP1 and 2 but in the meantime this urge to jettison Durzi QUICKLY over his stupid usage is shortsighted.

For me it's not really about underrating Durzi but more about the future design of this team's D-corps.

Would you rather have Doughty/Clarke/Spence or Doughty/Clarke/Durzi? Spence is 21, came in to Ontario as a rookie and basically put up a PPG, while maintaining a very good +/-. He also played 24 games with the Kings in 21-22 and didn't look out of place. Durzi didn't achieve that until year 3. I'm okay with pairing a stay-at-home guy with Durzi to try and mask his mistakes, but if we are making choices for our defensemen in the future, there is going to be an odd man out.

I'm willing to bet you that if Spence is given the opportunity for top PP time he will put up very similar numbers to Durzi. Spence > Durzi all the way for me.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with this, we're just adding that he's
1. Horribly misused and offense is underrated and, more importantly,
2. You don't dump him just to dump him, there is value there and Durzi in particular is one of the things I agree with Blake being patient on.

I guess another corollary 3. he's beloved on the team and plays with some balls at least.

You don't need to insult anyone by suggesting we're just drooling over his entertainment factor, we get it. I remember you and I agreeing when he was called up that this was basically his best case scenario turnout and he'd likely never develop the defensive side because he was that far behind.

The hardest part about Durzi is his value. The reason I think he would be a great trade piece is he has a ton of it. I'm not dumping him for a pick for sure, but in a trade for a sure-fire defensive need? Absolutely.

The offensive gap between Durzi and Spence/Clarke is probably not as big as the gap between a true shut-down defender and all of our blue liners, sans Anderson.

 

[Fishhead]

For me it's not really about underrating Durzi but more about the future design of this team's D-corps.

Would you rather have Doughty/Clarke/Spence or Doughty/Clarke/Durzi? Spence is 21, came in to Ontario as a rookie and basically put up a PPG, while maintaining a very good +/-. He also played 24 games with the Kings in 21-22 and didn't look out of place. Durzi didn't achieve that until year 3. I'm okay with pairing a stay-at-home guy with Durzi to try and mask his mistakes, but if we are making choices for our defensemen in the future, there is going to be an odd man out.

I'm willing to bet you that if Spence is given the opportunity for top PP time he will put up very similar numbers to Durzi. Spence > Durzi all the way for me.

I also think that Spence is better overall, but should Durzi be traded or kept around? If he's kept on as a #7 or injury insurance, what do you pay him? If you trade him, what do you expect back for him?

Tough questions. I honestly never expected Spence to do what he has been doing, and it's really thrown a wrench (pleasantly) into the defensive prospect pool.

 

[unicornpig]

Durzi, iafallo/kempe, 1st for chycrun

 

[Fishhead]

Durzi, iafallo/kempe, 1st for chycrun

Chychrun has looked much better this year, really solid on the ice. That said, he's getting creampuff deployments and lots of Ozone starts. Having a positive Ozone start percentage on Arizona is really saying something, they constantly start in their own zone. Moser, who gets the tougher jobs, has 39 offensive to 111 defensive starts. Craziness.

Still not sure if he's worth that ask.