Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season Part 2

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Johnny Utah

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
11,098
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Santa Monica, CA
Kings should honestly just deal Kayilev and Bjornfot this summer. Bjornfot is not the big, physical LHD the Kings need and Arty can't crack a line-up with Kempe, Arvidsson, and Vilardi ALL shooting and playing RW.

Grundstrom is typically a RW (and shoots right) playing on LW.

So essentially, the Kings already have 4 right handed wingers without Arthur.

Byfield, Fiala, and Iaffalo are eating up the other Left Wing spots. Even if the Kings switch Byfield back to center, they aren't going to play Kayilev with Kopitar-Kempe. So he's back to the 4th line.
 

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,860
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Unemployed in Greenland
Nope. Are you disputing that his offensive production is in the bottom third of first line centers? That's factually correct.

Are you disputing that the players drafted by the Kings have been relegated to supporting roles behind veteran acquisitions in order to chase the playoffs instead of concentrating on their development? Yeah, good luck there.

Are you disputing that the Kings haven't won a series or more than 6 playoff games in the first seven years of his extension? You are gonna lose that one too.

Kopitar has received $70 million dollars from the Kings while not winning a single playoff series.

I am the one that told every single one of you on this and other boards that the Kings would see ZERO success during the duration of Kopitar's new contract, laid out the exact reasons why, and hasn't changed a single iota of that explanation since 2015.

The correct move was always to thank Anze for his accomplishments and trade him instead of offering an extension. There was never going to be a positive outcome with that contract, and I have been proven correct in that analysis time and again.

So stick your head wherever it will fit, ignore the problems and call me whatever names you want, you're sucking hind teet on this one.
Bland and I don’t agree on everything, but this is as close to checkmate as you’ll see on an internet message board.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
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I believe he was up on the top unit a bunch of games when someone got hurt as well as the 2nd unit too. He's had plenty of times starting at 3rd line wing as well. He's just not a smart player, you can see it at times that it's just not there. Simple stuff like at the blueline, not getting the puck in deep and get the forcheck going. He tries to make an extra move, or knocked off the puck super easily and gets picked off and its an outnumbered attack. I want him to succeed and use his shot more, but it just not there at times, like everything else. He's a good player, but can't seem to figure it out.

He only started a handful of games there and I believe he only actually finished a game there once. It definitely wasn't 'a bunch' and he hardly got more minutes.

If you're not going to give a top six guy time to figure it out, trade him, don't waste him on the bottom lines and wonder why he can't check OR score. Let's not forget he broke his foot blocking as hot so it's not like there's zero effort.

And again Kaliyev in particular is just symbolic and this conversation is about why they're 'not ready,' play stupid games win stupid prizes by blake and co.
 

kingsfan28

Its A Kingspiracy !
Feb 27, 2005
40,216
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He only started a handful of games there and I believe he only actually finished a game there once. It definitely wasn't 'a bunch' and he hardly got more minutes.

If you're not going to give a top six guy time to figure it out, trade him, don't waste him on the bottom lines and wonder why he can't check OR score.

And again Kaliyev in particular is just symbolic and this conversation is about why they're 'not ready,' play stupid games win stupid prizes by blake and co.

But where do you play him if your top 6 is filled out? Who does he replace in that established top 6 ? He has not shown he's better than Valardi,Moore,Avi, Fiala or Kempe . If he was, then he'd be there. He should be excelling on the 3rd line with less defensive responsibility, which is a perfect spot for him to grow. He has yet to do that, and thats on him.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
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But where do you play him if your top 6 is filled out? Who does he replace in that established top 6 ? He has not shown he's better than Valardi,Moore,Avi, Fiala or Kempe . If he was, then he'd be there. He should be excelling on the 3rd line with less defensive responsibility, which is a perfect spot for him to grow. He has yet to do that, and thats on him.

Okay, Rob.

edit: realized that came off snottier than I meant. My point is just you're ignoring the entire line of reasoning to hyperfocus on Kaliyev and the entire point is the longer you say 'the kids are not ready' the longer it's going to be true.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,546
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Nope. Are you disputing that his offensive production is in the bottom third of first line centers? That's factually correct.

Are you disputing that the players drafted by the Kings have been relegated to supporting roles behind veteran acquisitions in order to chase the playoffs instead of concentrating on their development? Yeah, good luck there.

Are you disputing that the Kings haven't won a series or more than 6 playoff games in the first seven years of his extension? You are gonna lose that one too.

Kopitar has received $70 million dollars from the Kings while not winning a single playoff series.

I am the one that told every single one of you on this and other boards that the Kings would see ZERO success during the duration of Kopitar's new contract, laid out the exact reasons why, and hasn't changed a single iota of that explanation since 2015.

The correct move was always to thank Anze for his accomplishments and trade him instead of offering an extension. There was never going to be a positive outcome with that contract, and I have been proven correct in that analysis time and again.

So stick your head wherever it will fit, ignore the problems and call me whatever names you want, you're sucking hind teet on this one.
I was on the trade Kopitar train as well, prior to his last deal, and like you took a bunch of BS for it.

...and I wasn't saying Kopitar isn't a very good player, or that he was done. I was simply saying I hated his contract.

It is going exactly as expected.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
10,177
8,318
I was on the trade Kopitar train as well, prior to his last deal, and like you took a bunch of BS for it.

...and I wasn't saying Kopitar isn't a very good player, or that he was done. I was simply saying I hated his contract.

It is going exactly as expected.

So did I. So did Dean Lombardi himself. There was a lot of hardball and passive aggressive media stuff at the time.

It’s been speculated for a long time that Robitaille or someone else in upper management and forced Dean’s hand on that deal.
 
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kingsfan28

Its A Kingspiracy !
Feb 27, 2005
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So did I. So did Dean Lombardi himself. There was a lot of hardball and passive aggressive media stuff at the time.

It’s been speculated for a long time that Robitaille or someone else in upper management and forced Dean’s hand on that deal.

I'm sure Dean would've used the cash to sign Lucic to that insane contract he got from EDM. :oops:
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
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Many of the Kings prospects in that 2017-2020 window never got the traditional and optimal development path that most kids get, Kaliyev is an example of this, and it could be argued he suffered the most (him or QB).

Kaliyev never got a chance to grow his game in a low pressure situation, when he broke in with the Kings he was put into a bottom six role on a team trying to make the playoffs. Just an awful spot for a kid with a lot of talent but some warts to be put into. Then traded for VA and Fiala, and Gabe came back from the dead and in addition to that they committed long term $4m deals to Iafallo and Moore after Arty was drafted. And to those who are critical of certain aspects of game, yes he has some issues, but if someone with his offensive skills was good defensively he’d be a star. Arty brings a lethal shot and good offensive skill but he doesn’t skate well, has no physicality and is terrible defensively. I just don’t understand why so many on this forum rag on young offensive players (whether on the Kings or elsewhere) for defensive shortcomings or lack of physicality but won’t hold it against offensive black holes like Kupari, Turcotte, JAD and before that guys like Lewis and Stoll. It’s like you can do nothing offensively and get a a pass but if you are a gifted offensive player (even one’s putting up 70 or even 90 points) the flaws to your game are magnified. Scorers are drafted at the top of the draft because finding scorers is harder than finding guys who PK, have a good motor, backcheck well or are physical.

QB was in the same boat. Completely wasted in the AHL for a year when there was a clear opening in a low pressure scoring line role. Rob Blake could have done what just about every other GM in a similar spot has done before with picks this high. Told QB to soak up what Kopitar does like a sponge, watch him play every night, how he handles everything and learn from him. Play your game and get better, don’t worry about making mistakes, just get better. Instead QB is the youngest player in the AHL on a bad team with a coach having a nervous breakdown and gaining squat in the AHL. And then the next season he is thrown into an NHL lineup on a team suddenly trying to make the playoffs. So he never had a chance to get better offensively without the fear that every mistake was going to cost the team in a playoff race. Just an extraordinarily awful development decision that I’m not sure any other GM would have made in the same situation. One that is still damaging the player to this day.
 

Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
Sep 16, 2005
3,863
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Fast tracking a rebuild or retool puts us where we are. I guess we never learned from our past mis- management. A prospect pool that ranked in the top 3 just a few years ago now ranks average at best without a single player making an impact, all because we want to win a round. Gone are our 1st round picks as well. Hopefully we sign Gavri to cushion that blow. What the team desperately needs now is young talent on ELC producing to offset the cap crunch.

Next game is a big one. Not only for the series but direction of this team. If we get blown out, I expect changes. I hope the players respond, including the ones that haven't played up to expectations. Big statement game for Kopi and Doughty to see if they can still lead this team or if they are done.
 
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Trash Panda

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May 12, 2021
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Fast tracking a rebuild or retool puts us where we are. I guess we never learned from our past mis- management. A prospect pool that ranked in the top 3 just a few years ago now ranks average at best without a single player making an impact, all because we want to win a round. Gone are our 1st round picks as well. Hopefully we sign Gavri to cushion that blow. What the team desperately needs now is young talent on ELC producing to offset the cap crunch.

Next game is a big one. Not only for the series but direction of this team. If we get blown out, I expect changes. I hope the players respond, including the ones that haven't played up to expectations. Big statement game for Kopi and Doughty to see if they can still lead this team or if they are done.
Until there is a shift in the attitude of ownership, and the Rob/luc show is sent down the river, there will only be bandaids for the roster in the name of “get in the playoffs and anything can happen”.

It’s Dave Taylor 2.0
 
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KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
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Until there is a shift in the attitude of ownership, and the Rob/luc show is sent down the river, there will only be bandaids for the roster in the name of “get in the playoffs and anything can happen”.

It’s Dave Taylor 2.0
Kings fans are very much like single mothers. BLuc have been shoplifting the pootie ever since they took over and pretending to be serious about building a contender.

As fans, we complete them. I don't think they care though. They selfishly bought the time they wanted for themselves and their personal well being with this charade.

 
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ZJames

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Jan 4, 2011
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Dont worry about it
Until there is a shift in the attitude of ownership, and the Rob/luc show is sent down the river, there will only be bandaids for the roster in the name of “get in the playoffs and anything can happen”.

It’s Dave Taylor 2.0
We have to give Dave at least a little credit, he did draft Brown, Kopitar, and Quick. He also drafted Lubo and Frolov. But he did have some stinkers, like Lauri Toukenan. He got very poor return on the 1st round picks he did trade, though.

Also, he got screwed on the Ollie Jokenin ordeal (at least I think Dave was the GM at that time)

But I think his legacy would have been greater had Deadmarsh, Allison, and Palffy stayed healthy.
 
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Schrute farms

LA Kings: new GM wanted -- inquire within
Jul 7, 2020
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I hated the Kopitar deal but hated the Doughty deal even more. Not only was it more money, but it was waaaay after the cup window.
Yeah, i understood the Kopi one. You almost had to do it. I didn't have much problem with that. He makes a good figure head and mentor for the new youth in a rebuild. So he's the guy you prop up as the franchise SC winning future HOFer.

But Doughty -- i was absolutely on the train that he needed to be traded leading up to his new deal. By that point, you could see we were heading toward the bottom and needed to rebuild. You could get a great return for DD still at that time. IT doesn't matter if he is a future HOF. You got that in Kopi and (at the time) possibly Quick. whatever though, what's done is done.
 

bmr

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Jan 23, 2013
1,881
1,705
Many of the Kings prospects in that 2017-2020 window never got the traditional and optimal development path that most kids get, Kaliyev is an example of this, and it could be argued he suffered the most (him or QB).

Kaliyev never got a chance to grow his game in a low pressure situation, when he broke in with the Kings he was put into a bottom six role on a team trying to make the playoffs. Just an awful spot for a kid with a lot of talent but some warts to be put into. Then traded for VA and Fiala, and Gabe came back from the dead and in addition to that they committed long term $4m deals to Iafallo and Moore after Arty was drafted. And to those who are critical of certain aspects of game, yes he has some issues, but if someone with his offensive skills was good defensively he’d be a star. Arty brings a lethal shot and good offensive skill but he doesn’t skate well, has no physicality and is terrible defensively. I just don’t understand why so many on this forum rag on young offensive players (whether on the Kings or elsewhere) for defensive shortcomings or lack of physicality but won’t hold it against offensive black holes like Kupari, Turcotte, JAD and before that guys like Lewis and Stoll. It’s like you can do nothing offensively and get a a pass but if you are a gifted offensive player (even one’s putting up 70 or even 90 points) the flaws to your game are magnified. Scorers are drafted at the top of the draft because finding scorers is harder than finding guys who PK, have a good motor, backcheck well or are physical.

QB was in the same boat. Completely wasted in the AHL for a year when there was a clear opening in a low pressure scoring line role. Rob Blake could have done what just about every other GM in a similar spot has done before with picks this high. Told QB to soak up what Kopitar does like a sponge, watch him play every night, how he handles everything and learn from him. Play your game and get better, don’t worry about making mistakes, just get better. Instead QB is the youngest player in the AHL on a bad team with a coach having a nervous breakdown and gaining squat in the AHL. And then the next season he is thrown into an NHL lineup on a team suddenly trying to make the playoffs. So he never had a chance to get better offensively without the fear that every mistake was going to cost the team in a playoff race. Just an extraordinarily awful development decision that I’m not sure any other GM would have made in the same situation. One that is still damaging the player to this day.
Herby,

I hear what you're saying, but the best players always persevere and rise to the top, regardless of the development path.

With Kaliyev, there are definitely shortcomings in his game that made him drop in the draft. His best ability is that lethal shot and the fact that he just seems to have a nose for the net. He will need to fill out the rest of his game in order to be a truly complete player in this league. He just has some goofy tendencies. It would be nice if we could get him more involved on the PP, but ultimately I think he's going to be involved in a trade.

With QB, i'm not concerned with how they handled his development. He had that injury issue and needed to marinade in the AHL for a bit. He wasn't placed on the first line right off the bat. They had him in a 3rd line situation, but that changed when Iafallo got hurt and they have to move some lines around. I think the decision to move him with Kopitar and Kempe was very smart in that he's learning from 2 of the best on the team. Has he made some pretty big mistakes in the playoffs? Yup, but that's part of the learning process. I don't think that this will damage him beyond repair, but he will need to rise to the occasion.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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Herby,

I hear what you're saying, but the best players always persevere and rise to the top, regardless of the development path.

With Kaliyev, there are definitely shortcomings in his game that made him drop in the draft. His best ability is that lethal shot and the fact that he just seems to have a nose for the net. He will need to fill out the rest of his game in order to be a truly complete player in this league. He just has some goofy tendencies. It would be nice if we could get him more involved on the PP, but ultimately I think he's going to be involved in a trade.

With QB, i'm not concerned with how they handled his development. He had that injury issue and needed to marinade in the AHL for a bit. He wasn't placed on the first line right off the bat. They had him in a 3rd line situation, but that changed when Iafallo got hurt and they have to move some lines around. I think the decision to move him with Kopitar and Kempe was very smart in that he's learning from 2 of the best on the team. Has he made some pretty big mistakes in the playoffs? Yup, but that's part of the learning process. I don't think that this will damage him beyond repair, but he will need to rise to the occasion.

That’s just not true, though, and not even logically consistent. If good players required no conscious development or nurturing, there wouldn’t be development programs at all.

Moreover, just look at what our TMac did with Draisaitl when he was coaching in Edmonton.

Sometimes it’s the player, sure. And sometimes it’s management.
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,615
16,386
Michigan
Herby,

I hear what you're saying, but the best players always persevere and rise to the top, regardless of the development path.

With Kaliyev, there are definitely shortcomings in his game that made him drop in the draft. His best ability is that lethal shot and the fact that he just seems to have a nose for the net. He will need to fill out the rest of his game in order to be a truly complete player in this league. He just has some goofy tendencies. It would be nice if we could get him more involved on the PP, but ultimately I think he's going to be involved in a trade.

With QB, i'm not concerned with how they handled his development. He had that injury issue and needed to marinade in the AHL for a bit. He wasn't placed on the first line right off the bat. They had him in a 3rd line situation, but that changed when Iafallo got hurt and they have to move some lines around. I think the decision to move him with Kopitar and Kempe was very smart in that he's learning from 2 of the best on the team. Has he made some pretty big mistakes in the playoffs? Yup, but that's part of the learning process. I don't think that this will damage him beyond repair, but he will need to rise to the occasion.

Why did QB have to marinate in the AHL? The vast majority of players taken in the Top 3 never see AHL time, are you just of the opinion that QB is one of the worst players to be taken in the Top 3 over the past 2-3 decades? I mean he could be based on early returns, but if that is the case then why did the Kings take the next step in their rebuild? And does Blake who was supposedly the ultimate deciding factor in taking QB over a player who is a budding superstar deserve any of the blame for that?

And I don't disagree that most responsibility falls on the player, and I agree the truly elite ones would overcome poor choices. Had Dave Taylor put Kopitar in the AHL at 18 or Dean had sent Doughty back to junior, its likely they are still elite NHL stars. And I'm not sitting here saying that had Byfield and Turcotte been handled in ways that have been traditionally successful that they would be Malkin and Toews, they aren't at the same level as those guys, or of AK and Drew, but it's very unlikely it is this historically bad (and that's not hyperbole, it's historically bad for both Top 5 picks). For players of that caliber the development choices absolutely do matter a lot in reaching potential and the poor ones Blake has made have undoubtedly caused damage to the players. If QB has an NHL season in a low pressure situation next to Carter and has 60 more games than he has right now, it's way more likely he is at least a competent Top 6-9 player for the Kings. If Turcotte had a 2nd season in college, getting bigger and getting more confident in all 3 zones it's very likely he is at least capable of centering a 4th line right now. Neither of those things are a reality right now for either guy, and it's fair to say the wasted season in the AHL for both is a big reason why.

As far as Kaliyev, the thing is, he's never going to be a complete player. He is an offensive zone player who has an elite high-end skill in shooting the puck and flaws in other areas. The Kings knew this when they drafted him with a high pick in the 2nd round. When you take a player like you have to know that the only way he becomes successful is in a role where his talent can be maximized, which is playing in a scoring line role, preferably with a player who can get him the puck and minimize his shortcomings. It's the same thing with Montreal who took Caufield with an even higher pick in that draft. They did the usual two years in college routine and immediately added him to their roster (on a team that made the final!), and put him in a position to succeed, and he scored some massive goals for them in their run to the finals (while his shortcomings were highlighted by many here for some reason). Contrast that with the Kings, who since Kaliyev was drafted have traded one of their elite prospects and a 1st for a scoring winger in Fiala, traded picks for another scoring winger in VA, signed Moore and Iafallo to extensions, and moved two of their failing center picks to the wing.

If you aren't willing to give the player that type of chance that Montreal gabe Caufield, either don't draft a player like that (take another center who can't score for the 858th time) or trade him for help in areas you need it LHD or (shockingly) C. The way guys like Kaliyev and Bjornfot have been managed is criminal, if you don't like them anymore as players, that is fine, but trade them to improve other areas, don't let their value plummet. And that is the case, both players are way less valuable now than they were after last season ended.

Again I just don't know why defensive shortcomings or lack of physicality is a reason for a player with an elite offensive skill to not be given a chance or criticized by some around here while players like Kupari, Turcotte and JAD who couldn't score on a soccer goal are praised or given chances to succeed. Why are their shortcomings overlooked, but Kaliyev's arent?
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
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Quite a few were worried about this from the start.

Paraphrasing, we said something like the Kings turn out just-a-guys better than damn near anyone in the league, and get extreme value as such late in drafts, but we are concerned about their handling of the first blue chip talents they've gotten.

Fast forward, and theyr'e enamored with turning them into good little checkers, responsible, rather than game breaking offensive players.

I've never seen an organization so preoccupied with turning everyone into the perfect third-liner. Sometimes you're gonna have to let the wild horses run...but these guys are putting smaller and smaller fences around everyone under 23. All we can do now is hope they haven't broken them.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
10,177
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When some of them are struggling, I look to the drafting.

When all of them are struggling, or almost all, you have to look at the management/development.

Exactly. This regime has just consistently failed to produce top flight talent despite drafting high in the first round multiple times.
 
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