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LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

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Fishhead said:
Absolutely. But how many teams develop a number 1 center like Kopitar? Not to mention a Norris winner and a world-class goalie within a few years of each other? Very few. I'm sure the team's point of view is that they are better off trying to win with a Kopitar and Doughty in their 30's rather than trying to develop one. And you know what, they probably aren't wrong. It's difficult to win in the NHL.

Waiting for guys like Clarke and Byfield to develop into the top players needed to win a cup is a viable strategy, but are the odds as good as what they've done now? Impossible to say, but Doughty and Kopitar were obvious all-stars right off the bat while Clarke and Byfield have never been near that level as of yet.

I don't think it's a lack of patience, it's just a realistic view of how hard it is to draft and develop a great core like they did in the 2000's and how low the odds are of that happening again. We were spoiled by that and it's easy to say "Just do the same thing again", but if it was simple every team in the league would do it.

The odds of winning a cup are low regardless of which path they took, which led to their current decisions. Right or wrong, they have a really strong roster that can match up with anyone.
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If we‘re talking odds, teams are far more likely to win cups when developing their own top center. Going all the way back to the 2005 lockout, only Vegas and St Louis didn’t do that. As you said, it’s already hard to win the cup so you might as well take the most likely path, no?
 
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KingsFan7824 said:
Internally developed? Kopitar spent an extra year in Sweden, and then was clearly good enough to play the most minutes at forward right away. He was considered a ready made guy the day he was drafted though. Nothing even close to what Byfield looked like at the same age. I know he fell in the draft, but he was a coach's son, strapping young lad, playing against men in Sweden, blah, blah, blah. Him and Doughty were already ready to play. If there was development, it was at the NHL, on a team that wasn't trying to win. For good or bad, the last rebuild was not about those prospects. It was about adding some assets to do what they've done with the roster.

A crippling trade. Hyperbole doesn't prove your point here. 30 games into the trade, they're tied for 2nd overall. The trade hasn't bruised them yet, let alone crippled them.
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How the team handles young talent while they’re on the big club is part of the development. There is a massive difference between how the current team handles youth vs how the 2006-2010 Kings did.
 
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Nasti said:
How the team handles young talent while they’re on the big club is part of the development. There is a massive difference between how the current team handles youth vs how the 2006-2010 Kings did.
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100% there were massive differences.....what else do you think was massively different?
 
Kings have 18 games in the next 34 days - which is an avg of more than a game ever other day. Fun for us, not so much for their legs. Prob see the backup goalie a bit more than usual - i would hope.
 
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Nasti said:
If we‘re talking odds, teams are far more likely to win cups when developing their own top center. Going all the way back to the 2005 lockout, only Vegas and St Louis didn’t do that. As you said, it’s already hard to win the cup so you might as well take the most likely path, no?
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Provided you make the right picks, absolutely. I don't think the Kings did that. They have Byfield who is a great wing, Clarke who hasn't broken in yet, and Turcotte who might never be a NHL regular. Faber will be a good one too, but not enough to tip the balance. Same thing with Vilardi. As time goes on I think it's getting more obvious that the Kings did OK with their drafts but didn't hit it out of the park.

It was completely obvious what they had with Kopitar and Doughty. Same with Colorado and Makar/MacKinnon/Landeskog. And with Keith/Towes/Kane. Throw in Pittsburgh and Tampa and that's what, 5 teams in the last 15 years? That's a very low percentage.

So I get why they think it's a better shot to go with what they have already than try to catch lightning in a bottle again.
 
Fishhead said:
The odds are just really low.
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They certainly are, but it's been the only way to truly build a team that lasts. It's not a coincidence that pretty much every team that's won has gotten their main guys through the draft and have succeeded when they were younger.

The Kings are trying to take the Vegas route by just plugging guys in and hoping they catch lightning. It's happened once in the past two decades (probably longer really) and the team that did it had a bunch of GM's that were so clueless handing them quality guys that the next team in their situation couldn't get ANY traction trying to do the same thing. It's a strategy built on hope and desperation and that's basically this orgs management ideas in a nutshell. As soon as a person is available, they jump to get him. Coaches and players alike. There's no vision. It's just new toys and shiny objects.
 
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AbsentMojo said:
Kings have 18 games in the next 34 days - which is an avg of more than a game ever other day. Fun for us, not so much for their legs. Prob see the backup goalie a bit more than usual - i would hope.
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Kings are going to have to make good use of the full 23 man roster......err, 22 man roster....wait I mean 21 man roster?
 
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SmytheKing said:
They certainly are, but it's been the only way to truly build a team that lasts. It's not a coincidence that pretty much every team that's won has gotten their main guys through the draft and have succeeded when they were younger.

The Kings are trying to take the Vegas route by just plugging guys in and hoping they catch lightning. It's happened once in the past two decades (probably longer really) and the team that did it had a bunch of GM's that were so clueless handing them quality guys that the next team in their situation couldn't get ANY traction trying to do the same thing. It's a strategy built on hope and desperation and that's basically this orgs management ideas in a nutshell. As soon as a person is available, they jump to get him. Coaches and players alike. There's no vision. It's just new toys and shiny objects.
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It also takes a long time to win cups the other way, too, can be decades as well. A lot of things need to fall into place. I agree the best way is through the draft, but what if instead of great drafts you have very good ones? What if the caliber of players just isn't there when you are sucking? What do you do?

There have been several recent teams who won a cup who weren't built to last. When Washington won that was the first time they've been past the 2nd round with Ovie, and none of their key guys were young. That's 13 years with an absolute monster of a generational player, with a decent supporting cast. The Blues were lead by O'Reilly, Schenn, and Bozak down the middle - none of whom they drafted. They weren't that young either. By the nature of expansion, Vegas was just a mercenary jumble. I would say Tampa and Colorado were built completely from within.

So while I don't completely agree with how the Kings have handled things, I don't think that sucking and drafting would somehow lead to guaranteed better success. Had we sucked at the right time and picked up a Bedard, sure, but we didn't. Having high picks around COVID was probably the worst possible time to have them. And I think there is some precedence with half of the last 6 cup winners not following the traditional models for success. It's why I don't stress about it too much and just try to enjoy the success and the shot they have this year.

Raccoon Jesus said:
kind ofa tangent from above but why are these guys allergic to recouping assets too?

We have umpteen waiver-eligible RFAs coming up, why not sling them for additional assets if you're not going to play them? Now theyr'e a depreciating asset.

That's not how you keep a window open.
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This is the most glaring issue management has, in my opinion. If you are never planning on using guys like Fagemo, Thomas, etc., flip them. Getting quality guys in the 3rd round and on isn't common, but even getting later picks in quantity can be helpful. They just take too long to make decisions.
 
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From the GDT, didn't want to derail too far, but trade deadline thoughts:

bland said:
Honestly, if I had to pick out one singular thing that has really impressed me this year, its Todd McLellan.

Its always fun to live in the moment and appreciate and decry the things that get to us, but after obsessing on this team since 77 and the exhale of the Cup wins, I find it so much more satisfying to focus on the big picture. McLellan has made some decisions this year that I (we?) had really hoped he would have made in prior seasons. Not just the Fiala thing last night, but the approach to the game is markedly more assertive now. You don't necessarily see that stuff in real time, its more apparent over a period of time.

I still think they will ultimately age out before the end of round 2. Maybe that's one of the reasons I want to see them deal Roy in time to use the cap to maybe add an impact physical rental winger and a goalie, just to mix in a new ingredient to the team at the right time.
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If this is the all-in year, Kings have a ton of trade chips. no 2nd/3rd, but a 1st and a 4th rd pick. I don't think they'll deal Roy, but they could. Then a million kids in Ontario, and guys whose future w the team may be up in the air if they do land someone/desire someone else in their spot.


Off the roster,
1st, 4th, late picks
Turcotte, Fagemo, Thomas, Madden, Chromiak, Pinelli, and younger etc.
Clarke/Spence

Tweeners: JAD, Toby, Moverare.

On the roster:
I wouldn't do it but int he right move I could see Roy, Kaliyev, Spence. And of course UFAs like Arvidsson.


But who realistically is available? just looking at teams out of the race:

Henrique
Silfverberg
Max Jones
Gibson?

Granlund
Hoffman
Labanc
Duclair
Kunin
Barabanov ... all of these are UFAs! Who are the sharks going to ice next year?
Blackwood

Tarasenko
Kubalik

Monahan
Tanner Pearson
Jake Allen
Savard

Roslovic

Tyler Johnson
Beauvillier
Nick Foligno
Jason Dickinson

Erik Johnson
Olofsson
Okposo
Jost

Eberle
Wennberg
Tatar



Borderline teams, of course, have more intersting parts
Guentzel is a UFA, that could get interesting
Nedjelkovic
Reilly Smith

If Cal stays out, Elias Lindholm and most of their Dmen would get a killing with the slim D market

I mean, for the Kings, no one on that list really excites me beyond Foligno or Tarasenko. Monahan, Henrique, Granlund may be interesting for teams with lesser C depth.

Are we going to see like a Kaliyev for Foligno? Or does Blake lose his absolute mind and do like Turcotte/Clarke/1st for Lindholm/Hanifin.

It's tough because if you don't get better, others will--but I do really like the team we already have should they perform to expectations.
 
When Arvidsson comes back (possibly February?) Blake will have to move some money to make the cap work, I think (and someone correct me if I am wrong) around 1 million that has to go down or out. That is more than just sending Laferriere down, it's probably waiving JAD too. Then we are right at the cap again and no room for extra players.

Maybe they try to move Grundstrom? How much will he want on his next deal, and will he be worth it?

While they have cap space, I wouldn't mind seeing Clarke brought up for a game or two. Spence has been fine, and I wouldn't want to take him out so I would possibly try to roll him and Roy as a pair and Gavrikov and Clarke as a pair. They could put Gavrikov/Roy out as the situation calls for it, but at least we would get to see what Clarke could do and send him and Spence back and forth to the AHL.
 
I mean yeah I think they have to be waiting on injuries knock on wood but it's bonkers that Turcotte and Clarke haven't at least gotten a skate. Gonna get to the deadline and not know what they have unless they Jack Johnson/Voynov someone but this org seems too conservative for that
 
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dman3474 said:
When Arvidsson comes back (possibly February?) Blake will have to move some money to make the cap work, I think (and someone correct me if I am wrong) around 1 million that has to go down or out. That is more than just sending Laferriere down, it's probably waiving JAD too. Then we are right at the cap again and no room for extra players.

Maybe they try to move Grundstrom? How much will he want on his next deal, and will he be worth it?

While they have cap space, I wouldn't mind seeing Clarke brought up for a game or two. Spence has been fine, and I wouldn't want to take him out so I would possibly try to roll him and Roy as a pair and Gavrikov and Clarke as a pair. They could put Gavrikov/Roy out as the situation calls for it, but at least we would get to see what Clarke could do and send him and Spence back and forth to the AHL.
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Doesn't look like he will have to do anything, if there are no moves made, per cap friendly, they would have $1,900.00 yes that's $1900 in cap space available
 
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Little Psycho said:
DD was way better on the pp on the start of the season, now everyone looks like crap on it
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When was the last time you were excited that DD had the puck on his stick? I guess it all depends on how easily excitable you are, but you get my point.. He's a solid top pair stay at home defenseman. Maybe shouldnt play any special teams at this point.
 
My new years predictions

-this team is in a wild card spot by the end of january
-kaliyev is traded for pennies on the dollar, the 1st and another significant asset are traded at the deadline for a depth winger
-after we win the first game in the playoffs and lose 4 of the next 5, it'll be sold as oh well we got an unfortunate draw

These guys have done what they've done with just about full health and one of the most favorable travel/rest schedules in the league and they still can't win at home or beat playoff teams. They need the most favorable game conditions possible to win games. January is gonna expose these frauds vs playoff teams night after night and the excuse will be oh but tough teams and travel as if no other teams in the league face any adversity ever.

Ok, back into the shadows
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
My new years predictions

-this team is in a wild card spot by the end of january
-kaliyev is traded for pennies on the dollar, the 1st and another significant asset are traded at the deadline for a depth winger
-after we win the first game in the playoffs and lose 4 of the next 5, it'll be sold as oh well we got an unfortunate draw

These guys have done what they've done with just about full health and one of the most favorable travel/rest schedules in the league and they still can't win at home or beat playoff teams. They need the most favorable game conditions possible to win games. January is gonna expose these frauds vs playoff teams night after night and the excuse will be oh but tough teams and travel as if no other teams in the league face any adversity ever.

Ok, back into the shadows
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It’s a good thing then that we’re on pace for 120 points season. We actually have a little bit of time to figure this thing out.

We also have one of the best defenseman prospects in the NHL that should be able to walk into the lineup and a top six winger that should be added for free at the trade deadline.

I know people are pissed off about last nights loss of the wailers, but we held two of the best players in the NHL to two points. I would say the team to two points but those two are the whole team 90% of the time our guys should put up more than two goals and 65 minutes for the win

Our top two lines are OK as our top two D man pairings. I actually like our number seven defenseman as well in Moverare. Our goalies believe it or not seem to be standing up to the test.

My concern right now is our bottom six led by PLD. I’m also a bit concerned about our bottom defensive pairing, but we also have the option of throwing up in Spence spot.

My biggest fix, however, would would be our bottom six. I know people are upset with PLD, but I’m a firm believer that you put somebody offensive with him, it will stop him from trying to do too much on his own and he is a shooter. I am in the minority of people that think Arvidsson will mesh very well with him but I definitely do not like Kaliyev on that line. I like what I am seeing from Laf but I don’t think we can count on a whole Lotta offense out of him. At this point, he’s a poor man’s Iafallo.

I mentioned last night to go out and try and get a Crouse. I would definitely overpay to try. If Roy and Kaliyev are part of the package so be it.

I don’t want a pugilist but I want a little more sandpaper.

Little Psycho said:
In more non surprising news; Turcotte is injured once again with lower body injury. It’s day to day but I think the kid should hang up his skates. It’s very unfortunate but if he can’t remain healthy in the AHL then he’ll definitely get killed in the NHL. This sport isn’t worth risking his health/life.
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Could be groin tightness from not skating in a bit then going balls to the wall. Fingers crossed
 
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