Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season Part 2

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/
Status
Not open for further replies.

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,615
16,386
Michigan
Quite a few were worried about this from the start.

Paraphrasing, we said something like the Kings turn out just-a-guys better than damn near anyone in the league, and get extreme value as such late in drafts, but we are concerned about their handling of the first blue chip talents they've gotten.

Fast forward, and theyr'e enamored with turning them into good little checkers, responsible, rather than game breaking offensive players.

I've never seen an organization so preoccupied with turning everyone into the perfect third-liner. Sometimes you're gonna have to let the wild horses run...but these guys are putting smaller and smaller fences around everyone under 23. All we can do now is hope they haven't broken them.

I'm not really sure I agree with the first part. If you go back and reference the QB and Turcotte threads when both were sent to Ontario the response was overwhelmingly positive. The same was true with Bjornfot and Kupari. Even as recently as the end of last season with Helenius. And that was after it brazen apparent the hyper-aggressive AHL usage wasn’t working.

As you know, I am not one to subscribe to the "MMQB" or "Hindsight is 20/20" stuff that Axl and others always say when people are critical of Blake, because for a lot of his decisions as GM there was significant criticism at the time the moves were made. But when it came to the insane AHL usage and poor development choices on those guys it really is MMQB'ing to be critical of it, because at the time almost no one was.
 
Last edited:

Johnny Utah

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
11,098
3,215
Santa Monica, CA
I've been pretty hard on QB, since I believed Stutzle was NHL ready, but I've seen glimpses of something special here. The push back on MacDavid, the hit on Hedman earlier this year, the goal last game. As it took Tage Thompson some time and even our own Adrian Kempe a few years, I will give QB a pass for another 1-2 years, since he is only 20.

The issues I have is lack of size, lack of depth at LHD, too many small RHD, and the 4th line.

Also, too many Moore, Iaffalo, Lizotte type players. They are hindering Kayilev and next year Fagemo getting into the line-up.

The Kings top 8 of 9 forward spot are already taken next year with Kopitar, Kempe, Moore, Danault, Arvidsson, Vilardi, Fialia and Byfield. That leaves on spot on the top line for a winger and as much as I love AI, it can't be him again.

Kings really need a 4th line with a big, gritty center, a player who can scrap and some speed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kingspiracy and bmr

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
Kings fans are very much like single mothers. BLuc have been shoplifting the pootie ever since they took over and pretending to be serious about building a contender.

As fans, we complete them. I don't think they care though. They selfishly bought the time they wanted for themselves and their personal well being with this charade.


I hadn’t heard that in along time. Took seeing the reference downwind to remember. Hahahahah

Quite a few were worried about this from the start.

Paraphrasing, we said something like the Kings turn out just-a-guys better than damn near anyone in the league, and get extreme value as such late in drafts, but we are concerned about their handling of the first blue chip talents they've gotten.

Fast forward, and theyr'e enamored with turning them into good little checkers, responsible, rather than game breaking offensive players.

I've never seen an organization so preoccupied with turning everyone into the perfect third-liner. Sometimes you're gonna have to let the wild horses run...but these guys are putting smaller and smaller fences around everyone under 23. All we can do now is hope they haven't broken them.
Nailed it.
 

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
Redundancy in trying to find the next Justin Williams type player in Iafollo, Arvidson, and Moore. All three of them combined on their best day are still missing the clutch ice water in his veins JDub had.

Blake for the life of me who knows the necessity of an Adam Foote and Or Mattias Norstrom type player won’t draft for one or play one. Instead we get Joe Corvo with less significant brain damage Durzi and Edler who has the footwork of a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!
 
  • Like
Reactions: kinghock

Johnny Utah

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
11,098
3,215
Santa Monica, CA
Edler is done, he's gone, but they need someone his size, but way MEANER.

Durzi, I have a love-hate with most of the fans. He has been terrible in the playoffs, but he has great hands and shot, is a great team player, tough, willing to stick up for teammates, and really is the second best offensive King on D besides Drew. The issue is that he is a Right Shot.

With Doughty, Durzi and Roy - that's three RHD. Where does that leave Walker (who either shifted to the left side, played when guys were hurt, or was scratched) and making 2.75 million with one year left, Spence, Clarke, Grans, etc...
 

The Gabe Blade

Registered User
Jul 9, 2004
4,995
1,613
Until there is a shift in the attitude of ownership, and the Rob/luc show is sent down the river, there will only be bandaids for the roster in the name of “get in the playoffs and anything can happen”.

It’s Dave Taylor 2.0

Thats just not fair to Dave.

Dave Taylor was spending $40 million a year while the Red Wings spent $80 million.
 

Gjwrams

A Know Nothing Fool
Mar 4, 2019
1,875
1,818
In a hard cap world you CANNOT miss on drafting and like most of you, I think they have; certainly in top end, game changers. The way you make up for it is bring in free agents (who are always overpriced) or make trades (exchanging young capital).

For what it's worth. I loved the Fiala trade when it happened and would make it again now, even if Byfield and Turcotte panned out from the start.
 

Schmooley

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
3,198
4,021
Our development staff also needs new faces. Enough with the Kings old timers who are stuck in the 90’s/early 2000’s.
Yea they churn out solid dmen like Mikey and Roy because they have Matt Greene and Odonell down there developing guys to play that style. They have a tougher time with guys that have a dynamic element up front especially.
 

JTeller97

Registered User
Dec 25, 2020
567
909
I've been pretty hard on QB, since I believed Stutzle was NHL ready, but I've seen glimpses of something special here. The push back on MacDavid, the hit on Hedman earlier this year, the goal last game. As it took Tage Thompson some time and even our own Adrian Kempe a few years, I will give QB a pass for another 1-2 years, since he is only 20.

The issues I have is lack of size, lack of depth at LHD, too many small RHD, and the 4th line.

Also, too many Moore, Iaffalo, Lizotte type players. They are hindering Kayilev and next year Fagemo getting into the line-up.

The Kings top 8 of 9 forward spot are already taken next year with Kopitar, Kempe, Moore, Danault, Arvidsson, Vilardi, Fialia and Byfield. That leaves on spot on the top line for a winger and as much as I love AI, it can't be him again.

Kings really need a 4th line with a big, gritty center, a player who can scrap and some speed.
I'd love to go shopping in Winnipeg for either Lowry or PLD we need a culture change at forward
 

LAKings88

Formerly KOTR
Dec 4, 2006
14,067
6,373
Blackhole
The thing about Byfield I never liked as a possible pick was the notion in the back of my head that guys that big in juniors may just have a physical advantage. That said in the end I bought into the hype even as I watched Stutzle dominate the same competition.

Kings made their choice. Is what it is. Gotta help him reach his potential the best they can now.
 
Last edited:

kinghock

Registered User
Feb 1, 2011
3,442
2,754
Mahwah,NJ
Redundancy in trying to find the next Justin Williams type player in Iafollo, Arvidson, and Moore. All three of them combined on their best day are still missing the clutch ice water in his veins JDub had.

Blake for the life of me who knows the necessity of an Adam Foote and Or Mattias Norstrom type player won’t draft for one or play one. Instead we get Joe Corvo with less significant brain damage Durzi and Edler who has the footwork of a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!
I think Bennett from Florida can be poor men Justin Williams.
I would trade Moore or Arvidsson for him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bmr

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
I think Bennett from Florida can be poor men Justin Williams.
I would trade Moore or Arvidsson for him.
There isn’t another Williams was my point…. never will be.

Iafollo on the third line at 1.2 million less AAV would be great. Then again if my grandma had handlebars she would be a bicycle.

If it was me I would take Iafollo, Moore, and Arvidson and pick 2 of them to keep and trade the one with the highest trade value plus another asset for cap room and to possibly get back in the first round and take the best player over 6’2 available
 

Piston

Fire Luc and Blake
Jun 14, 2006
903
1,187
Santa Monica/Salt Lake
I've been pretty hard on QB, since I believed Stutzle was NHL ready, but I've seen glimpses of something special here. The push back on MacDavid, the hit on Hedman earlier this year, the goal last game. As it took Tage Thompson some time and even our own Adrian Kempe a few years, I will give QB a pass for another 1-2 years, since he is only 20.

The issues I have is lack of size, lack of depth at LHD, too many small RHD, and the 4th line.

Also, too many Moore, Iaffalo, Lizotte type players. They are hindering Kayilev and next year Fagemo getting into the line-up.

The Kings top 8 of 9 forward spot are already taken next year with Kopitar, Kempe, Moore, Danault, Arvidsson, Vilardi, Fialia and Byfield. That leaves on spot on the top line for a winger and as much as I love AI, it can't be him again.

Kings really need a 4th line with a big, gritty center, a player who can scrap and some speed.
I Think Kupari can be the guy you are looking for. He's blazing fast and big, he just needs to play with more grit which I've seen signs of. The European players who grow up on the bigger rink take some time to learn how to deliver a big check without taking themselves out of the play. Rasmus is almost there. I hate that TM has so little trust in him- he clearly has more talent than Lizotte yet is never given the ice time he needs to gain confidence.

We are speaking as if the season is over. There still is another game and another one after that if we win. The Oilers are not invincible and are pretty meh after McDavid, Draisaitl and Bouchard. They are not going to win the Cup as currently constructed. Having said that, there needs to be some serious organizational soul searching if we don't advance. I'm with Bland here, if we stay the course this team is headed for the Black hole.
 

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
The thing about Byfield I never liked as a possible pick was the notion in the back of my head that guys that big in juniors may just have a physical advantage. That said in the end I bought into the hype even as I watched Stutzle dominate the same competition.

Kings made their choice. Is what it is. Gotta help him reach his potential the best they can now.
I don’t personally like big guys that don’t play the body and then calling their size an asset. If it comes down to two players I’m picking the guy that plays a game that utilizes every God given talent or attribute he has been given. Your gonna squeeze every little bit out of that player opposed to a guy that is a glass half full.

Byfield imho is always gonna have unrealized potential. He strikes me as a looks like Tarzan plays like Jane kind of guy.

Same goes for Kopitar. Kopitar is an amazing player and a huge guy. Just imagine if every third game he had it in him to just completely roll over someone. He would have so much more room on top of what he already does and so would his teammates. He has the ability to do it now. He just won’t do it. That means he is always withholding something that could be given to win. All he has to do is make the choice to hit someone. He will not give it all for his teammates which is why he isn’t the leader Brown, Greene, Richards, Mitchell, or Scuderi. It’s why if health sent an issue I take Mario over Wayne every day of the week!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Utah

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,546
11,671
Quite a few were worried about this from the start.

Paraphrasing, we said something like the Kings turn out just-a-guys better than damn near anyone in the league, and get extreme value as such late in drafts, but we are concerned about their handling of the first blue chip talents they've gotten.

Fast forward, and theyr'e enamored with turning them into good little checkers, responsible, rather than game breaking offensive players.

I've never seen an organization so preoccupied with turning everyone into the perfect third-liner. Sometimes you're gonna have to let the wild horses run...but these guys are putting smaller and smaller fences around everyone under 23. All we can do now is hope they haven't broken them.
It is interesing, because as a player, Luc Robitaille would have been a complete failure in this type of development system.
 

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
I Think Kupari can be the guy you are looking for. He's blazing fast and big, he just needs to play with more grit which I've seen signs of. The European players who grow up on the bigger rink take some time to learn how to deliver a big check without taking themselves out of the play. Rasmus is almost there. I hate that TM has so little trust in him- he clearly has more talent than Lizotte yet is never given the ice time he needs to gain confidence.

We are speaking as if the season is over. There still is another game and another one after that if we win. The Oilers are not invincible and are pretty meh after McDavid, Draisaitl and Bouchard. They are not going to win the Cup as currently constructed. Having said that, there needs to be some serious organizational soul searching if we don't advance. I'm with Bland here, if we stay the course this team is headed for the Black hole.
I love Kupari he just needs to give into being that guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bmr and dman3474

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,546
11,671
I don’t personally like big guys that don’t play the body and then calling their size an asset. If it comes down to two players I’m picking the guy that plays a game that utilizes every God given talent or attribute he has been given. Your gonna squeeze every little bit out of that player opposed to a guy that is a glass half full.

Byfield imho is always gonna have unrealized potential. He strikes me as a looks like Tarzan plays like Jane kind of guy.

Same goes for Kopitar. Kopitar is an amazing player and a huge guy. Just imagine if every third game had he it in him to just completely roll over someone. He would have so much more room on top of what he already does and so would his teammates. He has the ability to do it now. He just won’t do it. That means he is always withholding something that could be given to win. All he has to do is make the choice to hit someone. He will not give it all for his teammates which is why he isn’t the leader Brown, Greene, Richards, Mitchell, or Scuderi. It’s why if health sent an issue I take Mario over Wayne every day of the week!
Hmm, would you consider Kopitar to be a physical player? Does he not use his size to his advantage?
 

bmr

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
1,881
1,705
That’s just not true, though, and not even logically consistent. If good players required no conscious development or nurturing, there wouldn’t be development programs at all.

Moreover, just look at what our TMac did with Draisaitl when he was coaching in Edmonton.

Sometimes it’s the player, sure. And sometimes it’s management.
I agree with you on that. All i'm saying is that all players are various times in their career will have different coaches/trainers/systems/scenarios/etc.. They will hopefully take a piece of knowledge from each experience and apply that to their career. Granted, some teams are a lot worse than others at this and there are different schools of thought on the best development path for certain players.
 

bmr

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
1,881
1,705
Why did QB have to marinate in the AHL? The vast majority of players taken in the Top 3 never see AHL time, are you just of the opinion that QB is one of the worst players to be taken in the Top 3 over the past 2-3 decades? I mean he could be based on early returns, but if that is the case then why did the Kings take the next step in their rebuild? And does Blake who was supposedly the ultimate deciding factor in taking QB over a player who is a budding superstar deserve any of the blame for that?

And I don't disagree that most responsibility falls on the player, and I agree the truly elite ones would overcome poor choices. Had Dave Taylor put Kopitar in the AHL at 18 or Dean had sent Doughty back to junior, its likely they are still elite NHL stars. And I'm not sitting here saying that had Byfield and Turcotte been handled in ways that have been traditionally successful that they would be Malkin and Toews, they aren't at the same level as those guys, or of AK and Drew, but it's very unlikely it is this historically bad (and that's not hyperbole, it's historically bad for both Top 5 picks). For players of that caliber the development choices absolutely do matter a lot in reaching potential and the poor ones Blake has made have undoubtedly caused damage to the players. If QB has an NHL season in a low pressure situation next to Carter and has 60 more games than he has right now, it's way more likely he is at least a competent Top 6-9 player for the Kings. If Turcotte had a 2nd season in college, getting bigger and getting more confident in all 3 zones it's very likely he is at least capable of centering a 4th line right now. Neither of those things are a reality right now for either guy, and it's fair to say the wasted season in the AHL for both is a big reason why.

As far as Kaliyev, the thing is, he's never going to be a complete player. He is an offensive zone player who has an elite high-end skill in shooting the puck and flaws in other areas. The Kings knew this when they drafted him with a high pick in the 2nd round. When you take a player like you have to know that the only way he becomes successful is in a role where his talent can be maximized, which is playing in a scoring line role, preferably with a player who can get him the puck and minimize his shortcomings. It's the same thing with Montreal who took Caufield with an even higher pick in that draft. They did the usual two years in college routine and immediately added him to their roster (on a team that made the final!), and put him in a position to succeed, and he scored some massive goals for them in their run to the finals (while his shortcomings were highlighted by many here for some reason). Contrast that with the Kings, who since Kaliyev was drafted have traded one of their elite prospects and a 1st for a scoring winger in Fiala, traded picks for another scoring winger in VA, signed Moore and Iafallo to extensions, and moved two of their failing center picks to the wing.

If you aren't willing to give the player that type of chance that Montreal gabe Caufield, either don't draft a player like that (take another center who can't score for the 858th time) or trade him for help in areas you need it LHD or (shockingly) C. The way guys like Kaliyev and Bjornfot have been managed is criminal, if you don't like them anymore as players, that is fine, but trade them to improve other areas, don't let their value plummet. And that is the case, both players are way less valuable now than they were after last season ended.

Again I just don't know why defensive shortcomings or lack of physicality is a reason for a player with an elite offensive skill to not be given a chance or criticized by some around here while players like Kupari, Turcotte and JAD who couldn't score on a soccer goal are praised or given chances to succeed. Why are their shortcomings overlooked, but Kaliyev's arent?
I agree with most of what you are saying. With QB, I think you can definitely see the lack of seasoning in certain aspects of his game even though he has a much higher ceiling (which I believe is the reason we drafted him). I think there were times when he did play with the Kings early on when he looked completely lost out there. Toffoli/Pearson/Martinez/Voynov/etc.. all took their time in the AHL before coming to the NHL. I get what you're saying about most top 3 picks going straight to the NHL, but in my opinion the Kings didn't botch the development path with him.
 

bmr

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
1,881
1,705
There isn’t another Williams was my point…. never will be.

Iafollo on the third line at 1.2 million less AAV would be great. Then again if my grandma had handlebars she would be a bicycle.

If it was me I would take Iafollo, Moore, and Arvidson and pick 2 of them to keep and trade the one with the highest trade value plus another asset for cap room and to possibly get back in the first round and take the best player over 6’2 available
It's really tough for me to decide between Iafallo, Moore and Arvidsson. I see all 3 of those guys as extremely useful to the team. I think Arvidsson has the highest offensive upside but the worst defense. They've all been good in the playoffs. If we could add a guy like Bennett, then I could see dropping one of them. The thing that really hurts us is Doughty's contract.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kinghock

SaltyElkHunter

I …. am…. The LA Kings!
Apr 24, 2019
3,243
3,176
Utah
It's really tough for me to decide between Iafallo, Moore and Arvidsson. I see all 3 of those guys as extremely useful to the team. I think Arvidsson has the highest offensive upside but the worst defense. They've all been good in the playoffs. If we could add a guy like Bennett, then I could see dropping one of them. The thing that really hurts us is Doughty's contract.
Love those guys but also got to have a defense lol. Shame Cal is what he is because that could have let us keep all 3 for a run. I think Moore has been hurt all year. He just doesn’t have that extra gear this year.
 

Nasti

Registered User
Jan 30, 2006
4,412
5,969
Long Beach, CA
Why did QB have to marinate in the AHL? The vast majority of players taken in the Top 3 never see AHL time, are you just of the opinion that QB is one of the worst players to be taken in the Top 3 over the past 2-3 decades? I mean he could be based on early returns, but if that is the case then why did the Kings take the next step in their rebuild? And does Blake who was supposedly the ultimate deciding factor in taking QB over a player who is a budding superstar deserve any of the blame for that?

And I don't disagree that most responsibility falls on the player, and I agree the truly elite ones would overcome poor choices. Had Dave Taylor put Kopitar in the AHL at 18 or Dean had sent Doughty back to junior, its likely they are still elite NHL stars. And I'm not sitting here saying that had Byfield and Turcotte been handled in ways that have been traditionally successful that they would be Malkin and Toews, they aren't at the same level as those guys, or of AK and Drew, but it's very unlikely it is this historically bad (and that's not hyperbole, it's historically bad for both Top 5 picks). For players of that caliber the development choices absolutely do matter a lot in reaching potential and the poor ones Blake has made have undoubtedly caused damage to the players. If QB has an NHL season in a low pressure situation next to Carter and has 60 more games than he has right now, it's way more likely he is at least a competent Top 6-9 player for the Kings. If Turcotte had a 2nd season in college, getting bigger and getting more confident in all 3 zones it's very likely he is at least capable of centering a 4th line right now. Neither of those things are a reality right now for either guy, and it's fair to say the wasted season in the AHL for both is a big reason why.

As far as Kaliyev, the thing is, he's never going to be a complete player. He is an offensive zone player who has an elite high-end skill in shooting the puck and flaws in other areas. The Kings knew this when they drafted him with a high pick in the 2nd round. When you take a player like you have to know that the only way he becomes successful is in a role where his talent can be maximized, which is playing in a scoring line role, preferably with a player who can get him the puck and minimize his shortcomings. It's the same thing with Montreal who took Caufield with an even higher pick in that draft. They did the usual two years in college routine and immediately added him to their roster (on a team that made the final!), and put him in a position to succeed, and he scored some massive goals for them in their run to the finals (while his shortcomings were highlighted by many here for some reason). Contrast that with the Kings, who since Kaliyev was drafted have traded one of their elite prospects and a 1st for a scoring winger in Fiala, traded picks for another scoring winger in VA, signed Moore and Iafallo to extensions, and moved two of their failing center picks to the wing.

If you aren't willing to give the player that type of chance that Montreal gabe Caufield, either don't draft a player like that (take another center who can't score for the 858th time) or trade him for help in areas you need it LHD or (shockingly) C. The way guys like Kaliyev and Bjornfot have been managed is criminal, if you don't like them anymore as players, that is fine, but trade them to improve other areas, don't let their value plummet. And that is the case, both players are way less valuable now than they were after last season ended.

Again I just don't know why defensive shortcomings or lack of physicality is a reason for a player with an elite offensive skill to not be given a chance or criticized by some around here while players like Kupari, Turcotte and JAD who couldn't score on a soccer goal are praised or given chances to succeed. Why are their shortcomings overlooked, but Kaliyev's arent?
What you’re saying may be true, but I think the Kings are going to look at Kempe and Vilardi having breakout seasons back to back and say what they’re doing works. Sure it might take 5-7 years but I don’t think they’re seeing any of this as a problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad